Wormholes

Winthorp read my post again, this is nothing about entitlement, i agree with you on that w-space has been hollowed out already.

the point is that these current changes are making things worse, and not improving things. Seeing you are feeling sorry for us as we live in a C2 :P we are pointing out that things already are declining and the emptiness will move up in C classes.

Your point about game devs ill take with a bit of salt, coming from the games industry, if you want to keep an enduring game, communication is key.

so if anything if this all is fixed in stone, then we should need more changes to make c1 to 4's to make them more appealing.

Also yeah frig holes... lets make a sand box where players are free to do what they want, but hey lets make something only for a limited ship size so we force them to use them...

Ok so what we have. We are living in C4 with C1+C3 which is not bad. We already left our old C4 with new C5 static (who would live there and why?).
- those stupid frigate WHs - useless but if we can not close it .. just why you add this?
- mass jump - its annoying but ok, we do not use capitals for closing so for BSs it not such big problem.
- second C4 static - you know why people lived in C4? because they wanted to be on edge of WHs .. no one wanted a second static. But ok, you can learn living with that (unless its C5/C6 - those will be empty forever)

And now what this patch did. We had in last 5 days in our C4 zero (= 0!) anomalies and only 2x data. Where the hell should we get money for living, ships, etc. With your stupid patch changes you moved so many corps out of C4 that no anomalies are done - so no new will spawn in same wh constalation. Good job, really
And second very funny thing - we have so many WHs (k162) connected to our C4 .. ok ok .. but if we close it, almost instantly NEW k162 will appear. Are you mad?! How can we go farm our static or our wh when there are always so many connections?

Just compare it to null. You have intel - so if you can read and you are not afk, you know about enemy enough time to go safe. There are always same gates so will know know from where enemy will come. You have local chat. You have unlimited anomalies - you can farm 23/7 same system .. like a robot. Nothing to scan, guard .. just make unlimited isk. Why the hell should someone live in WH? Just why? OK, its not all about the isk but you need them for playing. Only advantage of wh is that there is no cyno and "pro pvp" fleet sitting on titan waiting for bridge.

How about removing local from low, null. This would be cool right - more pvp. And how about wandering stargates. Fun right? This would kill EVE because people will stop playing. But who cares about wormholes, right? No one live there - yes right, after your patch, almost no one live there.

Good job ccp ..

I really just want to know which ******* turned CCP's gaze onto wormhole space. There were really only a handful of problems with WH's, but it seems the devs went all CCP on it. By this I mean they said "hey little corps, **** you".

Most large c5/6 corps have no problems with the changes as they have the numbers to adapt to the changes fairly easily. Lower class WH corps, and smaller corps like mine, are left struggling to figure out how to make life livable again in c1-4's. We have a perfect c4 for our corp. Great PI and a c3 static. Now we have a c5 second static, and have had our entire way of living in the wh changed. We've had to adapt new protocols for doing everything, and it still isn't working out all that well. Sites aren't spawning in our home hole that often, we have become a highway for high class wh corps, and we can't really collapse holes with any relative safety. With our home sites not spawning we figure hardly anyone is running sites in c4s right now.

This change has basically forced our corp to have a discussion on if we are going to remain in our current c4, and we all know the pain in the ass it is to evac out of a hole. I don't think my corp is the only one with this type of problem either.

This is also a very good point, a point that is reinforced by CCP saying they are looking at income levels and PVE income in WH's, corbexx is even gathering data on average site income to help get more ISK for certain classes of WH's.

Should they have buffed low end WH income with or before these changes? Possibly but the end is not nigh.

...Except that occasional losses in PvE are not inevitable, because you can run incursions all day long and risk nothing. Or you can get a nullsec alt and blue donut plex all day long with the safety of local and risk nothing. Or you can get into high-end manufacturing and/or trading and risk nothing (if done properly). Long list of things you can do now that make more isk/effort with less risk than wormhole sites (with the possible exception of escalations). Probably 10 other posters have been harping on this in just about every thread since Hyperion was introduced.

You're not gonna see your perfect world of everybody ganking everybody else. Its a pipe dream. Not until the risk vs. reward in wormholes makes sense again. Wormholes are not a closed system, but you are clearly making that assumption. That assumption is wrong.

Yes, I assume people choose first where they like to live gameplay-wise, and that they treat isk income as a secondary concern. I know many people are different, but I couldn't care less about those people.

Still, like I said, low-class income needs a buff. It was okay when ribbons netted 8m apiece, but with just over 3m it's a joke to run sites in c1/2, especially now when there is some actual risk involved.

You may not care for players who seek to optimize their isk/effort vs. risk, but that's the group that can fill w-space with targets and content unlike any other. There's very little loyalty in eve. Certainly not enough hardcore w-space only dudes to get the job done. So if you "care" about w-space you have to care about risk vs. reward compared to ALL the alternatives. At the end of the day that's the only thing that truly matters in terms of bringing in the content.

Having said thay I'm glad we see eye-to-eye on lower-class site payouts.

My opinion is that this might just be the result of CCPs new release schedule. Kronos was OK, new ships, rebalanced ships, and some new visuals. Crius was just the stuff that wasn't ready for Kronos.

Hyperion seems like the devs may not have had anything major to add so they just added something. We first found out about this on the test server by mistake, which prompted a devblog. We also saw a very quick turnaround on implementing them on the test server and going live on TQ. AND it's something that significantly changes one of the four areas of space. You would think there would be more testing and a bit more communication.

I can only say that at least we have somewhere other than the feedback on (topic) threads to voice our concern for our homes.

If it was just to increase the risk, it would be better ways to do that right? If its to easy to "escape" out of sites when someone roll into you. Why not make that escape harder to do? Closing and crit holes before start do sites, gives a rather false sense of security right?

If someone dial into you when doing escals in a c5/c6 and you just started your siege cycle and the guys dialed into you are ready to go, you pritty much committed to what happens next.

Just make NPC's make use of scrams and such more than they do (spread points or whatever). Should be applied to null sec as well. Combined with the K162 not spawning before someone go through, should increase the risk considerable doing sites.

When people experience so many wormholes spawn in your system, and they can't close or crit them, they wont do sites because the risk is to big for the possible gain. If a player think the outcome of doing something result in a loss all the time, it doesn't matter what the reward is.

ITT: Incursioners/Nullsec/Hisec/etc overestimating WH income, and WH overestimating Incursion income. We do know it's significantly easier to get into the lucrative Hisec/Incursion income than it is the lucrative W-space income, and when you're running the sites, Incursions are a lot safer. All else being equal (it isn't), risk vs reward, WH income should be higher.


Those happy with the current changes, finding people to kill as a result of them, congrats. The rest of us envy you. Unfortunately, history has shown that you're probably catching the ones who weren't prepared for the changes, who never bothered to read the patch notes, or who think they can get away with it anyway. All of those groups of people will learn that something has indeed changed and that they're not going to get away with doing what they've been doing up until now. Then they will make a decision that probably won't include feeding you more kills.

Please, though, kill them while you can. For all of us.

Only time will tell. Both the negatives and the positives of the changes are still too early to detect. The only thing that is a good measurement right now are all the towers coming down and people moving out. Oh, and people dropping accounts -- possibly why you're not seeing Dussettes lately. Remember, it can take months to a year for the subs to expire. Personally, I had re-subbed (only one account) for 3 months just before these changes were announced, and I'm still not sure what I want to do when that time runs out.


Since you're dropping names... Corbexx has been vocal about the spawn distance thing from day one and has been leading the charge to increase communication on it between CCP and players. In fact, ever since Corbexx has been CSM, communication between CCP and W-space residents has increased dramatically, even if most of it is one-way. There have been more CCP posts in these forums in the short time he has been in than the entire time we've had these forums. Stop and think about that and what that means for a moment, and how much he's pushing for W-space.

By contrast, even though you praise Chitsa, he advocated the mass spawn distance change that the majority hates. CCP says "Wormhole CSM" suggested/approved/recommended/whatever the change. Guess who that was? Right. But this isn't even a bash Chitsa thread.

If you had been reading the forums, you'd know how much work Corbexx has done, and you'd know where he stood. It's probably certain he hasn't approached every corp and alliance, but conversely, have you approached him? Have you tried get him to schedule time with your corp/alliance? You should do that, even if it's to say you support him, or to ask him for clarification on his stance instead of throwing coals at him. Your corp is well-respected. Don't trash their good name with garbage posts like this.

And let's not drop names or point fingers at each other like someone else said. There are some good things about this patch, and some really, really BAD things about this patch. Support our CSM and help him make our case to CCP by focusing on the points that suck with clear, calm, and rational points and counter-points.



Like many people have been saying, it takes time for these things to settle down. Overall, those of us who live here project that most of these changes will have negative consequences to the activity levels in W-space. In general, making changes to a part of something you have no clue about is bad. Time will tell who is right (if it even matters at that point).