Science & Industry

Ah, sorry about that.

I've taken the liberty of making the adjunct thread you requested.

This would be fantastic.

Overall, I like Crius.

I've been a manufacturer since I joined EVE Online 3 years ago. I spent 90% of my EVE time building or trading T2 ships. Although I have only 21 manufactring slots and 22 science slots, I managed to sell 40 Billions worth of ships and created profit of 10 Billions in August alone. I also actively participated in team biddings and won 8 teams so far.

What I LIKE most about Crius:

1. Reduction of clicks needed: Now the new UI remembers my last settings on the BPCs, which really made my life a lot easier. No more 5 clicks just to install a jobs!

2. Dynamic nature of industrial world: With the introduction of job cost index and teams, players no longer have the same universal cost. This has definitely driven some players away and opened up the space for professional manufacturers like me.

What I DISLIKE most about Crius:

1. The new industry window is too small: Before Crius, I can see 30+ jobs in the industry window. Now I can see about 8 jobs. Since I always have 43 jobs (including manufacuring & science) running at the same time, I have to scroll a lot just to find out what ships I am or am not buidling.

2. Team auction interface: Please, we need a list of teams we are bidding for. I hate having to scroll down the window and put mouse cursor on hundreds of teams just to find out what bids I have submitted.

3. Short production time on some items: In the past, a 10-run 1400MM Artillery II BPC needs roughly 3 days to manufacture, with the help of Rapid Assembly Array. Now the production time is only 8 hours in a regular Equipment Assembly Array, which made Rapid Assembly Array useless. In addition, I have a real life outside of EVE world and I can't log on every 8 hours to start a new job. In order to solve the problem, I suggest CCP add a new function : T2 BPC consolidation. If I can combine 3 10-run 1400MM Artillery II BPCs into one 30-run 1400MM artillery II BPC, I can start a 24-hour job, which is more reasonable. Longer runs will also allow us to make better use of the material savings.

Please add some overview of my current industry team bids.

If you're talking for the calculation for the cost to install the invention job, it doesn't.

It's based off the cost to build thing you're inventing to.

Source: the numbers match up with my calculator which does it that way.

Maybe I am too new to the game but for what I see:

Pre Crius I wasn't able to manufacture in Jita 4-4 because of slot limitation.
I had to use Frog/Push contracts to get my stuff to my manufacturing facility and had to use Frog/Push to get my stuff back to a trading hub.
That ended (and still ends) up to 8 days of waiting. A very long period of time considering the market.
Of course I could use the fast delivery options by paying an extra fee.

Past Crius I started to manufacture my stuff in Jita 4-4, cutting off the logistic and beeing able to adapt to market fluctuations within a second. I even took out the risk of losing my goods to suicide gankers and wardecs wouldn't shut down my business.
Because of higher installation costs in Jita 4-4 my margins got tighter, but still I would be able to make higher overall profit due to cutting of logistics (ISK and time) and risks.

For what I see the system cost index doesn't work the way it should work.
Manufacturing in Jita 4-4 is WAY too cheap considering the benefits or facilities >10 jumps out are WAY too expensive.
To me moving out 10 jumps won't lower the system cost index enough to justify the extra effort.

As for "new player experience" I still don't see an easy way to get into manufacturing.
Yes, to find a blueprint worth looking at one only has to take the blueprint data out of a YAML file, mix it with some data in a MSSQL database, put in some imported prices and average sell volume out of a XML file delivered by eve-central, fetch some things like system cost index and base price out of CREST, use the charakter blueprint API, the charakter skill API, ... and he is good to go if he doesn't f*ck up formulas.
Or he could take a week off ddosing Fuzzwork with every single blueprint available and each blueprint for different locations and...

I see why Production Efficiency was taken out of the game as it had been a "must have" skill for new players.
Still I don't see the need to change it to a time reduction. We already are building stuff faster than those items are used.
I'd love to see this skill reducing the installation taxes or installation costs as we are able to reduce taxes for reprocessing with standing, broker fees with standing and skills and planetary interaction taxes with skills.
Now I can build a Rifter faster than before Crius and lose even more ISK per hour. I'd like to produce cheap, not fast.
There are a lot of tech1items where one slot and 24 hours of production would be enough to cover the Jita tradevolume of one week or even a month (like... capital cargohold rigs, mining foreman links, ...). Reducing the production time allows me to offer MORE of them, but it doesn't allow me to lower my prices to attract more customers.

How many Strip Miner I were produced during august 2014 - and how many Strip Miner I were destroyed or used for T2 production?
How many Damage Control Units II were produced during august 2014 - and how many DCU II were destroyed?

I think that if you would take a look at units produced vs units destroyed you would agree that the ability to produce stuff even faster isn't the option you should go for.
Oversupply tighten the margins, tight margins take new players out of manufacturing.

And while you are looking at numbers I'd like to ask:
How many production jobs were installed pre crius on an average per month and how has this figure changed?
That would be my personal indicator of wheter those changes are good or bad.

I really like some of the changes made... yet I stopped with the industry part of the game.
I don't find the motivation to update my spreadsheets each time a blueprint is changed and I fail to see an easy way to import my blueprints without using different sources like YAML, XML, SQL, CREST and whatever.
If the charakter blueprint API would include the materials needed to build stuff with given ME/TE I'd take a look at it...

How would you handle multiple bids?

The way the system works now is: multiple people can all put bids in, which count to the system level bid.

X puts 3
Y puts 7
Z puts 15

which leads to a total bid of 25 for the system.


If the next highest bid for a system is 20, what you're suggesting would go up to 21. But how does that break down into X Y and Z's bids, for ISK returned?


(not saying it's a bad idea. Just wondering how you'd suggest implementing it)

And don't forget Qoi with her page:
http://eve-industry.org/calc/

You're not alone in this.

Prior to Crius my production was divided between:

A number of 0.0 locations
One low-sec location
One hi-sec location outside of Jita
All of the stations in Jita

Now my production occurs in:

One station in Jita

...which isn't what the marketing blurb for Crius suggested would happen, but is absolutely what is right for my production operation post Crius.

I was fortunate/wise enough to avoid the Crius deployment horrorshow by ceasing almost all industry activities prior to the deployment, unlike many other supercapital producers who had a "fun" time dealing with the fallout!