These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Wormholes

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Hyperion Feedback Thread] Mass-Based Spawn Distance After WH Jumps

First post First post First post
Author
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1721 - 2014-08-31 09:52:53 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
*Snip* Removed off topic part of the post. ISD Ezwal.

The wormhole mass spawn distance change is destructive, to wormhole space, and to the game overall, and CCP's reputation and customer relations.

Introducing the "luck based" mechanic -where one lives or dies, not by ones abilities, training, tactics or skills, but only pure chance,- is absolutely despised, and wormhole players will make our own choices as to whether the game now has any meaning, and will vote both with our payments and with our movements and relocation.

It is a complete change of direction for the company, which up to now was proud that players made their own fate, we adapted, we worked around things, we persisted and overcame.

One can not overcome Luck, so why try anymore? a flip of a coin will have greater value than all of our efforts.

It is tragic, when the best outcome for EVE at this point is for wormhole space to completely empty, and the occupants to leave EVE altogether.
Otherwise Management will fail to learn and then proceed to destroy the rest of EVE.

Of course all will not, inertia is a powerful force.

Wormhole space contains comparatively few members so the test has comparatively small risks of large member loss, so If you live elsewhere, do not feel safe, If management succeed here with it's introduction.


Then Welcome to the new "funness" .
You are next.
All your efforts will also become irrelevant.


Sometimes I really think they are their own worst enemy.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

OMEGA REDUX
Last Resort Inn
#1722 - 2014-08-31 10:58:28 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Sentamon wrote:
Anyone remember the ice miner tears? 95% were against the change to remove unlimited ice. Now ice mining is better and more profitable then ever.

Adapt and quit crying. The only mistake CCP made was letting safe-holes go on for this long.

I mined ice before the changes and I'd rather have the old way rather than the current way as logging in and the ice belt either not being up (and you no idea how long until the next one spawns) or it so close to being empty that the only difference from the "not there" option is I at least know how long I have to wait on the next spawn. Ice prices are increasing because fewer people are mining it not because it's better. And don't even go suggesting I pick up the exhumer and go jumping to the other ice systems on the off chance they havent despawned as that takes way too much time in an exhumer.

*Snip* Removed reply to an edited out part of the post replied to. ISD Ezwal.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#1723 - 2014-08-31 11:32:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
Sentamon wrote:
Anyone remember the ice miner tears? 95% were against the change to remove unlimited ice. Now ice mining is better and more profitable then ever.

Adapt and quit crying. The only mistake CCP made was letting safe-holes go on for this long.


Personally its pretty easy for me to adapt, doesn't change that it adds tedium for largely no good reason and doesn't change that it tends to result in people either logging off or leaving wormholes which is not good at all.

Regarding "safe holes" you really have no clue.
Faren Shalni
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1724 - 2014-08-31 11:53:15 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
*Snip* Removed reply to a deleted posts. ISD Ezwal.

And btw we WH's have already adapted to this change we still keep going because we can field the people needed to combat this change (I feel sorry to the smaller guys who cant and therfore have left). but that doesn't mean we like having a piece of **** shoved down our throats and then being expected to say can I have another one

CCP needs to stop changing what works and Fix what's broken.

So Much Space

corbexx
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1725 - 2014-08-31 12:54:52 UTC
Faren Shalni wrote:

And btw we WH's have already adapted to this change we still keep going because we can field the people needed to combat this change (I feel sorry to the smaller guys who cant and therfore have left). but that doesn't mean we like having a piece of **** shoved down our throats and then being expected to say can I have another one

CCP needs to stop changing what works and Fix what's broken.


This is pretty much it bigger groups are fine. This isnt really affecting noho at all expect to make rage rolling mroe time consuming. Small groups like my alt group in a c4 are ****** (and probably moving out)

We attually caught our first cap the other day doing the warp to bounce, while we got a bubble on the wormhole. Worst this wasn't even a wh in our main system it was some one trying to close a wh in our static. I'll have to go chat to them see if they will continue to do that or not after being caught.

I'm hoping to get numbers soon and then see what they seem to show but as has already been said it might not be enough time yet to see changes.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1726 - 2014-08-31 14:03:56 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Lets move on and discuss the issues, the issue is not one of there being luck or no luck in Eve. Of course, one always encounters this in the holes that open, the drop of loot, or whether when missioning, you get dread pirate scarlet or a poor drone one.

Luck at this level is understandable, reasonable, and acceptable.

Where we move away from this is where it becomes totally unacceptable in any form.

EVE has always prided itself, in being a game where actions have consequences, when two players meet, the skills, training, experience, fittings, and use of the battlespace determine the outcome.

We all accept and live by this every day, we can lose all we have worked for in a moment, through bad choices, or just by being beaten by a better player.

We then pick ourselves up, rebuild and move on, hopefully learning, and always growing.

When this is replaced by a mechanic, where when one jumps through a hole, you will live or die depending on whether you are unlucky as to where you spawn, and no player choice, training, skill, tactics, or experience alters that.

Then they have completely devalued and made meaningless all the efforts the players have expended in the game up to that point.

I hope that explains the difference and what some find totally unacceptable.

Why play at all and make an effort, when everything you do can be undone by bad luck?

So that is the issue, it is literally a choice where one grinds for absolutely no purpose, as opposed to a universe where we make our own fate.

Do you see why minor tweaks and adjustments make no difference? And this toxic change Must either be rolled back or the players who see and understand it will leave?

There is no compromise.

EvE is either a game where player actions matter, or it is simply a lottery.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

JTK Fotheringham
Ducks in Outer Space
#1727 - 2014-08-31 14:24:03 UTC  |  Edited by: JTK Fotheringham
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Lets move on and discuss the issues, the issue is not one of there being luck or no luck in Eve. Of course, one always encounters this in the holes that open, the drop of loot, or whether when missioning, you get dread pirate scarlet or a poor drone one.

Luck at this level is understandable, reasonable, and acceptable.

Where we move away from this is where it becomes totally unacceptable in any form.

EVE has always prided itself, in being a game where actions have consequences, when two players meet, the skills, training, experience, fittings, and use of the battlespace determine the outcome.

We all accept and live by this every day, we can lose all we have worked for in a moment, through bad choices, or just by being beaten by a better player.

We then pick ourselves up, rebuild and move on, hopefully learning, and always growing.

When this is replaced by a mechanic, where when one jumps through a hole, you will live or die depending on whether you are unlucky as to where you spawn, and no player choice, training, skill, tactics, or experience alters that.

Then they have completely devalued and made meaningless all the efforts the players have expended in the game up to that point.

I hope that explains the difference and what some find totally unacceptable.

Why play at all and make an effort, when everything you do can be undone by bad luck?

So that is the issue, it is literally a choice where one grinds for absolutely no purpose, as opposed to a universe where we make our own fate.

Do you see why minor tweaks and adjustments make no difference? And this toxic change Must either be rolled back or the players who see and understand it will leave?

There is no compromise.

EvE is either a game where player actions matter, or it is simply a lottery.


1) Aaargh! You got top of page 100!!! (87? ISD's been busy... lol)

2) In terms of the mechanics, I actually agree. If I understand you correctly, you see this as something that offers players no chance as to the outcome. It is an environmental factor that has no workaround. (BTW, WH polarisation is another environmental factor we cannot control...)

3) What we are complaining about is firstly the way the environment was changed so abruptly, with little chance for feedback. It sucks bad.

4) I don't disagree with the nature of the problem, or with complains about how it was implemented. But I'm coming from 5+ years observing CCP development. Rollbacks don't happen. I just don't see CCP reverting to the old WH spawn mechanic. (If they do, I'll happily eat my hat.)

5) It's the path forward we disagree about. What I'm asking is how would we like to see it changed, if the old mechanic isn't reverted to.

Would you like a shorter spawn distance? (Devs have already indicated this is what THEY want to change)

Would you like a module that somehow enables you to reduce the spawn distance more noticeably? (I'm not sure this will work - a growing number of posts suggest the jump distance code is possibly broken, and may be no easy fix)

Would you like a module that greatly reduced travel time to get back within jump range? (This is actually my preferred option, and might be the only workable one left, if rolling back isn't on the table)

The one thing I'm certain of is that change is vital here. The old mechanic was reasonably low risk, and I'm willing to concede that. Risk had to increase, its just a question of how CP allows us to manage that risk effectively.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1728 - 2014-08-31 14:35:27 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
JTK Fotheringham wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Lets move on and discuss the issues, the issue is not one of there being luck or no luck in Eve. Of course, one always encounters this in the holes that open, the drop of loot, or whether when missioning, you get dread pirate scarlet or a poor drone one.

Luck at this level is understandable, reasonable, and acceptable.

Where we move away from this is where it becomes totally unacceptable in any form.

EVE has always prided itself, in being a game where actions have consequences, when two players meet, the skills, training, experience, fittings, and use of the battlespace determine the outcome.

We all accept and live by this every day, we can lose all we have worked for in a moment, through bad choices, or just by being beaten by a better player.

We then pick ourselves up, rebuild and move on, hopefully learning, and always growing.

When this is replaced by a mechanic, where when one jumps through a hole, you will live or die depending on whether you are unlucky as to where you spawn, and no player choice, training, skill, tactics, or experience alters that.

Then they have completely devalued and made meaningless all the efforts the players have expended in the game up to that point.

I hope that explains the difference and what some find totally unacceptable.

Why play at all and make an effort, when everything you do can be undone by bad luck?

So that is the issue, it is literally a choice where one grinds for absolutely no purpose, as opposed to a universe where we make our own fate.

Do you see why minor tweaks and adjustments make no difference? And this toxic change Must either be rolled back or the players who see and understand it will leave?

There is no compromise.

EvE is either a game where player actions matter, or it is simply a lottery.


1) Aaargh! You got top of page 100!!!

2) In terms of the mechanics, I actually agree. If I understand you correctly, you see this as something that offers players no chance as to the outcome. It is an environmental factor that has no workaround. (BTW, WH polarisation is another environmental factor we cannot control...)

3) What we are complaining about is firstly the way the environment was changed so abruptly, with little chance for feedback. It sucks bad.

4) I don't disagree with the nature of the problem, or with complains about how it was implemented. But I'm coming from 5+ years observing CCP development. Rollbacks don't happen. I just don't see CCP reverting to the old WH spawn mechanic. (If they do, I'll happily eat my hat.)

5) It's the path forward we disagree about. What I'm asking is how would we like to see it changed, if the old mechanic isn't reverted to.

Would you like a shorter spawn distance?

Would you like a module that somehow enables you to reduce the spawn distance more noticeably?

Would you like a module that greatly reduced travel time to get back within jump range? (This is actually my preferred option)

The one thing I'm certain of is that change is vital here. The old mechanic was reasonably low risk, and I'm willing to concede that. Risk had to increase, its just a question of how CP allows us to manage that risk effectively.


Wormhole polarisation is a limiting mechanic, it is something players can work with and integrate with their tactics.
If it randomly occured, we would have been having this discussion many years ago. However the designers at the time, will have realised just how bad an idea that would be, and made it a mechanic.

The actual declared goal, whilst I believe will fail to achieve the stated design goals, Is actually a secondary issue in this change.
If CCP still believe it is a desireable goal, a mechanic where the spawn distance is based on a physical limitation and not Luck, would have possibilities.

A proposal was made in the first few pages where the spawn distance, position, and speed was DIRECTLY decided by the speed, mass and direction of the jump , and that would have been logical.

It is of course easy to just reduce programming and coding time by replacing the mechanic with a RNG.

So the choice is literally, can players decide their fate through utilising all their knowledge and abilities or will they live or die by luck.

If it is just luck, then there is absolutely no point whatsoever in continuing, as one just becomes a hamster on the grind wheel, with no control of ones own destiny.

That is not an acceptable position for many to accept.

CCP will by their actions, or lack of, demonstrate which game they have decided it is.
Players will decide accordingly, and at an exponential rate once they realise what has occured, and what it means.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#1729 - 2014-08-31 19:31:17 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

The Rules:
3. Ranting is prohibited.

A rant is a post that is often filled with angry and counterproductive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and is helpful in development of the game and community. Rants are disruptive, and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise and clear manner while avoiding going off on rambling tangents.


4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.


5. Trolling is prohibited.

Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.


11. Discussion of forum moderation is prohibited.

The discussion of EVE Online forum moderation actions generally leads to flaming, trolling and baiting of our ISD CCL moderators. As such, this type of discussion is strictly prohibited under the forum rules. If you have questions regarding the actions of a moderator, please file a petition under the Community & Forums Category.


19. All posts must be related to EVE Online.

Posts regarding other companies and products or services are prohibited and any content of this nature will be removed. Posts regarding other games are however permitted on the Out of Pod Experience forum for the purposes of discussion only.


22. Post constructively.

Negative feedback can be very useful to further improve EVE Online provided that it is presented in a civil and factual manner. All users are encouraged to honestly express their feelings regarding EVE Online and how it can be improved. Posts that are non-constructive, insulting or in breach of the rules will be deleted regardless of how valid the ideas behind them may be. Users are also reminded that posting with a lack of content also constitutes non-constructive posting.


26. Off-topic posting is prohibited.

Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued.


30. Abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers is prohibited.

CCP operate a zero tolerance policy on abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers. This includes but is not limited to personal attacks, trolling, “outing” of CCP employee or ISD volunteer player identities, and the use of any former player identities when referring to the aforementioned parties.
Our forums are designed to be a place where players and developers can exchange ideas in a polite and friendly manner for the betterment of EVE Online. Players who attack or abuse employees of CCP, or ISD volunteers, will be permanently banned from the EVE Online forums across all their accounts with no recourse, and may also be subject to action against their game accounts.


31. Rumor mongering is prohibited.

Rumor threads and posts which are based off no actual solid information and are designed to either troll or annoy other users will be locked and removed. These kinds of threads and posts are detrimental to the well being and spirit of the EVE Online Community, and can create undue panic among forum users, as well as adding to the workload of our moderators.


33. Posting of chat logs outside the Crime & Punishment forum channel is prohibited.

The posting of chat logs between player parties is prohibited on all forum channels of the EVE Online forums, with the exception of the Crime & Punishment Channel where they can be posted as part of stories in the Pirate Story Thread.
Specific rules regarding the omission of pilot names apply in this instance. Further details can be found in the rules stickies in the Crime & Punishment forum channel.


34. Posting of kill reports outside of the Crime & Punishment forum channel is prohibited.

More often than not, posts of this nature are made with inflammatory intent and are designed to promote trolling and flaming. Therefore, the posting of links to kill reports from any third party site, or the direct copy-pasting of kill reports from in game is prohibited on all forum channels of the EVE Online Forums, with the exception of the Crime & Punishment Channel.
Specific rules regarding the omission of pilot names apply in this instance. Further details can be found in the rules stickies in the Crime & Punishment forum channel.



Thread re-opened

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

OMEGA REDUX
Last Resort Inn
#1730 - 2014-08-31 19:39:50 UTC
OMEGA REDUX wrote:
i wonder how long the above post of mine lasts before some ccp or isd deletes it because they want to be treated with oh so much respect but wont treat us the same.

edit: this is the reason i dont care if i get banned from posting on the forums http://i.imgur.com/jSSfu4V.jpg oh and i pay with plex so no need to worry about actually cancelling anything as i just don't buy plex

******* called it didn't I
Kirasten
Perkone
Caldari State
#1731 - 2014-08-31 19:45:56 UTC
ISDs are the greatest forum trolls. Well played.
Faren Shalni
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1732 - 2014-08-31 20:09:04 UTC
100 pages to 87......well played sir well played

So Much Space

Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#1733 - 2014-08-31 21:10:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Arya Regnar
The Morals and Ethics:
1. Please don't lie to us and try to keep a straight face afterwards.

If I post an offtopic thing on this forums and CCP devs don't read it did it really happen?

EvE-Mail me if you need anything.

Moloney
The Bilderberg Group
#1734 - 2014-08-31 21:31:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Moloney
ISD Ezwal wrote:
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

The Rules:
3. Ranting is prohibited.

A rant is a post that is often filled with angry and counterproductive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and is helpful in development of the game and community. Rants are disruptive, and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise and clear manner while avoiding going off on rambling tangents.


4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.


5. Trolling is prohibited.

Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.


11. Discussion of forum moderation is prohibited.

The discussion of EVE Online forum moderation actions generally leads to flaming, trolling and baiting of our ISD CCL moderators. As such, this type of discussion is strictly prohibited under the forum rules. If you have questions regarding the actions of a moderator, please file a petition under the Community & Forums Category.


19. All posts must be related to EVE Online.

Posts regarding other companies and products or services are prohibited and any content of this nature will be removed. Posts regarding other games are however permitted on the Out of Pod Experience forum for the purposes of discussion only.


22. Post constructively.

Negative feedback can be very useful to further improve EVE Online provided that it is presented in a civil and factual manner. All users are encouraged to honestly express their feelings regarding EVE Online and how it can be improved. Posts that are non-constructive, insulting or in breach of the rules will be deleted regardless of how valid the ideas behind them may be. Users are also reminded that posting with a lack of content also constitutes non-constructive posting.


26. Off-topic posting is prohibited.

Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued.


30. Abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers is prohibited.

CCP operate a zero tolerance policy on abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers. This includes but is not limited to personal attacks, trolling, “outing” of CCP employee or ISD volunteer player identities, and the use of any former player identities when referring to the aforementioned parties.
Our forums are designed to be a place where players and developers can exchange ideas in a polite and friendly manner for the betterment of EVE Online. Players who attack or abuse employees of CCP, or ISD volunteers, will be permanently banned from the EVE Online forums across all their accounts with no recourse, and may also be subject to action against their game accounts.


31. Rumor mongering is prohibited.

Rumor threads and posts which are based off no actual solid information and are designed to either troll or annoy other users will be locked and removed. These kinds of threads and posts are detrimental to the well being and spirit of the EVE Online Community, and can create undue panic among forum users, as well as adding to the workload of our moderators.


33. Posting of chat logs outside the Crime & Punishment forum channel is prohibited.

The posting of chat logs between player parties is prohibited on all forum channels of the EVE Online forums, with the exception of the Crime & Punishment Channel where they can be posted as part of stories in the Pirate Story Thread.
Specific rules regarding the omission of pilot names apply in this instance. Further details can be found in the rules stickies in the Crime & Punishment forum channel.


yada yada......




Everything in this thread is feedback including any discus tat your past and continuing actions / lack of actions.

Repeating the FEEDBACK: start listening to the changes that are wanted. Stop implementing changes that are stated as unwanted by the majority o fthe community that uses this part of the game.

One of the main problems here is that this is not just a simple change but instead a change that has major impact on an entire area of the game.

People have chosen to work in this area of the game because they like how it works.

For many it is not that there are other areas of that at game that they will move on to, instead it will be other games.

I do not really care what your intention is regarding player built star gates or anything else k-space has to offer. Small wormhole corporations were a game play possibility since the addition of wormholes to eve.

You have now removed this part of the game. To what end? How many players have you lost? Are you trying to close the server down by eliminating all areas for new players and growing groups?
Jack Miton
Perkone
Caldari State
#1735 - 2014-08-31 21:55:00 UTC
Cutting 13 pages is nothing short of censorship.
Doing this on the WH forums is a guaranteed way to kill a thread instantly, thanks ISD.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout

epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1736 - 2014-08-31 22:06:35 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Wow!

It appears that, Something touched a nerve.Shocked

Did they learn something about disaster management from incarna? Or is that a naïve conclusion?

It will be interesting to see what follows now, do they recover their footing, and we can all move forward together?

Or not.

All has been said, all that is left are actions or lack of them, we are of no value as a medium beyond this point, discussion now is without meaning, as they completely, totally, and clearly know that this was the point where decisions are made, and choices decided. And they know our viewpoints and breaking points.

There is no misunderstanding possible now.

All that remains are for CCP to ignore or rectify. Both are actions, even by omission.
Spin and disinformation will just be nothing more than an additional insult.
We are far beyond that stage.

We wait to see the actions taken.
Tomorrow, a fresh day will answer us. Incontrovertibly.

And the decisions, and choices we have prepared for, move into their final expression.

So we move, we leave, we cease to pay, or we accept what has been chosen for us.
There is no shame in anyone of us accepting what we are told to accept, but neither will there be any respect.

We are not going to rage, to make pointless gestures, to beat our chests and burn some meaningless group of pixels.

Our choice has become accept or do not.

And our actions will be the answer.

Nothing is left but to hear the answer or silence that starts that new and hopeful, or deeply regretted and saddening day.

Many thanks to the CSM especially Corbexx, for passing on our messages and concerns, many thanks to all the players, who have given such excellent, clear and understandable recommendations, and to those with many years of experience who have shared their knowledge and wisdom, and thanks to those who have contained their anger and frustration, enabling the message to be passed clearly on to CCP. It cannot have been easy.

This has shown the wormhole community in the best possible light.

Good luck to us all.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#1737 - 2014-08-31 22:49:15 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
There seems to be some confusion about the task of ISD's CCL division on this forum.
Cleaning a thread of rule breaking posts has nothing to do with the content of said thread, it has to do with upholding the forum rules.

To quote two posts made by me in other threads on that:
ISD Ezwal wrote:
Please people, it's perfectly fine to disagree with each other and to post your opinions or a reaction on the opinion of others without resorting to profanity or personal attacks. In other words, it is possible to do so without breaking the rules.

For example: 'Oh go hang yourself you bloody moron, I'm sick of you blabbering your pigshit all over this thread!' would most certainly get removed. It probably even gets you reported to CCP.
On the other hand 'I can not put forward strongly enough the fact that I totally disagree with your line of thinking. I might even add I would find great difficulty in living with myself if I where to share your point of view!' would not.
And in essence it says the same....Cool
ISD Ezwal wrote:
As there seems to be a bit of confusion as to why certain posts get deleted even if they are perceived not to be rule breaking, a little bit of explanation might be in order.
If a post is found to be rule breaking it either gets edited or it gets deleted. If the latter, all posts quoting them (or replying to them without direct quoting) AND all post reacting on those quotes/replies get deleted as well for thread consistency. Even if those posts are not rule breaking in and of themselves.
As an addition, the same goes for replies to edited out parts of the post they quote.

For example: Post A is rule breaking and gets deleted. B replies to A, C replies to A, D however replies to B and E to K reply to D.
The entire string of posts gets deleted because A is the origin of that string of posts.

Please accept this explanation as is and do not reply to it. That would be off the topic of this thread.
If you are perceiving a problem with ISD behaviour on the forum or are disagreeing with the way (your) posts are being moderated, please feel free to read the CCP policies and follow the procedure found under the header 'Complaints'


So please keep it on topic and above all civil from here on!

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Kirasten
Perkone
Caldari State
#1738 - 2014-08-31 22:54:46 UTC
ISD Ezwal wrote:
There seems to be some confusion about the task of ISD's CCL division on this forum.
Cleaning a thread of rule breaking posts has nothing to do with the content of said thread, it has to do with upholding the forum rules.

To quote two posts made by me in other threads on that:
ISD Ezwal wrote:
Please people, it's perfectly fine to disagree with each other and to post your opinions or a reaction on the opinion of others without resorting to profanity or personal attacks. In other words, it is possible to do so without breaking the rules.

For example: 'Oh go hang yourself you bloody moron, I'm sick of you blabbering your pigshit all over this thread!' would most certainly get removed. It probably even gets you reported to CCP.
On the other hand 'I can not put forward strongly enough the fact that I totally disagree with your line of thinking. I might even add I would find great difficulty in living with myself if I where to share your point of view!' would not.
And in essence it says the same....Cool
ISD Ezwal wrote:
As there seems to be a bit of confusion as to why certain posts get deleted even if they are perceived not to be rule breaking, a little bit of explanation might be in order.
If a post is found to be rule breaking it either gets edited or it gets deleted. If the latter, all posts quoting them (or replying to them without direct quoting) AND all post reacting on those quotes/replies get deleted as well for thread consistency. Even if those posts are not rule breaking in and of themselves.
As an addition, the same goes for replies to edited out parts of the post they quote.

For example: Post A is rule breaking and gets deleted. B replies to A, C replies to A, D however replies to B and E to K reply to D.
The entire string of posts gets deleted because A is the origin of that string of posts.

Please accept this explanation as is and do not reply to it. That would be off the topic of this thread.
If you are perceiving a problem with ISD behaviour on the forum or are disagreeing with the way (your) posts are being moderated, please feel free to read the CCP policies and follow the procedure found under the header 'Complaints'


So please keep it on topic and above all civil from here on!


I am never quoting anything ever again.
Valenthe de Celine
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1739 - 2014-08-31 23:46:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Valenthe de Celine
Hmmm. It seems several of my posts that folks liked were removed during the 13 pages that disappeared while I was asleep.

Without directly responding to the moderation performed, it does beg for something to be said on the matter. Of course, anything I would want to say is going to get deleted under the list of rules quoted repeatedly. So I'll just demonstrate my non-specific annoyance over not knowing what these alerts of folks liking things I said had to do with, as it was late and I'm not sure I can recall anymore what was typed.

To conclude, I dislike the mass based spawn range changes due to the added complexity of having to now train into a webbing intercepter for every pilot in my WH corp. We are choosing to do the webbing tactic wherein 5 ships jump the wormhole, 2 interceptors and then the battleship, orca, and dread. We bounce all ships out to the interceptor, under webs, and back to the hole in around 30 seconds. Takes coordination and a bit of practice. Still it's annoying and at great risk of losing ships. But we're all sick of sitting in a POS bubble with our thumbs up our backsides.
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
Goonswarm Federation
#1740 - 2014-08-31 23:58:44 UTC
y'all do realize that feedback can be received and not acted upon without breaking the general social contract of the solicitation of feedback right

shoot I got a lot of stuff that I don't like about the game but me agreeing or disagreeing with a change in a feedback thread is not the sole arbitrator of whether or not a thing goes into the game

sometimes balance changes have to go through, that is the way it is