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6 week dev cycles
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Jessica Duranin
Doomheim
#41 - 2014-09-01 22:51:13 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
So its like jumping though a gate and then burning back?

Yeah, like jumping caps through a gate and burning back. Oh... wait.... Roll

Athryn Bellee wrote:
If you're jumping a capital blind into a wh system you deserve to lose it. Wormhole jump distance is nothing related to cynos.

You do know that there is no local in w-space, right?
Just because there is nothing on dscan doesn't mean that there isn't a cloaky tackler sitting right next to you. Blink


In kspace caps travel by cyno. In w-space caps travel by wormhole. How could there possibly be a relation...?
45thtiger 0109
Pan-Intergalatic Business Community
#42 - 2014-09-01 23:53:04 UTC
Moloney wrote:
Hi.

Since you made pox of Hyperion. Left very little time for feedback on the changes and when feedback was provided, just ignored it.

Is this part of the new development cycle?

As in you have 5 weeks to the next Patch and nothing currently posted about those changes.

New scheme:
1. Reduce release cycle time to a point where there is no time to test the changes or give people advanced warning.
2. No time for Feedback so just ignore the outrage at your lack of communication
3. ....
4. Prof... Nope, sorry, I mean: collapse the company because no one believe they will get what they pay for anymore...



Well think of the Volcano in Iceland it might erupt at any time who knows.

If people in Iceland they might have to move elsewhere as it could be dangerous to stay where they are.

I hope everyone at CCP and in Iceland are ok.

CCP please keep the eve community updated with the situation of the Volcano thanks.

**You Have to take the good with the bad and the bad with the good.

Welcome to EvE OnLiNe**
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#43 - 2014-09-01 23:58:51 UTC
The Patch Mechanics System is not up for debate because nobody fucks with the Patch Mechanics System or PMS for short.
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#44 - 2014-09-02 05:20:24 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
if people are too stupid to understand "this is what we're thinking about doing, what do you think?" and "here's a list of features in the next release" well... i'm not sure i have any sympathy and i'm sure most of the community will delight in pointing out how stupid they are. *shrug*


Well, that was justification I got about NDA everything when CSM minutes showed up last time. And everybody in CSM agrees with it because they are privy for early access so they know what's coming. This way they can "give feedback" so CCP could "fix" incoming features and community won't know any better until some dev will post "feedback" thread or blog.

Invalid signature format
Vyl Vit
#45 - 2014-09-02 05:39:40 UTC
Is digital paranoia a registered mental disorder?
(Did I just accidentally discover something?)

Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Midgard Academy
#46 - 2014-09-02 06:05:54 UTC
Can I has your stuff?

Why Can't I have a picture signature.

Also please support graphical immersion, bring back the art that brought people to EvE online originaly.
Derrick Miles
Death Rabbit Ky Oneida
#47 - 2014-09-02 06:25:55 UTC
I'm thinking this thread got started because the original poster didn't like the latest changes, not the method the latest changes came about by.

Focusing on smaller, faster development cycles gives CCP more focus and direction so the content they do release has their full attention right up until release. Rather than having a dozen features that get lost in the mix as development goes on to other things, the focus let's them concentrate on individual, key elements. It also means that the potential for broken features to impact the game is less since they can be monitored individually.

Just because you gave feedback and didn't see something go your way doesn't mean CCP didn't get your feedback. It's a give a take in game development and there will always be some people who get upset in the balancing act.
Fr3akwave
Mercury Arms Inc.
Ghostbirds
#48 - 2014-09-02 06:35:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Fr3akwave
Moloney wrote:
Go read the WH forum and edit your reply.


So thats what this thread is about.

1.) inb4lock - ranting is prohibited, you're welcome dorrim

2.) "Ignoring" player feedback is unequal to "Not following the majority". Just because many people complain about sth they don't like doesn't mean they won't do it and especially doesn't mean they ignored the feedback. The comlpaining lot in the WH forum still is probably <1% of the WH population, but you know, the complaining crowd is always much louder than the indifferent or agreeing one.

3) Concerning the development cycles, go read the dev blog on this topic, its al explained pretty well.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#49 - 2014-09-02 11:30:03 UTC
Jessica Duranin wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
So its like jumping though a gate and then burning back?

Yeah, like jumping caps through a gate and burning back. Oh... wait.... Roll

Athryn Bellee wrote:
If you're jumping a capital blind into a wh system you deserve to lose it. Wormhole jump distance is nothing related to cynos.

You do know that there is no local in w-space, right?
Just because there is nothing on dscan doesn't mean that there isn't a cloaky tackler sitting right next to you. Blink


In kspace caps travel by cyno. In w-space caps travel by wormhole. How could there possibly be a relation...?


Still faster than a freighter.
Moloney
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2014-09-02 11:53:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Moloney
The points:
1. Short release cycle stated as drawing focus onto a smaller quantity of changes resulting in less bugs
- Actual result: bugs in virtually every part of the patch.

2. CCP states shorter dev cycle allows for smaller tweaks more often rather than massive change.
- Actual result: Complete overhaul of every aspect of wormholes.

3. CCP advertise based on being a company that is finely in tune with their customers.
- Actual result: CCP completely ignored an entire community stating that were against the proposed changes. And continue to ignore said community when they are still not happy about the ccp **** in their Ass.

Result 3 ctn. Said community have been calling for various changes to wormholes over the years. None were implemented.

4. Shorter development cycles, based on Hyperion, show that CCP do not have time to solicit feedback in a timely manor.
Result: current disgust being shown in wh forum / likely disgust shown by next community to get Ass raped by lack of communication.

If they were as focused, committed & capable as some here seem to think. Why is there no dev blog for the next patch (little over 3 weeks left)

The devs may be competent but devs do not make decisions. They code other peoples decisions. (Fozzie might have a dev tag in this forum but he is not a software developer.)
Cherry Sulphate
ojingo
#51 - 2014-09-02 12:44:37 UTC
it must be wonderful to be 15 and so in touch with your anger, hey moloney?
Fr3akwave
Mercury Arms Inc.
Ghostbirds
#52 - 2014-09-02 13:29:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Fr3akwave
Moloney wrote:
The points:
1. Short release cycle stated as drawing focus onto a smaller quantity of changes resulting in less bugs
- Actual result: bugs in virtually every part of the patch.

2. CCP states shorter dev cycle allows for smaller tweaks more often rather than massive change.
- Actual result: Complete overhaul of every aspect of wormholes.

3. CCP advertise based on being a company that is finely in tune with their customers.
- Actual result: CCP completely ignored an entire community stating that were against the proposed changes. And continue to ignore said community when they are still not happy about the ccp **** in their Ass.

Result 3 ctn. Said community have been calling for various changes to wormholes over the years. None were implemented.

4. Shorter development cycles, based on Hyperion, show that CCP do not have time to solicit feedback in a timely manor.
Result: current disgust being shown in wh forum / likely disgust shown by next community to get Ass raped by lack of communication.

If they were as focused, committed & capable as some here seem to think. Why is there no dev blog for the next patch (little over 3 weeks left)

The devs may be competent but devs do not make decisions. They code other peoples decisions. (Fozzie might have a dev tag in this forum but he is not a software developer.)


1. Name one single feature of any release of EVE, no lets expand this, of any game out there, that was entirely bug free. (Hint: don't waste time. you wont find any. This game is being developed by humans and humans make errors.)

2. "Every aspect of WHs"? Did you get a different Hyperion than i did? *scratching head* For me almost everything is still the same.

3. Actually, CCP is as fine with its customers as it gets. Seriously, this is not perfect, but start looking around you and at other gaming companies before you put out such statements. When multiple opinions contradict each other, there is always someone who will not be pleased.
A couple of people complaining is not "the whole community" and "noticing complaints but consciously make a decision to go anther road" is not "ignoring said community". A whole community uprising looks different, believe me. Look up EVE's history, then you know what a whole community raging can cause. Putting up a tower of depots in front of Jita 4-4 and scrambling them every two minutes is not an uprising.

4. They have enough time. They just deliberately went against your personal opinion (that a part of the WH community shares). Those are two different things.


"No dev blogs" argument: That is exactly what the short release cycles are about - agility. If things are not done yet, they wont be released and don't need a dev blog. It will just happen in the next dev cycle. If something is ready, you will be notified.
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog
B.L.U.E L.A.S.E.R.
#53 - 2014-09-02 13:44:04 UTC
Moloney wrote:
Hi.

Since you made pox of Hyperion. Left very little time for feedback on the changes and when feedback was provided, just ignored it.

Is this part of the new development cycle?

As in you have 5 weeks to the next Patch and nothing currently posted about those changes.

New scheme:
1. Reduce release cycle time to a point where there is no time to test the changes or give people advanced warning.
2. No time for Feedback so just ignore the outrage at your lack of communication
3. ....
4. Prof... Nope, sorry, I mean: collapse the company because no one believe they will get what they pay for anymore...


You seem to be confusing "feedback" with something like "voting"

Bitching doesn't mean a feature doesn't make it into the game. Giving you more time to ***** does not make your "vote" mean more, either.

I like the 6 week development cycle.

I am not an alt of Chribba.
Fr3akwave
Mercury Arms Inc.
Ghostbirds
#54 - 2014-09-02 14:02:49 UTC
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote:

You seem to be confusing "feedback" with something like "voting"

Bitching doesn't mean a feature doesn't make it into the game. Giving you more time to ***** does not make your "vote" mean more, either.

I like the 6 week development cycle.


QFT.

So very few words that exactly describe the problem. Well done.
Flay Nardieu
#55 - 2014-09-02 15:16:07 UTC
The 6 week cycle IMO is good, just hasn't been handled as well as it should. But if we compare the flaws versus the improvements, flaws are starting to be the bigger factor with the rapid release cycles.

Couple arbitrary examples:
Odassey: Tweaks to scanning UI and presets for probe patterns but included the spew containers that took some time to removed.

Crius: Overhaul of industry with a bulky less than intuitive UI and a complete lack of common sense with decentralization of BP placement on POS side removing remote from office they at least should have had the foresight to make BPs usable from an online corp hangar at the POS but we did get compression arrays and a somewhat more intuitive reprocessing of modules.

In the first example it improved the acquisition of sites which determining what something was of interest quicker but made looting data and relic sites annoying as hell.

The second example makes S&I more of a chore especially at a POS this is a much greater nuisance value in the expansion for those who would do S&I at a POS in addition to ore compression.

I have stated in many posts related to Crius how dumb that approach is even though I am irked with basically the bulk of the changes with Crius and definitely would prefer changed for personal preference I know I won't get them but damn how hard is it for CCP to admit that they dropped the ball with decentralizing where we store BPs and the UI is a lot less then advertised. Correcting obvious flaws should be high on the priority in a rapid release system. Radical changes should really be fully ran through their paces on SISI before every even being considered to be deployed on Tranquility. I know one thing I tested on Sisi had only 2 weeks prior to release to test then went live with the update and it wasn't resolved.

Can anyone honestly say they like moving BP around in a POS?
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#56 - 2014-09-02 15:29:56 UTC
I was very excited about the release cycle change because it makes complete sense in a big project like EVE.

... until I realized that they now will break the game 10 times instead of 2 times per year because of the completely absent QA (can I has my overview back?).

Evil RatKid
Moloney
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2014-09-02 15:42:28 UTC
Cherry Sulphate wrote:
it must be wonderful to be 15 and so in touch with your anger, hey moloney?


I wish I was 15 hehe, but thanks!
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#58 - 2014-09-02 19:49:59 UTC
Flay Nardieu wrote:
The 6 week cycle IMO is good, just hasn't been handled as well as it should. But if we compare the flaws versus the improvements, flaws are starting to be the bigger factor with the rapid release cycles.

Couple arbitrary examples:
Odassey: Tweaks to scanning UI and presets for probe patterns but included the spew containers that took some time to removed.


This is actually an exsample as to why the old cycle sucked. It took them a year to compile the data and kill it. Odassey was part of the old cycle, not the new.

Quote:

Crius: Overhaul of industry with a bulky less than intuitive UI and a complete lack of common sense with decentralization of BP placement on POS side removing remote from office they at least should have had the foresight to make BPs usable from an online corp hangar at the POS but we did get compression arrays and a somewhat more intuitive reprocessing of modules.



So you are whining because your bp's are no longer 100% safe from attack? Where as one fo the biggest reasons you needed a pos anyway (slot limits) has been removed so you can go to any station and setup shop with no problems. Yea, i'm an industrialist carebear and even I thought the idea of remote copy and manufacture was stupid and needed to die in a fire years ago.

Quote:

In the first example it improved the acquisition of sites which determining what something was of interest quicker but made looting data and relic sites annoying as hell.

The second example makes S&I more of a chore especially at a POS this is a much greater nuisance value in the expansion for those who would do S&I at a POS in addition to ore compression.

I have stated in many posts related to Crius how dumb that approach is even though I am irked with basically the bulk of the changes with Crius and definitely would prefer changed for personal preference I know I won't get them but damn how hard is it for CCP to admit that they dropped the ball with decentralizing where we store BPs and the UI is a lot less then advertised. Correcting obvious flaws should be high on the priority in a rapid release system. Radical changes should really be fully ran through their paces on SISI before every even being considered to be deployed on Tranquility. I know one thing I tested on Sisi had only 2 weeks prior to release to test then went live with the update and it wasn't resolved.

Can anyone honestly say they like moving BP around in a POS?


They decentralized nothing. They made it harder for you to have safe bp's. I so can't wait for the reactions when they announce all stations in null can be destroyed and you will lose your crap in it. The tears will be epic... and what the hell have you forum people done to me?!?1

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2014-09-02 23:03:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Mocam
Xercodo wrote:
Abrazzar wrote:
The six week release cycle also allows them to quicker respond should the perceived issues actually become observable issues on the live server.


This.

That and the dev themselves are enjoying the 6-week cycle more themselves, and when morale in CCP is high, **** might actually get done.


What we are not getting is what they started up around 2010 - the "rolling changes" but they are doing a faster delivery.

Remember the new character generator? No tattoos, hoods were oddly done, no ... How many remakes did we get?

The rollout methodology back then gave this game an extremely beta feel as they'd toss out half-baked solutions that then were to be "iterated upon" *AFTER* delivery.

Not tweaked a bit but flat out incomplete that then were to be fleshed out *AND* adjusted.

We did that for how many years up to that riot?

This is a better approach where at least the changes they are rolling out are mostly complete - even if people don't like them all, they aren't "starter" points to be worked on.

Note also that this is why we only have a CQ and a door that doesn't open. *THAT* was to be iterated on and expanded but not revisited.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#60 - 2014-09-03 03:32:49 UTC
you know how you can get a set of capital BPOs together, and figure out the number of component BPOs you need to have a set of capitals complete at the same time? I figure the faster release cycle is like that. It's the minimum block of time that several dev sections can have in common. it might be three items from one department, five from another, and 1 huge update from a third. I like it. I think it's a good sign (that someone is thinking like an eve player).

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)