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Eve Online poor quality content thoughts and reality.

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Xylorn Hasher
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#41 - 2014-09-02 12:27:56 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Xylorn Hasher wrote:
Sigh,

EBITDA is Earnings before Interest, Taxes, Depreciation and Amortization.
To make it simply enough to you to understand CCP earned 54,2% less this year than last year.


Asset write-downs are an above the line expense. Which means they're included in EBITDA calculations.

Did CCP write down any expensive assets this year? I've forgotten. It's that pesky mad cow I picked up. She's so distracting.

EBITDA is still quite different from income.


Yes, its diffrent and usually lower than EBITDA.

All my posts are made shortly after Marihuana consumption.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#42 - 2014-09-02 12:31:06 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Xylorn Hasher wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Asset write-downs are an above the line expense. Which means they're included in EBITDA calculations.

Did CCP write down any expensive assets this year? I've forgotten. It's that pesky mad cow I picked up. She's so distracting.

EBITDA is still quite different from income.


Yes, its diffrent and usually lower than EBITDA.


In both 2012 and 2013, CCP made more money off tax credits than they paid in income taxes. Emplyees salaries are also included in the expenses part of EBITDA calculations, so they wouldn't push anything lower.

Now, would you mind answering my question? Also how likely do you think it is that CCP will write down another similarly sized asset later this year?

You were saying something about knowing what you're talking about?
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/e/ebitda.asp

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Xylorn Hasher
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#43 - 2014-09-02 12:37:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Xylorn Hasher
RubyPorto wrote:
Xylorn Hasher wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Asset write-downs are an above the line expense. Which means they're included in EBITDA calculations.

Did CCP write down any expensive assets this year? I've forgotten. It's that pesky mad cow I picked up. She's so distracting.

EBITDA is still quite different from income.


Yes, its diffrent and usually lower than EBITDA.


In both 2012 and 2013, CCP made more money off tax credits than they paid in income taxes. Emplyees salaries are also included in the expenses part of EBITDA calculations, so they wouldn't push anything lower.

Now, would you mind answering my question? Also how likely do you think it is that CCP will write down another similarly sized asset later this year?

You were saying something about knowing what you're talking about?
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/e/ebitda.asp


Thank you,
your example perfectly shows that EBITDA is always higher than income Blink

CCP earned 54,2% less than in same time last year, as a resault of financial report they abadoned World of Darkenss project, and closed their office in San Francisco, sacking all employees.

All my posts are made shortly after Marihuana consumption.
Rosolo Refili
Flight of thee Damned
#44 - 2014-09-02 12:42:27 UTC
The "EVE is dying" jokes aren't really helpful to anyone, one day (who knows when?) it will die that's the truth, it will probably be the point when Sony or EA buy it.......

I believe the quotes are real but here are my two thoughts

1) MMOs can suffer from a type of Bank run from these sorts of scares where people leave because they think it is dying an Isk is only worth something because of the other players for example.
2) A lot of companies have big write offs and still survive and it is easy for employees to feel negative for a number of reasons that aren't actually what they are saying

Generally though people DO need to be aware that Eve will die one day, hopefully not this day
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#45 - 2014-09-02 12:46:38 UTC
Xylorn Hasher wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
In both 2012 and 2013, CCP made more money off tax credits than they paid in income taxes. Emplyees salaries are also included in the expenses part of EBITDA calculations, so they wouldn't push anything lower.

Now, would you mind answering my question? Also how likely do you think it is that CCP will write down another similarly sized asset later this year?

You were saying something about knowing what you're talking about?
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/e/ebitda.asp


Thank you,
your example perfectly shows that EBITDA is always higher than income Blink


Nope.

EBITDA is Net income adjusted to ignore interest, taxes, amortization, and depreciation.

An asset write-down is not normal depreciation, and is an above the line expense. So it's included in the EBITDA.
CCP makes money off taxes. So that would increase net income from EBITDA.
CCP pays very little interest. So that wouldn't affect net income from EBITDA.
You've provided nothing to suggest CCP's amortization has changed. So that wouldn't affect the year-on-year EBITDA.

The only reason EBITDA is lower this year than last is that CCP had a large, one-time asset write down in April. So that decrease doesn't, in any way, support your claims.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Foxstar Damaskeenus
why did i join this corp
Not Purple Shoot It.
#46 - 2014-09-02 12:50:41 UTC
Flay Nardieu wrote:
Foxstar Damaskeenus wrote:
TLDR

also

DTSABP

"Delete this **** and ban player"


If/When others provide other sources of verification (must have documented proof even when some things are just take common sense) Fanboys won't want it known, got to love delete the truth and ban the messenger mindset ROFLMAO.


Buzz off and go play another game/ get a life. People come on the forums who are looking for relevant game information. Not another one of these posts, we see this crap every day and no one cares except to tell you we don't want any more of this tin foil on the forums.

"[this thread] is a cesspit of trolling and flaming" ISD Buldath
Xylorn Hasher
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#47 - 2014-09-02 12:58:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Xylorn Hasher
RubyPorto wrote:


Nope.

EBITDA is Net income adjusted to ignore interest, taxes, amortization, and depreciation.

An asset write-down is not normal depreciation, and is an above the line expense. So it's included in the EBITDA.
CCP makes money off taxes. So that would increase net income from EBITDA.
CCP pays very little interest. So that wouldn't affect net income from EBITDA.
You've provided nothing to suggest CCP's amortization has changed. So that wouldn't affect the year-on-year EBITDA.

The only reason EBITDA is lower this year than last is that CCP had a large, one-time asset write down in April. So that decrease doesn't, in any way, support your claims.



Move to half the page of a link you added in one of posts above. There is a calculation example that shows clearly that EBITDA is higher than income.

Roll

All my posts are made shortly after Marihuana consumption.
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#48 - 2014-09-02 12:58:51 UTC
CCP canned WOD, therefore EVE Online is dying and CCP is hemorrhaging money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! StraightStraightStraightStraight

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Xylorn Hasher
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#49 - 2014-09-02 13:03:37 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
CCP canned WOD, therefore EVE Online is dying and CCP is hemorrhaging money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! StraightStraightStraightStraight


One thing for sure is that CCP is in far worse economic situation that it was at same time of the year in 2013.

All my posts are made shortly after Marihuana consumption.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2014-09-02 13:04:39 UTC
Xylorn Hasher wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Derrick Miles wrote:
"Most CCP's employees are complaying bout its Management lack of clue and lack of competence"

...followed by unattributed remarks with no credibility. If you're going to make a case against CCP, at least support it with something other than rumor-mongering.


Then there's the part where he cites EN24 as a 'source'.

Then there's a part where people who lose their jobs are gonna feel bitter about losing their jobs (come on, everyone here that's ever lost a job knows exactly what I'm talking about).

You give people a site where they can post reviews of a 'former' or even 'current' employer anonymously, and anyone and their dog, employed by that company or not, can do so. I'm sure that CCP and its personnel, both upper and lower, have their faults, but the fact that the company is still functioning and producing content is testament to its strength and persistence. The opinions of former employees, whether real or not, are irrelevant to that.

Also, as someone that's worked in various management positions myself, I can tell you that last quote you offered is full of ****. The jobs of lower level employees are a lot safer than those of the managers. Remember Admiral Ozzel in The Empire Strikes Back? How many Stormtroopers suffered his fate for letting the Falcon escape?


Evenevs24 was a source of CCP's Recent Financial Report.

...


Also CCP Financial Report is publicly avaible so google it if you dont like EVENEWS24.





Congratulations EN24 for learning how to Google.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2014-09-02 13:06:16 UTC
Xylorn Hasher wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
CCP canned WOD, therefore EVE Online is dying and CCP is hemorrhaging money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! StraightStraightStraightStraight


One thing for sure is that CCP is in far worse economic situation that it was at same time of the year in 2013.


A lot of companies are in worse situations right now than they were at the same time in 2013. Does that mean there's a problem?

If you have half as much money in your bank account as you did this time last year, when you had two million dollars, are you going to declare bankruptcy with only one million?

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2014-09-02 13:07:27 UTC
Also, IB4L for rumour mongering.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Xylorn Hasher
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#53 - 2014-09-02 13:15:19 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Xylorn Hasher wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
CCP canned WOD, therefore EVE Online is dying and CCP is hemorrhaging money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! StraightStraightStraightStraight


One thing for sure is that CCP is in far worse economic situation that it was at same time of the year in 2013.


A lot of companies are in worse situations right now than they were at the same time in 2013. Does that mean there's a problem?

If you have half as much money in your bank account as you did this time last year, when you had two million dollars, are you going to declare bankruptcy with only one million?


if you earn half less you can invest in futher game development half less, right?

But, that was never a subject for this post.
Subject for post was a trying to explain to public what might be the reasons CCP is feeding us all with petty unfinished and not even tested patches without adding a real content to game for a quite long time.

So again reason 1 is poor economic situation of company,
reason 2 is CCP is poorly managed / most ppl with love to Eve left them long time ago.

All my posts are made shortly after Marihuana consumption.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#54 - 2014-09-02 13:17:38 UTC
Xylorn Hasher wrote:
Move to half the page of a link you added in one of posts above. There is a calculation example that shows clearly that EBITDA is higher than income.

Roll


... in that example. One example does not a rule make.

Most companies don't have a negative tax burden like CCP does. What happens when you add a negative in to the net profit to get to EBITDA? You get a lower number.

Of course, all of this is irrelevant because your entire argument is based on the premise that the one time asset write-down is somehow indicative of lower future earnings. The write-down actually puts CCP in a better position than last year, since they're no longer pitching money into a failing project.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#55 - 2014-09-02 13:18:49 UTC
It's funny how the OPs entire premise is based on something he got wrong and now it's post after post after post trying to shore up the original premise lol.

He couldn't have just said "hey, i think EVE could use some better content" and be done with it lol.
Xylorn Hasher
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#56 - 2014-09-02 13:23:18 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Xylorn Hasher wrote:
Move to half the page of a link you added in one of posts above. There is a calculation example that shows clearly that EBITDA is higher than income.

Roll


... in that example. One example does not a rule make.

Most companies don't have a negative tax burden like CCP does. What happens when you add a negative in to the net profit to get to EBITDA? You get a lower number.

Of course, all of this is irrelevant because your entire argument is based on the premise that the one time asset write-down is somehow indicative of lower future earnings. The write-down actually puts CCP in a better position than last year, since they're no longer pitching money into a failing project.


Its like you trying to say that -2 > 2. Maybe in your galaxy but not here.

CCP did not abadoned WoD and sacked entire crew from San Fran office because they swim in money, right?

All my posts are made shortly after Marihuana consumption.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2014-09-02 13:23:36 UTC
Xylorn Hasher wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Xylorn Hasher wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
CCP canned WOD, therefore EVE Online is dying and CCP is hemorrhaging money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! StraightStraightStraightStraight


One thing for sure is that CCP is in far worse economic situation that it was at same time of the year in 2013.


A lot of companies are in worse situations right now than they were at the same time in 2013. Does that mean there's a problem?

If you have half as much money in your bank account as you did this time last year, when you had two million dollars, are you going to declare bankruptcy with only one million?



Subject for post was a trying to explain to public what might be the reasons CCP is feeding us all with petty unfinished and not even tested patches without adding a real content to game for a quite long time.


You're coming at this from a false premise. The real argument here isn't CCP's financial position, it's this vexatious assertion that they haven't produced any 'real' content for EVE for some time. Establish and substantiate this assertion that CCP hasn't given us any 'real content' aside from anecdote and personal opinion, and you MIGHT have a case. I don't know where you've been, but I've seen a lot of great new content over the last two years, as well as a lot of PRIORITY FIXES to old content that players who've been here longer than you have been wanting for a very long time.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2014-09-02 13:27:26 UTC
Xylorn Hasher wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Xylorn Hasher wrote:
Move to half the page of a link you added in one of posts above. There is a calculation example that shows clearly that EBITDA is higher than income.

Roll


... in that example. One example does not a rule make.

Most companies don't have a negative tax burden like CCP does. What happens when you add a negative in to the net profit to get to EBITDA? You get a lower number.

Of course, all of this is irrelevant because your entire argument is based on the premise that the one time asset write-down is somehow indicative of lower future earnings. The write-down actually puts CCP in a better position than last year, since they're no longer pitching money into a failing project.


Its like you trying to say that -2 > 2. Maybe in your galaxy but not here.

CCP did not abadoned WoD and sacked entire crew from San Fran office because they swim in money, right?


Okay, let's ignore the real reasons why WoD was dropped, which has been explained in full but clearly you missed it.

If I'm going broke, and decide to sell some assets to prevent that...

Then suddenly, I'm not going broke anymore, I just have a few less assets but more money to put towards maintaining the ones I still have.

So what's the 'emergency' you're trying to manufacture here again to make CCP look bad? Seriously, are you shilling for EA or something?

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#59 - 2014-09-02 13:32:55 UTC
Xylorn Hasher wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Xylorn Hasher wrote:
Move to half the page of a link you added in one of posts above. There is a calculation example that shows clearly that EBITDA is higher than income.

Roll


... in that example. One example does not a rule make.

Most companies don't have a negative tax burden like CCP does. What happens when you add a negative in to the net profit to get to EBITDA? You get a lower number.

Of course, all of this is irrelevant because your entire argument is based on the premise that the one time asset write-down is somehow indicative of lower future earnings. The write-down actually puts CCP in a better position than last year, since they're no longer pitching money into a failing project.


Its like you trying to say that -2 > 2. Maybe in your galaxy but not here.

CCP did not abadoned WoD and sacked entire crew from San Fran office because they swim in money, right?


Let me explain addition and subtraction with negative numbers for you.

Taxes are an expense, which means that a positive tax burden reduces your earnings. To adjust your net earnings to get EBITDA, you add a number equal (including sign) to your tax burden.
For example, if net earnings is 500, and the tax burden is 10, EBITDA is 510 (ignoring other factors).
If the tax burden is -10 (i.e. you get more credits than you pay), EBITDA is 490 with the same 500 net earnings.

CCP has a negative tax burden. Do you follow now?

CCP abandoned WoD because it wasn't going to become a profitable asset. They closed San Francisco because it was where they were working on WoD, and they don't need an office for working on WoD anymore.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog
B.L.U.E L.A.S.E.R.
#60 - 2014-09-02 13:56:16 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Xylorn Hasher wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Xylorn Hasher wrote:
Move to half the page of a link you added in one of posts above. There is a calculation example that shows clearly that EBITDA is higher than income.

Roll


... in that example. One example does not a rule make.

Most companies don't have a negative tax burden like CCP does. What happens when you add a negative in to the net profit to get to EBITDA? You get a lower number.

Of course, all of this is irrelevant because your entire argument is based on the premise that the one time asset write-down is somehow indicative of lower future earnings. The write-down actually puts CCP in a better position than last year, since they're no longer pitching money into a failing project.


Its like you trying to say that -2 > 2. Maybe in your galaxy but not here.

CCP did not abadoned WoD and sacked entire crew from San Fran office because they swim in money, right?


Let me explain addition and subtraction with negative numbers for you.

Taxes are an expense, which means that a positive tax burden reduces your earnings. To adjust your net earnings to get EBITDA, you add a number equal (including sign) to your tax burden.
For example, if net earnings is 500, and the tax burden is 10, EBITDA is 510 (ignoring other factors).
If the tax burden is -10 (i.e. you get more credits than you pay), EBITDA is 490 with the same 500 net earnings.

CCP has a negative tax burden. Do you follow now?

CCP abandoned WoD because it wasn't going to become a profitable asset. They closed San Francisco because it was where they were working on WoD, and they don't need an office for working on WoD anymore.


Please Stop. Just . . . Stop.

He's not getting it, he's never gonna get it, and he doesn't want to get it. You're educating the average forum-goer who doesn't have a higher-level grasp of accounting, but the dude you are responding to probably has trouble with basic arithmetic, much less actual accounting.

Take your knowledge elsewhere, it is honestly wasted at this point (now that it's clear that OP just_doesn't_get_it).

I am not an alt of Chribba.