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Low Sec FW Meetings

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Thanatos Marathon
Moira.
#181 - 2014-08-29 03:37:19 UTC
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#182 - 2014-08-29 16:47:00 UTC
I have removed a rule breaking post and those quoting it.

The Rules:
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#183 - 2014-08-29 17:15:43 UTC  |  Edited by: chatgris
X Gallentius wrote:
Back on topic: Militia level contracts will solve every problem with FW! (ok, not every problem, but most of them for me personally :) )


You have violated rule #1 when evaluating a FW related change: "What would the PERVS do to exploit this mechanic".

They would put alts in the militia and scoop up contracts.

The best solution IMO is something more generic: Standings limited contracts, much like how fleets work. Contracts could be made to

corp
alliance
militia
standings level
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#184 - 2014-08-29 17:17:43 UTC
chatgris wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Back on topic: Militia level contracts will solve every problem with FW! (ok, not every problem, but most of them for me personally :) )

good stuff

Agreed, there should be a "Contracts available to List" feature like they do with comms channels and mailing lists.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#185 - 2014-09-02 23:03:03 UTC
Vary plex difficulty up a bit. Make it affected by the upgrade level of the system as well as the overall militia tier level. The more systems the NPC militia navy has to cover the more spread out they are... Just some thoughts.
Subsparx
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#186 - 2014-09-03 19:14:52 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
Vary plex difficulty up a bit. Make it affected by the upgrade level of the system as well as the overall militia tier level. The more systems the NPC militia navy has to cover the more spread out they are... Just some thoughts.


I think this is a great change. The upgrade level of a system right now doesn't actually cause any changes to the actual combat or contestion level of a system. This could be modified in multiple ways. You could have it have changes to the required victory points required to flip, similar to the dust modifier. You could also have upgrade level effect tank of the NPC's, meaning that sieging a level 5 system may very well become incredibly difficult with just a single person in each plex. I'd be all for either option, and it would give far more interesting implications to leveling up stronghold systems than just bumping tier and a few other industry-related changes that most people don't notice.

CEO of Crimson Serpent Syndicate - www.crimsonserpent.com

Chairman of Heiian Conglomerate - www.heiian.com

Owner of FWC - www.factionwarfare.com

Master Sergeant MacRobert
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#187 - 2014-09-03 20:16:41 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
acceptable. do you like to receive big spergy mails as well?


How about some public ideas?

"Remedy this situation or you shall live out the rest of your life in a pain amplifier"

Master Sergeant MacRobert
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#188 - 2014-09-03 20:36:31 UTC
Samwise Everquest wrote:
Make FW more about FACTION warfare and not just a mutual wardec.

Just on the top of my head:

6. Lastly, for FW to truely have an impact on New Edan, the entire map needs to be changed. Each faction should be on its own highsec island. Meaning each faction should be separated by LowSec. Faction Warfare Lowsec to be exact. These systems would be the ones always contested as each faction would be trying to gain ground on each other. Perhaps allowing Amarr/Caldari space and Gallente/Minmatar space have one or two HighSec trading routes between each other. Honestly I think this would make EvE in general much more interesting because it would make the other trade hubs on par with Jita as most carebears wouldn't risk their cargo going through LowSec. I know this wont happen but hey, I can dream can't I.


o/ too tired to make sense


Whilst I do not think full separation of the hisec factions by low sec systems is truly practical (it has been argued elsewhere) I do think that, perhaps, the following suggestion might be practical and fun:

1. Create a highway of low sec systems between Amarr and Jita (shortest route by 2-3 jumps)
2. Create a highway of low sec systems between Dodixie and Hek.
3. Create a link between the central points of these two highways "an intersection".
4. Connect each to both FW low sec Warzones (maybe link them twice to each warzone at the heart of each factions home systems).
5. Each of these systems can be captured by any of the four factions - as long as it is held by one of the two enemies.
6. The system would be captured by the militia whose pilot dealt the final blow ( don't really like this part but I think iHubs should be captured by a different mechanism anyway so this could be done another way)


Now everyone has a choice between the market hubs. Risk the fastest logistic routes or take the traditional hisec "safe-ish" route.

Pitfalls:
a. Could become plagued by constant null sec super cap blobbing
b. May contract the FW zone as militia's "cluster" into the hot zone.
c. Routes will just be used by jump freighters (well the systems do not have to have stations or moons).
d. I'm too am tired but there are bound to be more, keep 'em rolling.

"Remedy this situation or you shall live out the rest of your life in a pain amplifier"

Master Sergeant MacRobert
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#189 - 2014-09-03 20:46:15 UTC
Nameira Vanis-Tor wrote:
My quick 2 cents:

1) Add direct gates between the 2 warzones, this will generate content in the form if multi warzone roams/sieges - this could also in effect create low sec trade hubs if the gated systems have stations.

2) Give more meaningful system bonuses for high tier occupancy - e.g. A tier 5 system may act as a cyno jammer - would place a lot of emphasis on where you choose to live in the warzones.

3) Give meaningful bonuses to FW rank - such as tax breaks when selling in your factions stations, having low sec status ignored in your factions high sec, providing bonuses when flying your factions hulls etc etc


These are the kind of "cement" I would like to see in the foundations of what I think should be added / changed.

"Remedy this situation or you shall live out the rest of your life in a pain amplifier"

Master Sergeant MacRobert
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#190 - 2014-09-03 21:04:40 UTC
Theroine wrote:

I also think all of the talk of sec status hits or making plexes sec status free zones is a bad idea. I understand not wanting to lose sec status. It's a b**ch to get back up. So you have a choice, shoot first and take the hit, or wait to aggress and maybe lose the fight. HTFU and live with the consequences.


I disagree but continue to live with the status quo.

Simple result is that everyone has to consider the sec status hit when engaging.

This is fine if you live for -5 and more or if you have gallons of time or isk to repair lost sec status. However when this is not true, then the result can be warp out rather than take a fight that you would have done if you were able to strike first.

Result: you have a PVP suppressant. Not to everyone but to some and possibly many.

Statement
FW already has a population crisis (active) and I firmly believe the removal of suspect flags within plex's for all would increase PVP fights within FW plex's (from three things: an increased population in militias, an increased amount of time spent fighting in low sec rather than fixing sec status and a decrease in combat willing pilots warping out of fights (particularly solo) because they have decided they don't want to go fix their sec status rather than PVP (consider casual play of less than 10hrs per month before you discredit this)).

I have yet to see a convincing argument to discount this statement. Removal of the suspect flag in FW plex's is simply a combat stimulator / driver. Thus making content.

Btw: the HTFU cliche is weak. It can be quoted by both sides and a number of pilots arguing for this change are clearly combat willing.

"Remedy this situation or you shall live out the rest of your life in a pain amplifier"

Master Sergeant MacRobert
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#191 - 2014-09-03 21:25:25 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Cearain wrote:

I am not sure I understand what you are saying here.

Rollbacks would effect all rabbit plexers equally. Oplexers that leave a plex would start losing time they put into a plex just like defensive plexers would. Everyone would have an incentive to stay and fight instead of just running and hiding.

Maybe because your side is currently in control of over 96% of the warzone you think rabbit d-plexers are better than rabbit o-plexers. But really both forms of rabbits have far too much influence on occupancy. Timer rollbacks will decrease the importance of those who want to always run and will make people who are inclined to stay and fight relatively more valuable. That is exactly what fw needs.


Maybe i think that o-plexers are far less common then before, i happen to think that is a good thing. Nerfing d-plexes is easy, reduce defensive LP. Maybe once this happens timer rollbacks are redundant since a higher amount of engagements end in PVP coupled with the fact that overall levels of VP scores are vastly reduced.


No. The LP reward is not too high for defensive plexing. For those in a lower population militia working hard to protect their system the LP reward is not too high.

The bonus from high tiers is too high. By fixing the tier bonus levels, as Takanuro quoted again recently in this thread, it would re-balance the FW missions and fix the militia migration to high tier faction that plagues the current version.

Timer rollbacks would only really have a minor impact on system contested changes. The reason for having them is to incentivise the game time of proactive, interactive pilots. They are hardly a nerf to the determined LP farmer who wants to make as much isk per hour. They are the boost that a hunting PVPer (who currently hopes that the d-scan entry in a plex is going to stay and fight). Why? Because timer rollbacks encourage you to fight and defend for that which you have spent time working for.

I can only think that any resistance to this change is due only to the coding work that it might require.

"Remedy this situation or you shall live out the rest of your life in a pain amplifier"

Subsparx
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#192 - 2014-09-03 22:07:49 UTC
Master Sergeant MacRobert wrote:
Theroine wrote:

I also think all of the talk of sec status hits or making plexes sec status free zones is a bad idea. I understand not wanting to lose sec status. It's a b**ch to get back up. So you have a choice, shoot first and take the hit, or wait to aggress and maybe lose the fight. HTFU and live with the consequences.


I disagree but continue to live with the status quo.

Simple result is that everyone has to consider the sec status hit when engaging.

This is fine if you live for -5 and more or if you have gallons of time or isk to repair lost sec status. However when this is not true, then the result can be warp out rather than take a fight that you would have done if you were able to strike first.

Result: you have a PVP suppressant. Not to everyone but to some and possibly many.

Statement
FW already has a population crisis (active) and I firmly believe the removal of suspect flags within plex's for all would increase PVP fights within FW plex's (from three things: an increased population in militias, an increased amount of time spent fighting in low sec rather than fixing sec status and a decrease in combat willing pilots warping out of fights (particularly solo) because they have decided they don't want to go fix their sec status rather than PVP (consider casual play of less than 10hrs per month before you discredit this)).

I have yet to see a convincing argument to discount this statement. Removal of the suspect flag in FW plex's is simply a combat stimulator / driver. Thus making content.

Btw: the HTFU cliche is weak. It can be quoted by both sides and a number of pilots arguing for this change are clearly combat willing.


I disagree with needing to remove suspect flags in plexes. We are on a militia, warring another militia. We do not suddenly gain free reign from Concord to attack anyone we want in low sec. Yes, it's a plex, but I still don't feel the mechanics there should change. If you want to shoot first ask questions later, you should have the same penalties anyone else would.

In regards to those complaining about repairing sec status as a faction warfare pilot, there really isn't much room to complain. If you are in plexes, which is where people are complaining about this problem, you are plexing and therefore earning LP. I just took my sec status back to 0 the other day and it only cost me a couple hundred mil, which is a negligible amount of money in FW. I make that much every couple days running a few plexes here and there, and the amount of time required to get my sec status down that low took me FAR longer than that. I don't see an issue with the current system.

CEO of Crimson Serpent Syndicate - www.crimsonserpent.com

Chairman of Heiian Conglomerate - www.heiian.com

Owner of FWC - www.factionwarfare.com

Master Sergeant MacRobert
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#193 - 2014-09-03 23:41:57 UTC
Subsparx wrote:
Master Sergeant MacRobert wrote:
Theroine wrote:

I also think all of the talk of sec status hits or making plexes sec status free zones is a bad idea. I understand not wanting to lose sec status. It's a b**ch to get back up. So you have a choice, shoot first and take the hit, or wait to aggress and maybe lose the fight. HTFU and live with the consequences.


I disagree but continue to live with the status quo.

Simple result is that everyone has to consider the sec status hit when engaging.

This is fine if you live for -5 and more or if you have gallons of time or isk to repair lost sec status. However when this is not true, then the result can be warp out rather than take a fight that you would have done if you were able to strike first.

Result: you have a PVP suppressant. Not to everyone but to some and possibly many.

Statement
FW already has a population crisis (active) and I firmly believe the removal of suspect flags within plex's for all would increase PVP fights within FW plex's (from three things: an increased population in militias, an increased amount of time spent fighting in low sec rather than fixing sec status and a decrease in combat willing pilots warping out of fights (particularly solo) because they have decided they don't want to go fix their sec status rather than PVP (consider casual play of less than 10hrs per month before you discredit this)).

I have yet to see a convincing argument to discount this statement. Removal of the suspect flag in FW plex's is simply a combat stimulator / driver. Thus making content.

Btw: the HTFU cliche is weak. It can be quoted by both sides and a number of pilots arguing for this change are clearly combat willing.


If you want to shoot first ask questions later, you should have the same penalties anyone else would.



Where in my proposal can you indicate your statement does not hold true?

"Remedy this situation or you shall live out the rest of your life in a pain amplifier"

Subsparx
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#194 - 2014-09-04 18:03:54 UTC
I'm stating I don't think the plexes should have special rules regarding suspect flags. The penalty for attacking first is very low. There shouldn't be special rules because you entered the plex that aren't seen elsewhere.

I see your reasoning, I just don't feel it's valid. I have people in my own corp that play less than 10 hours a month in actual PVP and they don't have an issue with fixing sec status. It costs a small amount of money and a few minutes to get to a Concord station and poof, they are 0.0 again. The only reasoning I can see for not wanting to attack first is actually for those that have positive sec statuses, such as the 5.0 players.

However, I feel that anyone living in low-sec needs to understand that they can be attacked anywhere at any time by pirates, not just in plexes but DED sites, gates, stations, etc. Not firing first is a risk they have to take in to account regarding whether their sec status is truly that important. If you make these plexes free fire zones with no sec penalty, what's to stop people from then saying okay, plexes are great now, but it sucks that pirates are attacking me in my DED site. Now we'll have people asking for that to be fixed so they can attack first without a hit too. They can even use the same grounds. Somebody coming in to my occupied DED site is there for combat not just floating around in space, therefore I shouldn't get a penalty for attacking them. It's a slippery slope in my opinion.

CEO of Crimson Serpent Syndicate - www.crimsonserpent.com

Chairman of Heiian Conglomerate - www.heiian.com

Owner of FWC - www.factionwarfare.com

Samwise Everquest
Plus 10 NV
#195 - 2014-09-05 21:11:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Samwise Everquest
To some degree, I agree. The faction ships inside plexs should react to pirates as if they were faction police in highsec. Depending on the pirates sec status, they should attack pies that warp into plexes.

Something like:

-10 sec status gets you attacked by faction NPC in any plex in any system

- maybe some more categories

- maybe some more categories

- Finally anyone -4.9 sec status or less can go into plexes without aggression.

Obviously there are alot of pirate FW pilots so there would have to be some kind of system in place to override the security status of militia pilots. Otherwise their own faction would blap them.

Just throwing ideas out there. Nothing to see here.

PS adding tags to fix security status, aka pay to win, was a terrible idea. Now anyone with a wallet can do w/e they please without much risk or consequences. The idea that CONCORD can be bought, disgusting. CONCORD captain must be from Caldari with that kind of business in place.

Pras Phil.

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