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[Hyperion Feedback Thread] Random WHs and the New Small Ship WHs

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Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp
#401 - 2014-08-30 00:07:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Saisin
Sto Lo wrote:
Well, i don't post very much but, CCP you screwed my C3 over supremely. I'm facing 6 wormhole connections daily . Now if i had 15 active players i might be able to live with that, but as it is i don't. We can't PVE, PVP or literally play EVE. I just jumped into a c4 off of my c3 it had 37 sigs, 37!! What have you done?

It will change

for the past two days I had only my static, not even loaded, after the initial flurry of frig sizes WH....

Vote Borat Guereen for CSM XII

Check out the Minarchist Space Project
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#402 - 2014-08-30 05:53:41 UTC
Saisin wrote:
Sto Lo wrote:
Well, i don't post very much but, CCP you screwed my C3 over supremely. I'm facing 6 wormhole connections daily . Now if i had 15 active players i might be able to live with that, but as it is i don't. We can't PVE, PVP or literally play EVE. I just jumped into a c4 off of my c3 it had 37 sigs, 37!! What have you done?

It will change

for the past two days I had only my static, not even loaded, after the initial flurry of frig sizes WH....


Yeah, well, dude you are in SWA. There's like, 700 guys in your corp. You can control your statics with 700 members in your corp.

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Moloney
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#403 - 2014-08-30 22:36:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Moloney
Valenthe de Celine wrote:
Amak Boma wrote:
theres solution

1. rollback hyperion
2. test the all functionality on tranquility
3. listen to players
4. players approve hyperion
5. hyperion goes live servers
6. if something is wrong point 1


Only 2 major parts need to be rolled back, the mass-based jump distances and the frigate WHs. Rest of the patch didn't harm anything I can see. The overview hiccup was fixed already, and they are already decreasing spawn rates on these new WH connections. Everything else isn't whats causing mass exodus from WHs to K-space.


This ^

Fire Fozzie.

Go over you test plan / process changes based on your new development cycles (let me guess - agile?!) because not a single change (other than ******* wormholes) works.
Seraph Essael
Air
The Initiative.
#404 - 2014-09-01 16:11:32 UTC
So today I log in, see nine (9) cosmic signatures in my hole. So I start scanning. All nine are wormholes. Out of them nine, two (2) are my statics, three (3) are K162's and four (4) are wandering outbounds.

I was thinking 'excellent, let's go hunting'. Turns out I can only jump through two of them in my Tengu: My two statics.

The other seven holes are these frigate and destroyer sized holes.

Basically, are you (CCP) trying to force wormholers into using nothing but Frigates and Destroyers? Because that is pretty much all that you can use if you want to fully scout out or hunt now. This is stupid, you are cutting out the absolute majority of ships to use with this ridiculous addition.

I was actually all for these new holes at one point, thinking I do like my Stealth Bomber and my Inty, but the sheer number of these holes is staggeringly overwhelming. You are essentially trying to turn wormholes into another Factional Warfare, where everyone runs around in boosted frigates.

-1 from me, stupid tedius addition to wormholes.

Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person."
Timber Lynn
Adult Beverages
#405 - 2014-09-01 18:42:57 UTC
Think about this one....

I know there is outcry from wormholers that this makes living there untenable. From what I have read CCP wants you out of wormholes so making them unlivable is the goal. The problem is if people stop living there they will be barren. No one will go there.

They are the perfect incubater to teach the skills to move to NS corps or for groups to learn the skills to take SOV space.

Nothing will change EVE like retaining more players... real players... not all our multiple subs. CCP stop doing things that make player retention harder.

Stacy Lone wrote:
I'm not really sure that this change is healthy for the game over all.

Right now, WH space is the only space were new players can actually life [live] in and have some kind of their "own" system. I came to eve early this year, after having played some hours a year before. But this time I stuck with it.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#406 - 2014-09-01 19:15:40 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Timber Lynn wrote:
Think about this one....

I know there is outcry from wormholers that this makes living there untenable. From what I have read CCP wants you out of wormholes so making them unlivable is the goal. The problem is if people stop living there they will be barren. No one will go there.

They are the perfect incubater to teach the skills to move to NS corps or for groups to learn the skills to take SOV space.

Nothing will change EVE like retaining more players... real players... not all our multiple subs. CCP stop doing things that make player retention harder.

Stacy Lone wrote:
I'm not really sure that this change is healthy for the game over all.

Right now, WH space is the only space were new players can actually life [live] in and have some kind of their "own" system. I came to eve early this year, after having played some hours a year before. But this time I stuck with it.



They do claim that they are quite happy with people living in wormholes, but who knows what they are really thinking now?
Their actions and words seem disconnected from each other.

The thought of wormholes being incubators for nullsec, I really don't get that, yes wormholes are good training for difficult challenges, agreed, but as for living there? Please, no thanks, I would rather ........ Left to imagination. And I think most feel that way. In fact if wormholes are not a good place to be any more, then I do not think there is anywhere else until the new space, that could be called home for many. And that is too long to wait for.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Lord Noj
23rd Light Dragoons
The Corcu Loigde Alliance
#407 - 2014-09-01 20:27:21 UTC
Stacy Lone wrote:
I'm not really sure that this change is healthy for the game over all.

Right now, WH space is the only space were new players can actually life in and have some kind of their "own" system. I came to eve early this year, after having played some hours a year before. But this time I stuck with it.

As a new player, you quickly realize that you have not many options when you want to create your own space empire or jus get your own home. You can either join a big coalition and be meaningless with your subpar skills. HERO didn't exist back then, so getting your own piece of the universe (getting sov) simply wasn't an option, even if you started with some friends. And renting isn't an option, either. New players simply can not afford rent. We don#t have carriers to rat or else. So, my friends and I (5 players using more then 10 accounts by now) decided to give W-space a try.

We are now happily living an a C2 with static high sec and C3. By now, most of us fly their t3s very well and we use our C3 static regularly to kill sleepers. We even used our last c4 connection to go into the c4 and killed sleepers there. That went smoooth, and now we are giving it a thought to try to move into a c4 with static c4. We like that c4s are more quiet then other w-space systems.

Beign new players means we don't have much money. We already lost some t3s to roams due to inexperience and failure in getting the proper intel, but we get by.

If you can not longer close your home system, then w-space will be dead for newbies. And with it EVE, excpet for high sec. Sure, you can go roaming in low sec, but you can not have a "home" there. And you will probably need to make money in high sec. Getting into null and actually occupying some space is already impossible, so w-space is the last space were even noobs can plant a flag (or a pos ar two) and have their very own space home.

But if you can not close your home anymore, then you can not do mining anymore, which is an important base income. And if you can not find wormhole connections to wormholes that have only 1 or two additional connections so that you can watch (and maybe bubble) them, then we can not go kill sleepers anymore. Because well fit destroyer/frigate gang can still hurt inexperienced players in t3s with relatively small ISK risk.


What problem does this change try to solve anyways? Wspace is already full of very healthy fights, there's no need to make it even more uncontrollable. At last not in c1-c4. Maybe c5/c6 needs to be more spiced in order to kill capital escalation fleets easier, but there is certainly no need for frigate pvp in wspace in general.


I'm very concerned that some of these changes will hurt new, low-sp player with relatively small ISK very badly, while providing no real content to the already estabished, powerful wspace residents. I can't imagine the established, rich alliances getting fun out of trashing frigs.


Here here, well said. Just when i think they made some changes that will make me come back, ccp goes and does something that only benefits the big guys once again... roaming bands of frigate gangs in w space making those who are looking to make a living in w space lives miserable and w space once again less profitable than it should be....
Seraph Essael
Air
The Initiative.
#408 - 2014-09-01 20:31:00 UTC
Lord Noj wrote:
Stacy Lone wrote:
I'm not really sure that this change is healthy for the game over all.

Right now, WH space is the only space were new players can actually life in and have some kind of their "own" system. I came to eve early this year, after having played some hours a year before. But this time I stuck with it.

As a new player, you quickly realize that you have not many options when you want to create your own space empire or jus get your own home. You can either join a big coalition and be meaningless with your subpar skills. HERO didn't exist back then, so getting your own piece of the universe (getting sov) simply wasn't an option, even if you started with some friends. And renting isn't an option, either. New players simply can not afford rent. We don#t have carriers to rat or else. So, my friends and I (5 players using more then 10 accounts by now) decided to give W-space a try.

We are now happily living an a C2 with static high sec and C3. By now, most of us fly their t3s very well and we use our C3 static regularly to kill sleepers. We even used our last c4 connection to go into the c4 and killed sleepers there. That went smoooth, and now we are giving it a thought to try to move into a c4 with static c4. We like that c4s are more quiet then other w-space systems.

Beign new players means we don't have much money. We already lost some t3s to roams due to inexperience and failure in getting the proper intel, but we get by.

If you can not longer close your home system, then w-space will be dead for newbies. And with it EVE, excpet for high sec. Sure, you can go roaming in low sec, but you can not have a "home" there. And you will probably need to make money in high sec. Getting into null and actually occupying some space is already impossible, so w-space is the last space were even noobs can plant a flag (or a pos ar two) and have their very own space home.

But if you can not close your home anymore, then you can not do mining anymore, which is an important base income. And if you can not find wormhole connections to wormholes that have only 1 or two additional connections so that you can watch (and maybe bubble) them, then we can not go kill sleepers anymore. Because well fit destroyer/frigate gang can still hurt inexperienced players in t3s with relatively small ISK risk.


What problem does this change try to solve anyways? Wspace is already full of very healthy fights, there's no need to make it even more uncontrollable. At last not in c1-c4. Maybe c5/c6 needs to be more spiced in order to kill capital escalation fleets easier, but there is certainly no need for frigate pvp in wspace in general.


I'm very concerned that some of these changes will hurt new, low-sp player with relatively small ISK very badly, while providing no real content to the already estabished, powerful wspace residents. I can't imagine the established, rich alliances getting fun out of trashing frigs.


Here here, well said. Just when i think they made some changes that will make me come back, ccp goes and does something that only benefits the big guys once again... roaming bands of frigate gangs in w space making those who are looking to make a living in w space lives miserable and w space once again less profitable than it should be....

You could already have roaming bands of frigates so that's really a moot point. The issue people have with this is the inability to close the damned things and the sheer amount of them.

Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person."
Rei Moon
Perkone
Caldari State
#409 - 2014-09-01 21:19:25 UTC
Seraph Essael wrote:
Lord Noj wrote:
Stacy Lone wrote:
I'm not really sure that this change is healthy for the game over all.

Right now, WH space is the only space were new players can actually life in and have some kind of their "own" system. I came to eve early this year, after having played some hours a year before. But this time I stuck with it.

As a new player, you quickly realize that you have not many options when you want to create your own space empire or jus get your own home. You can either join a big coalition and be meaningless with your subpar skills. HERO didn't exist back then, so getting your own piece of the universe (getting sov) simply wasn't an option, even if you started with some friends. And renting isn't an option, either. New players simply can not afford rent. We don#t have carriers to rat or else. So, my friends and I (5 players using more then 10 accounts by now) decided to give W-space a try.

We are now happily living an a C2 with static high sec and C3. By now, most of us fly their t3s very well and we use our C3 static regularly to kill sleepers. We even used our last c4 connection to go into the c4 and killed sleepers there. That went smoooth, and now we are giving it a thought to try to move into a c4 with static c4. We like that c4s are more quiet then other w-space systems.

Beign new players means we don't have much money. We already lost some t3s to roams due to inexperience and failure in getting the proper intel, but we get by.

If you can not longer close your home system, then w-space will be dead for newbies. And with it EVE, excpet for high sec. Sure, you can go roaming in low sec, but you can not have a "home" there. And you will probably need to make money in high sec. Getting into null and actually occupying some space is already impossible, so w-space is the last space were even noobs can plant a flag (or a pos ar two) and have their very own space home.

But if you can not close your home anymore, then you can not do mining anymore, which is an important base income. And if you can not find wormhole connections to wormholes that have only 1 or two additional connections so that you can watch (and maybe bubble) them, then we can not go kill sleepers anymore. Because well fit destroyer/frigate gang can still hurt inexperienced players in t3s with relatively small ISK risk.


What problem does this change try to solve anyways? Wspace is already full of very healthy fights, there's no need to make it even more uncontrollable. At last not in c1-c4. Maybe c5/c6 needs to be more spiced in order to kill capital escalation fleets easier, but there is certainly no need for frigate pvp in wspace in general.


I'm very concerned that some of these changes will hurt new, low-sp player with relatively small ISK very badly, while providing no real content to the already estabished, powerful wspace residents. I can't imagine the established, rich alliances getting fun out of trashing frigs.


Here here, well said. Just when i think they made some changes that will make me come back, ccp goes and does something that only benefits the big guys once again... roaming bands of frigate gangs in w space making those who are looking to make a living in w space lives miserable and w space once again less profitable than it should be....

You could already have roaming bands of frigates so that's really a moot point. The issue people have with this is the inability to close the damned things and the sheer amount of them.

Yes. Also, unlike kspace, you can't really easily reship and come back into fight if you get podded during frig fights in wspace. So it's not that fun to have to make your way back through chains that maybe aren't even there anymore, for 1-3 minutes of frig joy. Useless holes.

Down the pole podcast "Annhhh"
Seraph Essael
Air
The Initiative.
#410 - 2014-09-01 21:22:59 UTC
Rei Moon wrote:
Yes. Also, unlike kspace, you can't really easily reship and come back into fight if you get podded during frig fights in wspace. So it's not that fun to have to make your way back through chains that maybe aren't even there anymore, for 1-3 minutes of frig joy. Useless holes.

Aye, I've taken to running round in a blank clone at the minute. Every other hole is a frigate one so there is literally no point in flying anything else if you want to scout a chain... Ridiculous!

Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person."
Winthorp
#411 - 2014-09-02 11:43:06 UTC
Rei Moon
Perkone
Caldari State
#412 - 2014-09-02 11:51:17 UTC
\ยค Mr. Winthorp!
Yes they are being patched Big smile
Now it's like Jester saying, hey I'm a troll,
which actually doesn't change the fact that he is
and a good one Blink

Down the pole podcast "Annhhh"
Moloney
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#413 - 2014-09-02 12:04:37 UTC
Timber Lynn wrote:
Think about this one....

I know there is outcry from wormholers that this makes living there untenable. From what I have read CCP wants you out of wormholes so making them unlivable is the goal. The problem is if people stop living there they will be barren. No one will go there.

They are the perfect incubater to teach the skills to move to NS corps or for groups to learn the skills to take SOV space.

Nothing will change EVE like retaining more players... real players... not all our multiple subs. CCP stop doing things that make player retention harder.

Stacy Lone wrote:
I'm not really sure that this change is healthy for the game over all.

Right now, WH space is the only space were new players can actually life [live] in and have some kind of their "own" system. I came to eve early this year, after having played some hours a year before. But this time I stuck with it.




Just a simple point on this.

Its been done before. And I emplore any group large enough to continue eradicating any null sec groups found in Wspace.
Kename Fin
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#414 - 2014-09-02 12:08:20 UTC
I was pleasantly surprised that they are dialing back the numbers on the new small size wormholes. It was getting quite ridiculous in a C4. Now with two statics, plus the increased number of incoming wormholes from other C4s, plus the number of new frigate sized holes, it was quite possibly the most scanning I've done in a long, long time.

Imagine my greater surprise to see one of the new small holes open up FROM our C4 into null. That's right - into null. The first ever connect our hole has ever had to k-space.

Is this intended behaviour? I know I am proud of the fact that C4s have not had k-space connections before and would really like that not to change now.
Rei Moon
Perkone
Caldari State
#415 - 2014-09-02 17:41:25 UTC
Hey glorious leader
yes, that completely destroys what C4s are supposedto be. No kspace connections.

Down the pole podcast "Annhhh"
Aureus Ahishatsu
Deadspace Knights
#416 - 2014-09-02 18:12:12 UTC
Trinkets friend wrote:
Saisin wrote:
Sto Lo wrote:
Well, i don't post very much but, CCP you screwed my C3 over supremely. I'm facing 6 wormhole connections daily . Now if i had 15 active players i might be able to live with that, but as it is i don't. We can't PVE, PVP or literally play EVE. I just jumped into a c4 off of my c3 it had 37 sigs, 37!! What have you done?

It will change

for the past two days I had only my static, not even loaded, after the initial flurry of frig sizes WH....


Yeah, well, dude you are in SWA. There's like, 700 guys in your corp. You can control your statics with 700 members in your corp.


Trinkets, you are awesome and I look forward to your narcissistic hilarious posts. But you of all people should know member count doesn't mean anything compared to active member counts. Also I don't know this guy but their corp probably has multiple wormholes so if he is in one with less people total corp count doesn't mean much. Just putting some possible perspectives.
Nigg-Nogg
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#417 - 2014-09-02 18:29:34 UTC  |  Edited by: MINMATAR CITIZEN 07180601
krazyskillz wrote:
Holy crap! You guys ever see the Captain America movies where Hydra always says something like "cut off one head, two grow in it's place". That's seriously what I feel like when closing a WH. You close one, two open.

On a side note, I wonder how much money CCP anticipated on making when people have to start paying for the game and can no longer plex because they deem it to high risk.


I'm willing to say not as much Considering most wh players with alts will probably let sub's expire if they're not making isk.
Jack Branigan
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#418 - 2014-09-02 18:32:16 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone.
As part of the ongoing followup to Hyperion we're going to be reducing the spawn rate of the WSpace-WSpace small ship wormholes at today's downtime. Note that existing connections will still be active for their lifetime so it will take a day or so before things level out at the new normal.

Keep the feedback coming our way. Thanks.


I know a good number for these.... little hint it comes before 1....
Jack Branigan
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#419 - 2014-09-02 18:34:11 UTC
On another note..... Stockpiling reserved nano-ribbons in 3.....2......1....
Aureus Ahishatsu
Deadspace Knights
#420 - 2014-09-02 20:57:51 UTC
Seraph Essael wrote:
So today I log in, see nine (9) cosmic signatures in my hole. So I start scanning. All nine are wormholes. Out of them nine, two (2) are my statics, three (3) are K162's and four (4) are wandering outbounds.

I was thinking 'excellent, let's go hunting'. Turns out I can only jump through two of them in my Tengu: My two statics.

The other seven holes are these frigate and destroyer sized holes.

Basically, are you (CCP) trying to force wormholers into using nothing but Frigates and Destroyers? Because that is pretty much all that you can use if you want to fully scout out or hunt now. This is stupid, you are cutting out the absolute majority of ships to use with this ridiculous addition.

I was actually all for these new holes at one point, thinking I do like my Stealth Bomber and my Inty, but the sheer number of these holes is staggeringly overwhelming. You are essentially trying to turn wormholes into another Factional Warfare, where everyone runs around in boosted frigates.

-1 from me, stupid tedius addition to wormholes.


I'm not disagreeing with you. But take heart. They reduced the spawning of these wh's now however current ones will still need to be cycled out. Regardless I along with the substantial majority of people here would be fine if they changed the repawn rate to never.