Intergalactic Summit

Sorry, I just couldn't resist making a jab about the empirically demonstrable existence of oxygen.

You and I have gone over that argument far too often, so I'm going to back down now.

I am, for lack of a better metaphor, a reed. I will bend to achieve my goals. This in no way means that the means may not disgust me. Only that the ends can justify it.

If that justification implies a "moral framework" to achieve goals, then this moral framework could to some be considered quite "liberal". Though I weep to kill, it does not mean I will not kill. It means I will learn to aquiesce, and not belittle my tears, or make them irrlevant, or delete their need entirely.

I could kill an 'innocent' man with a monoedged knife. It does not mean I will not bear the repercussions within me.

People fear to cross morals in a fear of causing regrets or pain. We were taught crossign "lines" will do so. The lesson is to embrace ones regrets, and aquiesce to their existence, and still be able to function.

As they say, to kill a capsuleer is to kill their spirit. Uncrossable moral codes are cracks in armor. Eventually, someone can make you cross them; without a comforting reason, without a sense of self justification, without a dismissable "reason it happened".

It is not healthy to build walls around oneself to prevent pain, and once these walls are crossed or shattered, to let one's spirit die piece by peice for their 'sin' or 'wrongdoing'. It is the ability to overome this pain and thrive anyway and to accept consequences fully.

To break your own chains will cause pain. Do not make pain as a second chain as a replacement because you miss the feel of the first one.

The chains are what makes us humans.
From my opinion, they aren't cracks in armor, they are the armor. They hold our spirit in place and make us grow to heights, instead of splashing all over the place. Love, duty, morals, laws, loyalties... they might confine us, limit, but they also support us, they make us better humans, guide us to help each other and build better societies, and in better societies we develop ourselves as the society develops.
Without these chains humanity will get... freedom, it might turn into a pack of wild animals, running in different directions just to satiate their primitive needs. Without combined effort, such society would pass through stagnation to degradation, and in the end everyone will be deprived of comfort, wasting their lives on biting each other necks for just a tiny place to sleep or a crumb of food.

We do not know what we are capable of until a moral dilemma presents itself.


There is an ancient moral dilemma exercise for terran philosophy students:

You are a man conducting a passenger train (a rail driven combustible engine), just one car and has no passengers. All of a sudden the brakes fail, and you're going at top speed. Up ahead are 5 railroad workers on the track and you can't stop the train from hitting them. However you see a switch in the track, and the track leads to just one worker working on the rail. What do you do?

Most students would answer along the lines of "I'll switch the track so I only hit one person instead of five". Logically this makes sense.

But what if instead of being the conductor, you were a pedestrian on top of a bridge overlooking the track, and you see what is about to happen with the train and workers. And on this bridge is an exceptionally fat man, leaning over the rail. You figure that you could push this really fat man onto the track and he'll stop the train and save the workers. Would you do it?

Same exchange of life.. take one life to save five. Yet I imagine most people wouldn't push the man. They don't want to be responsible, and would rather let 'fate' decide for them, because they can't make the hard decisions when confronted.

Terrans are those of us who lived long before settling this cluster as far as I understand.

I am not a student of philosophy or social sciences so would not know the proper definition. The semantics questions concerning my statement are irrelevant to the statement itself, and seem to suggest you missed the point by a long shot.

Thanks for sharing some questions from Kanah university.

If you were a Caldari, Mr. Xin, you would say and imagine, that the most people WOULD push the man.
I would push him myself without second thought. And from Caldari point of view, this killing would be the right thing to do, and ignoring it to let the fate decide, would be amoral and cowardly action, that only gallenteans with their wicked morals take.

Hey! It's you, doing exactly that thing everyone is sick of you doing!

I have to say, I haven't spoken up much, but you've caused me to think quite a bit in the past, Kim-haani, so I should thank you. I doubt anything I say could ever sway you, so I don't think the goal is to try, but discussion is always welcome.



Oh, I think at least some of us realize you can't avoid doing harm basically no matter what you do. That's especially true for us Capsuleers. And it's not an excuse to not do anything. Similarly, doing good for yourself or for others inadvertently can harm people too. I think intent plays quite a large role, and the size of your 'good'.

I think a lot of people would define 'doing good things for themselves' as doing evil, too.
Good in respects to morality is generally defined as doing good 'for others' as opposed to yourself. I don't know if I entirely agree, but I suspect you think we don't do that at all over here, and that would really be a sad state of affairs.



I'm not sure 'eagerness' is really the right word. Personally, I wasn't exactly 'stoked'. I can't speak for any of my brothers and sisters about how we feel about something like this. (In fact, even calling them that feels a little weird) - And in that regard, I think a lot of Caldari have that boon of collective you mention. If it's really as strong as you say, should take advantage of that more, really.

It's not how our history has shaped the way we have to live now, however. The Federation gets flack as it is over attempts to make its members more cohesive, and I don't really think it should continue since it's insensitive to those we have, to differing degrees, harmed in the past. I recognize that we give up a sense of community for the ideal that we let people live the way they want to, with their own cultures. Whatever attempt we have made towards that is in fact what makes us individualistic. The attempt and the concept is something we still want to protect. All that said, we don't get to have a nationwide community the way you define it, like this.



I think... I have never thought about having only hedonism. Or only freedom?
I'd be interested to see how you describe what those would be like.



I admit I'm a little skeptical about your actual figures but if you're alluding to suicide rates among Capsuleers in general, I'm not really surprised to be honest...

I remember you've mentioned something about Capsuleers being 'born' each time, actually. So if you mean that the clone only lasts a few months at a time, then yes, I suppose that statistic stands, if not even more! But I would like to count a life as whichever single consciousness though. It's not the traditional standard for the word I suppose, but these aren't particularly traditional times. The Intaki have a very interesting take on that too, if you're interested.

Our crews were more what I was talking about regarding risk. And civilians, when structures are also considered.

Enough will be enough when permanent peace exists. I believe volition and permanent peace to be at odds with one another therefore my mission is assist in the eradication of volition, so that such a permanent peace can be attained. We all have disparate motives and goals, yet so few have realized that no peace can be permanent so long as we do.

I suppose my causes are to continue accumulating ISK and find someone with whom to share it. On the first point, I already have enough, but my income does exceed my expenses, so I keep collecting more. On the second point, I'm basically just offering loyalty and a showering of gifts.

I like to think I'm not particularly extreme in my pursuits. Perhaps I'm simply lazy. Maybe it's both.