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Blitzing lvl4 missions - which ship is the most efficient nowadays?
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Gefen Orion
Icebox Industries
#1 - 2014-09-03 01:49:20 UTC
Alot of things have change since Tengu and Machariel were kings of mission blitzing. Marauders, rattlesnake, typhoon, dominix, (dare i say raven navy?), even the all mighty ishtar have all experienced significant changes that makes them viable and unique in today's mission runners.

We all know that they all can do lvl4 missions and the best way to go about it is to own 3 kinds of mission running battleships tailored specifically to handle specific missions.

Share your experience and expertise to the community so that we can usher a new breed of mission blitzing carebears. Big smile

Come, sit and have a cup of tea....tell us your story. Blink
Dato Koppla
Neuronix
#2 - 2014-09-03 02:08:31 UTC
I would say the Mach is still the king of blitzing, it has the speed, tank and dps to blitz the missions and it has the faster warp speed which became a huge part of mission completion times. I haven't tested it and actually haven't done much L4 missions in awhile, but I feel the Mach would definitely be the fastest blizer.
Gefen Orion
Icebox Industries
#3 - 2014-09-03 02:27:25 UTC
Dato Koppla wrote:
I would say the Mach is still the king of blitzing, it has the speed, tank and dps to blitz the missions and it has the faster warp speed which became a huge part of mission completion times. I haven't tested it and actually haven't done much L4 missions in awhile, but I feel the Mach would definitely be the fastest blizer.


The thing about the mach is that if your going the warp acceleration/speed fit, you are going to sacrifice something for speed. (less tracking, less damage for more warp speed coz of low slots or less cap, less damage, less whatever due to warp acceleration rig slots you get the point.) If you are not going to fit warp enhancing modules, then the mach will still be the old mach with a larger sig radius that makes previous speed tanking a little bit harder than before or not. So its a toss up. Speed or combat performance?
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#4 - 2014-09-03 04:27:22 UTC
the mach has extra warp speed built into the hull. also it still has insane agility for a battleship. Also you could go with warp speed implants which don't really disrupt much imo as the other option for shiny implants seems to be a crystal set.

Paladin is pretty freaking insane at killing NPCs. I think it has become my goto for most missions. plus it is easy to overtank with a medium repper + bastion.
Kronos can be pretty awesome too with blasters, although I'm not sure how fond of the range on blasters I am.
Golem, pretty decent all around, but not outstanding imo.
Vargur, meh, already had 5 damage mods and 3-4 projection mods fit before the marauder changes. It never really needed more tank. slower than the mach, I'd rather just fly a mach for most missions. 48km tractors are just useful for a few.

Rattlesnake has huge damage, but is a total pain in the arse to fly. the cruise missiles feel so slow, and have a ton of volley damage making overkill very easy, plus timing the damage with sentry drones.
Nightmare, kinda similar to the paladin, but I think I'd rather have a paladin.

Tengu: not bad at some missions, if you need to tank a lot and only kill a few things it can work.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Gefen Orion
Icebox Industries
#5 - 2014-09-03 04:52:22 UTC
Yeah the mach is still viable.

But still the question is...which one is the most efficient blitzer?

Is the Machariel still king of blitzing?
Kosetzu
The Black Crow Bandits
Northern Coalition.
#6 - 2014-09-03 06:55:57 UTC
Mach is probably still the best blitzer because of its speed and agility while maintaining high dps. You likely won't need a very heavy tank with it either.
Kyoko Onzo
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#7 - 2014-09-03 08:22:41 UTC
Mach is a cruiser on steroids with BS sized guns. Seriously the thing is more agile and faster than BC's. Can pump out dps. Warps like a cruiser, can fit a good shield or Armor tank, allows damage selection, yummy drone bay, great slot layout, and 3 rig slots as oppose to 2 of a marauder. What more do you want? It might not be tops at everything (or anything) but it's second or third in everything. So if you can only afford one BS (I'm including shiny mods for it too), buy a Mach. It really is that simple.
Gefen Orion
Icebox Industries
#8 - 2014-09-03 09:13:52 UTC
It's kinda hard to believe that since the mach came out years ago, people still believe its king of ISK grinding. Will no one refute this claim? Are all pilots agreeable on this matter? The Mach is still King of Blitzing.
Creamdream
Whatever Brah
#9 - 2014-09-03 11:09:17 UTC
Dominix is faster than Mach nowadays, in my experience.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#10 - 2014-09-03 16:46:11 UTC
Creamdream wrote:
Dominix is faster than Mach nowadays, in my experience.


You would need a pretty specific mission profile for this to be true.
Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2014-09-03 17:23:55 UTC
I like my Paladin, I warp in blast bastion 120 range with Scorch, melt everything and warp out.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#12 - 2014-09-03 18:27:08 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
Kronos can be pretty awesome too with blasters, although I'm not sure how fond of the range on blasters I am.

I can't compare a Blaster Kronos to other Marauders since I can't fly them, but I can attest to the fact that it does have plenty of range to handle missions reasonably quickly.

With my Kronos fit (Neutrons /w Null + Bastion + 2x TCs), I get 19.3km / 47.2km optimal/falloff with ~840 peak DPS. I can insta-pop approaching frigates at 60km, and do good DPS to everything else out to ~40km (optimal + 1/2 falloff), which is plenty of range for missions I've run across. You will learn to pull early, depending on your prop mod.

Rail fits have absolutely sick range and almost as much DPS as a Null Kronos. I've been tempted to play around with a MJD sniper fit, but haven't had time.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Cadius Vect
Tenth Plague of Egypt
#13 - 2014-09-03 18:38:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Cadius Vect
Celthric Kanerian wrote:
I like my Paladin, I warp in blast bastion 120 range with Scorch, melt everything and warp out.


I've always seen this as a pointless tactic for level 4s, you're still far better off just sitting where you spawn or slow boating to the next gate and blapping stuff with ~1000 DPS tachs.

Bronson Hughes wrote:
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
Kronos can be pretty awesome too with blasters, although I'm not sure how fond of the range on blasters I am.

I can't compare a Blaster Kronos to other Marauders since I can't fly them, but I can attest to the fact that it does have plenty of range to handle missions reasonably quickly.

With my Kronos fit (Neutrons /w Null + Bastion + 2x TCs), I get 19.3km / 47.2km optimal/falloff with ~840 peak DPS. I can insta-pop approaching frigates at 60km, and do good DPS to everything else out to ~40km (optimal + 1/2 falloff), which is plenty of range for missions I've run across. You will learn to pull early, depending on your prop mod.

Rail fits have absolutely sick range and almost as much DPS as a Null Kronos. I've been tempted to play around with a MJD sniper fit, but haven't had time.


Again, really no need to snipe, you're far more efficient when applying the DPS within your optimal as long as you deal with the frigs outside of 30km and the cruisers outside of 20km.

I'd always take a rail kronos over a blaster kronos bar maybe a few missions, the DPS drop off outside of optimal is fairly steep.

Both kronos and paladin aren't bad, but they're fairly specialized, for overall blitzing potential I would go with the CNR, it's damage application at all ranges and true select-able damage type makes it a better all rounder than even the mach in my opinion.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#14 - 2014-09-03 19:10:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Bronson Hughes
Cadius Vect wrote:
Again, really no need to snipe, you're far more efficient when applying the DPS within your optimal as long as you deal with the frigs outside of 30km and the cruisers outside of 20km.

I'd always take a rail kronos over a blaster kronos bar maybe a few missions, the DPS drop off outside of optimal is fairly steep.

Both kronos and paladin aren't bad, but they're fairly specialized, for overall blitzing potential I would go with the CNR, it's damage application at all ranges and true select-able damage type makes it a better all rounder than even the mach in my opinion.

Here's the thing: with a blaster Kronos, you can apply very good DPS at ranges longer than you specified. 19km Optimal + 47km falloff means you're doing ~80% of your max damage potential out to ~40km (Optimal + 1/2 Falloff). This is plenty to kill cruisers and frigates very quickly at 20km and 30km. I one-shot approaching frigates at ranges out to 60km; sure, I'm only doing 50% damage at that range, but when you're base salvo damage is 3500+, it doesn't matter.

Having said that, you're not wrong about the CNR. The Kronos' one real weakness in my eyes is it's fixed damage type. Kin/Therm is a good "all around" damage profile for certain, but being able to select the ideal damage profile would certainly rock.

The Kronos is really good, but I don't think it's the best. My beef is people selling the Blaster Kronos short because of "range issues".

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Cadius Vect
Tenth Plague of Egypt
#15 - 2014-09-03 21:36:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Cadius Vect
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Cadius Vect wrote:
Again, really no need to snipe, you're far more efficient when applying the DPS within your optimal as long as you deal with the frigs outside of 30km and the cruisers outside of 20km.

I'd always take a rail kronos over a blaster kronos bar maybe a few missions, the DPS drop off outside of optimal is fairly steep.

Both kronos and paladin aren't bad, but they're fairly specialized, for overall blitzing potential I would go with the CNR, it's damage application at all ranges and true select-able damage type makes it a better all rounder than even the mach in my opinion.

Here's the thing: with a blaster Kronos, you can apply very good DPS at ranges longer than you specified. 19km Optimal + 47km falloff means you're doing ~80% of your max damage potential out to ~40km (Optimal + 1/2 Falloff). This is plenty to kill cruisers and frigates very quickly at 20km and 30km. I one-shot approaching frigates at ranges out to 60km; sure, I'm only doing 50% damage at that range, but when you're base salvo damage is 3500+, it doesn't matter.

Having said that, you're not wrong about the CNR. The Kronos' one real weakness in my eyes is it's fixed damage type. Kin/Therm is a good "all around" damage profile for certain, but being able to select the ideal damage profile would certainly rock.

The Kronos is really good, but I don't think it's the best. My beef is people selling the Blaster Kronos short because of "range issues".


The way most of the lv4s worth running are laid out means that being able to apply full DPS at ranges up to an beyond 50km is highly advantageous. I've experimented with blaster boats in level 4s and have come to the conclusion that you're generally better off with rails as a whole across all the decent lv4 missions, same goes for tachs/pulse.

Sure the blaster kronos & pulse paladin can work perfectly well, but on average I'd say the same ships equipped with the long rage weapon systems perform better. The auto vargur is the exception to this but even it struggles with the higher bounty BS that orbit at ~40-50k, meaning you need to burn towards them to apply decent damage, which reduces efficiency.
Kosetzu
The Black Crow Bandits
Northern Coalition.
#16 - 2014-09-03 22:22:59 UTC
Cadius Vect wrote:
Sure the blaster kronos & pulse paladin can work perfectly well, but on average I'd say the same ships equipped with the long rage weapon systems perform better.

My pulse Paladin disagrees with you. Beams are too slow at firing and you overkill things way too much while having a lot worse tracking. Being able to apply damage at all ranges without loosing a lot of dps due to range or tracking issues is really neat. If you like to use beams and move around why even fly a Paladin in the first place. Not like ammo costs are a concern at any time.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#17 - 2014-09-04 00:55:00 UTC
Kosetzu wrote:
Cadius Vect wrote:
Sure the blaster kronos & pulse paladin can work perfectly well, but on average I'd say the same ships equipped with the long rage weapon systems perform better.

My pulse Paladin disagrees with you. Beams are too slow at firing and you overkill things way too much while having a lot worse tracking. Being able to apply damage at all ranges without loosing a lot of dps due to range or tracking issues is really neat. If you like to use beams and move around why even fly a Paladin in the first place. Not like ammo costs are a concern at any time.



The problem you run in to is that you're either using MF, Xray or Scorch and you lose thermal damage type. Not a problem against Amarr based NPC but when you have to fight guristas for instance then you REALL want to use tacchs, simply because up to 70km that uses MF, giving the best thermal damage. The rof difference sure is true but honestly the overkill situation isn't all that much worse.

I'd go as far as saying that Tach is the base loadout and only switch to Pulses in short range missions (Damsel etc)
Gefen Orion
Icebox Industries
#18 - 2014-09-04 01:19:39 UTC
The Mobile depot is really a very handy equipment. Of all the things recently injected by CCP to eve client, the mobile depot is my favorite add-on. In space module switching is awesome.

When i fly a Kronos, I usually fit it with rails (depends on the mission of course). If i do missions for gallente, most of the npc serpentis rats in most of the missions will be around 20km to 50km. This is ideal for a rail boat fitted with javelins. Got no problems there. Now, when handed with an angel mission, I switch to blasters, which kinda melt every angel ships while MWD pulsing to the next gate. If for some missions the npc rats are all over the place from 10km up to 100km away, i carry an extra set of blaster or rails in my cargohold and a mobile depot. As soon as I land, i drop my mobile depot, shoot frigs and cruisers for the first minute then switch to blasters or rails whichever is more appropriate (dictated by range).

The Kronos efficiency is on par with the other marauders. It really is just a matter of preference and which ship is more applicable to what space you live in and what kind of rats your shooting.

I got a question though, with the way Marauders are so OP right now (versus PVE), is it still profitable to fly non-marauder ships while doing lvl4 missions? The reason i ask this is with the right marauder, you can kill everything quickly while looting and salvaging (BS size wrecks). It is possible to finish most missions within the 10 to 15 minute mark as fast as any pirate ship while still being capable of looting and salvaging specific type of wrecks....

With that said, i am doubting that the Machariel can beat a properly fitted and piloted Marauder with regards to total ISK earned.
Pookoko
Sigma Sagittarii Inc.
#19 - 2014-09-04 04:25:08 UTC
Things start to get more interesting if you are using two or more ships for a mission. At least where I mission (Gallente space), I would say Mach or Kronos plus Nightmare or CNR is the best combination. Blaster fit Kronos has no range issues in Gallente space where most rats are Serpentis/Angel. Get the fast ROF gun boat like Mach/Kronos to handle cruisers & below while big hitters like Tach Nightmare and CNR one shot BCs and munch on BS rats.

For missioning with a single ship on a single account, I would say the old truth of 'different ship for different missions' still holds true.

BTW, Nightmare is very nice now with AB bonus as it gained mobility. No more slow-boating. Sure it's not like a MWD Mach, but it is a nice bonus.
Luwc
State War Academy
Caldari State
#20 - 2014-09-04 06:47:20 UTC
drake

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