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The costs of PVP is too much for new players
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Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#261 - 2014-09-04 11:01:46 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
^^ If you're involved in a 1v1 you make it a 2v1. The only fair fights are the ones you win.


I fought a 2v1 just the other day...

Nearly got both of them.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Grog Aftermath
Doomheim
#262 - 2014-09-04 11:24:58 UTC
Reading through some of these posts, gives me the impression that a lot of people answering don't really have a clue about being a new character these days, with no mains to send isk and no PLEX to sell.

It can take weeks just to get enough for a set of +3 implants. Also consider that most new characters (not alts) are in NPC corps and level 1 missions don't pay much and you can't really consider mining as a way of making money as you would be learning the wrong skill sets as it's PvP we're talking about here. Of course you could argue join a player corp, but the fact is at the start a lot are just finding their feet, plus most corps. won't want them anyway as they don't meet the sp requirement or could be spy alts.

I've started characters through the years which have no boosts from other characters and the best time I remember was when salvage was new, as salvage was expensive and you could make good isk.

PvP is expensive in general, if it wasn't then many of you wouldn't need alt accounts just so that you could raise the funds to be able to afford to PvP. Which we hear people saying on this form many times over the years.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#263 - 2014-09-04 11:41:10 UTC
Grog Aftermath wrote:

It can take weeks just to get enough for a set of +3 implants.

One day of blitzing level 2 missions in a basic cruiser.

Grog Aftermath wrote:

Also consider that most new characters (not alts) are in NPC corps and level 1 missions don't pay much and you can't really consider mining as a way of making money as you would be learning the wrong skill sets as it's PvP we're talking about here. Of course you could argue join a player corp, but the fact is at the start a lot are just finding their feet, plus most corps. won't want them anyway as they don't meet the sp requirement or could be spy alts.


We love our newbees

Grog Aftermath wrote:

PvP is expensive in general, if it wasn't then many of you wouldn't need alt accounts just so that you could raise the funds to be able to afford to PvP. Which we hear people saying on this form many times over the years.


We pvp in 300 to 100 billion isk ships. Newbees pvp in 1.3 mil ships.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#264 - 2014-09-04 11:44:23 UTC
Oh, great good God, it does NOT take "weeks" to afford +3s.

That is just a blatant falsehood.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Grog Aftermath
Doomheim
#265 - 2014-09-04 11:52:30 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Grog Aftermath wrote:

It can take weeks just to get enough for a set of +3 implants.

One day of blitzing level 2 missions in a basic cruiser.

Grog Aftermath wrote:

Also consider that most new characters (not alts) are in NPC corps and level 1 missions don't pay much and you can't really consider mining as a way of making money as you would be learning the wrong skill sets as it's PvP we're talking about here. Of course you could argue join a player corp, but the fact is at the start a lot are just finding their feet, plus most corps. won't want them anyway as they don't meet the sp requirement or could be spy alts.


We love our newbees

Grog Aftermath wrote:

PvP is expensive in general, if it wasn't then many of you wouldn't need alt accounts just so that you could raise the funds to be able to afford to PvP. Which we hear people saying on this form many times over the years.


We pvp in 300 to 100 billion isk ships. Newbees pvp in 1.3 mil ships.



I wouldn't say your corp. is typical of most.


Also blitzing level 2's won't happens until you've done further train, you can't do them with the basic starter skill set. Anyway I doubt even blitzing level 2's would raise enough in one day. missioning ALL day, one way to get completely bored with the game.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#266 - 2014-09-04 11:59:07 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Grog Aftermath wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Grog Aftermath wrote:

It can take weeks just to get enough for a set of +3 implants.

One day of blitzing level 2 missions in a basic cruiser.

Grog Aftermath wrote:

Also consider that most new characters (not alts) are in NPC corps and level 1 missions don't pay much and you can't really consider mining as a way of making money as you would be learning the wrong skill sets as it's PvP we're talking about here. Of course you could argue join a player corp, but the fact is at the start a lot are just finding their feet, plus most corps. won't want them anyway as they don't meet the sp requirement or could be spy alts.


We love our newbees

Grog Aftermath wrote:

PvP is expensive in general, if it wasn't then many of you wouldn't need alt accounts just so that you could raise the funds to be able to afford to PvP. Which we hear people saying on this form many times over the years.


We pvp in 300 to 100 billion isk ships. Newbees pvp in 1.3 mil ships.



I wouldn't say your corp. is typical of most.


Also blitzing level 2's won't happens until you've done further train, you can't do them with the basic starter skill set. Anyway I doubt even blitzing level 2's would raise enough in one day. missioning ALL day, one way to get completely bored with the game.


My alt was blitzing level 2s 5 days after birth. I bought a full set of low grade warp speed implants after a week of blitzing level 2s (back when they cost 1.2 billion). Because of this thread I will be starting up a new pvp alt soon.
Grog Aftermath
Doomheim
#267 - 2014-09-04 12:09:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Grog Aftermath
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Oh, great good God, it does NOT take "weeks" to afford +3s.

That is just a blatant falsehood.



That's from a character, from day 1, obviously the older the character the quicker it is to get isk.

If you go the PLEX route on day 1, you could fit them the same day or at least day 2 as you would need to do the training missions to raise enough to be able to sell one PLEX on the market.

Maybe some of you guys should try it.
NPC corp., solo no additional funds from mains/alts or PLEX.
Edit: Even if you do this keep in mind that you still have one advantage over new people, you already know how to play the game.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#268 - 2014-09-04 12:12:39 UTC
Grog Aftermath wrote:

Maybe some of you guys should try it.


You say, to the guy with eleven active characters.

Yes, I have tried it, and I know people who have as well. It does not take "weeks".

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#269 - 2014-09-04 12:13:51 UTC
Grog Aftermath wrote:

PvP is expensive in general, if it wasn't then many of you wouldn't need alt accounts just so that you could raise the funds to be able to afford to PvP. Which we hear people saying on this form many times over the years.


Alt accounts aren't about expense, they are about convenience . When I had just the one account I had to jump or death clone back to my alliance's space to make isk when nothing was going on, and sure as **** as soon as I did, something would start going on lol. That's where this character was born and I eventually sold my actual 1st character and just made another character for pvp.

Alts usually don't bring in any extra isk that you'd not get otherwise except for those people who do the isboxer thing, they just make the game a lot less tedious.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#270 - 2014-09-04 12:23:46 UTC
I disagree on one point there Jenn.

That being that alts don't make isk. Trading alts rake that in, even if you suck at it like me.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Grog Aftermath
Doomheim
#271 - 2014-09-04 12:24:15 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Grog Aftermath wrote:

Maybe some of you guys should try it.


You say, to the guy with eleven active characters.

Yes, I have tried it, and I know people who have as well. It does not take "weeks".



Chances are you didn't start from scratch on those alts, why would you as your main could give them funds so that they could progress much faster.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#272 - 2014-09-04 12:25:59 UTC
Grog Aftermath wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Grog Aftermath wrote:

Maybe some of you guys should try it.


You say, to the guy with eleven active characters.

Yes, I have tried it, and I know people who have as well. It does not take "weeks".



Chances are you didn't start from scratch on those alts, why would you as your main could give them funds so that they could progress much faster.


Why? Because it's funny, and because it's handy to have to contradict people who try and use the supposed plight of new players to benefit themselves.

Nevermind that, as I have mentioned, friends of mine have done it too. I had one guy be decked out in a full set of +4s by the end of a single month.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#273 - 2014-09-04 12:28:24 UTC
You do realize that pretty much every single thing I do in this game is:

For amusement.

From boredom.

Or out of spite.

I basically don't do anything else. "For the lulz" is my major motivation to play this game at all.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
TharOkha
0asis Group
#274 - 2014-09-04 12:53:34 UTC  |  Edited by: TharOkha
Otuk Andven wrote:

Its a well known fact that pvp cost money, an average t1 frigate is going to set you back about 10m ISK depending on fittings


Dude, you can fit a decent rifter for 1M.(fit named modules instead of T2)

Try to join public PvP roams like RvB ganked, Spectre fleet (or bombers bar for bomber fun). There you will learn that PvP can be so ridiculously cheap that even grinding L3 missions can pay your PvP bills Blink

Good luck

CODE. Venture hunt contest in a nutshell
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#275 - 2014-09-04 12:58:31 UTC
Also;

the title should read "Costs of PVP ARE"

OR

"Cost of PVP is"

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#276 - 2014-09-04 12:59:55 UTC
Grog Aftermath wrote:
Even if you do this keep in mind that you still have one advantage over new people, you already know how to play the game.


Experienced player at advantage over new player shock.

This of course never happens in any other game.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Petre en Thielles
Doomheim
#277 - 2014-09-04 14:00:35 UTC
Grog Aftermath wrote:
Reading through some of these posts, gives me the impression that a lot of people answering don't really have a clue about being a new character these days, with no mains to send isk and no PLEX to sell.

It can take weeks just to get enough for a set of +3 implants. Also consider that most new characters (not alts) are in NPC corps and level 1 missions don't pay much and you can't really consider mining as a way of making money as you would be learning the wrong skill sets as it's PvP we're talking about here. Of course you could argue join a player corp, but the fact is at the start a lot are just finding their feet, plus most corps. won't want them anyway as they don't meet the sp requirement or could be spy alts.

I've started characters through the years which have no boosts from other characters and the best time I remember was when salvage was new, as salvage was expensive and you could make good isk.

PvP is expensive in general, if it wasn't then many of you wouldn't need alt accounts just so that you could raise the funds to be able to afford to PvP. Which we hear people saying on this form many times over the years.


This flat-out isn't true. I am about a year into the game, and I was earning hundreds of millions of ISK my first month in. The biggest problem people like you have is that you try to play solo. I joined a nullsec corp a month into the game and did nothing but scout/set up tacticals/tackle in fleets. I was given hundreds of millions of ISK plus any ships I needed for free by the alliance simply because I was helping out.

Hell, you can run the lower level nullsec anomalies in a low skilled battlecruiser, if you know how to kite/fly without blindly hitting orbit.

If you as a newbie undock and get into lowsec/nullsec, you will make plenty of ISK. I just started a new alt who was blown up by a pirate in lowsec 2 days into the game. I told him I was brand new and got bored with missions, he gave me 25 m for being 'the right kind of new player'.

Get creative, stop mining/missioning in high sec and you will make a lot of ISK as a new player.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#278 - 2014-09-04 14:35:03 UTC
TharOkha wrote:
Otuk Andven wrote:

Its a well known fact that pvp cost money, an average t1 frigate is going to set you back about 10m ISK depending on fittings


Dude, you can fit a decent rifter for 1M.(fit named modules instead of T2)

Try to join public PvP roams like RvB ganked, Spectre fleet (or bombers bar for bomber fun). There you will learn that PvP can be so ridiculously cheap that even grinding L3 missions can pay your PvP bills Blink

Good luck


I fund my love for Megathrons on lvl 3 missionsBlink
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#279 - 2014-09-04 14:40:20 UTC
Since this thread is still going on and most people can't be arsed to reat 14 page I'll restate: pvp" is cheaper now than at any point in EVE's history AND it's easier to make isk and faster to skill up to things that can make isk that at any point. That's the bottom line.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#280 - 2014-09-04 14:44:18 UTC
Grog Aftermath wrote:
Maybe some of you guys should try it.
NPC corp., solo no additional funds from mains/alts or PLEX.
You understand, I hope, that we've pretty much all tried it. It was part of what led us to still be here today…

And as Jenn points out, many of us did it when things were far more expensive and ISK was a fair bit harder to come by.