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Number of active pilots in FW / Auto-kick inactive players.

Author
Njord Vanir
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2014-08-27 15:57:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Njord Vanir
According to the militia tab, the numbers of pilots for the four militias currently are:

Caldari: 5299
Gallente: 6145
Amarr: 3957
Minmatar: 4711

However, everyone knows that many, if not most of these pilots' accounts are inactive and have been for a long time,
so that this part of the statistic is simply useless.

Since it would be very desireable after all to know how many actually active players are currently enlisted in each
militia, I hereby propose to fix this by either of the following options:

A) List active players (i.e. online within the last X days, engaged in PVP vs WTs within the last 30 days based on KMs) on an additional tab or get rid of the old tab entirely, because who cares about how many inactive accounts are in there anyway?

B) Auto-kick pilots with no paying subscription from FW, moving them to an NPC corp.
Auto-kick pilots who haven't been online for X days from FW, moving them to an NPC corp.


I'm interested in this because the first step in fixing FW has to be able to assess player data properly, which is impossible with the way things are now.

CCP, would any of this be doable within reasonable time?

o/
Njord
Epikurus
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2014-08-27 16:05:17 UTC
Njord Vanir wrote:
According to the militia tab, the numbers of pilots for the four militias currently are:

Caldari: 5299
Gallente: 6145
Amarr: 3957
Minmatar: 4711

However, everyone knows that many, if not most of these pilots' accounts are inactive and have been for a long time,
so that this part of the statistic is simply useless.

Since it would be very desireable after all to know how many actually active players are currently enlisted in each
militia, I hereby propose to fix this by either of the following options:

A) List active players (i.e. online within the last X days, engaged in PVP vs WTs within the last 30 days based on KMs) on an additional tab or get rid of the old tab entirely, because who care about how many inactive accounts are in there anyway?

B) Auto-kick pilots with no paying subscription from FW, moving them to an NPC corp.
Auto-kick pilots who haven't been online for X days from FW, moving them to an NPC corp.


I'm interested in this because the first step in fixing FW has to be able to assess player data properly, which is impossible with the way things are now.

CCP, would any of this be doable within reasonable time?

o/
Njord


Excellent idea with no down-side that I can see (as long as the inactivity periods are appropriate). However, this would have to apply only to the NPC FW corps and would, thus, provide only a partial improvement to the accuracy of the data.

What I would REALLY like is a list of all the corps enlisted on all sides. I assume that this data is available from the API and exists invisibly in the belly of the killboards but if someone could collate it for me or show me how to read it I would be so happy.
Njord Vanir
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3 - 2014-08-27 16:13:52 UTC
Epikurus wrote:

Excellent idea with no down-side that I can see (as long as the inactivity periods are appropriate). However, this would have to apply only to the NPC FW corps and would, thus, provide only a partial improvement to the accuracy of the data.

What I would REALLY like is a list of all the corps enlisted on all sides. I assume that this data is available from the API and exists invisibly in the belly of the killboards but if someone could collate it for me or show me how to read it I would be so happy.



I'm not even sure how these numbers are generated. Members of all corps and alliances enlisted with an FW faction would make most sense, let's hope it's that.
If those numbers only reflected the number of enlisted pilots in the NPC FW corps, then they'd be even more useless.
Does anybody know this for sure?

In short, what I find would be extremely useful to have is a number of active pilots in each militia, regardless of their corp/ally.

o/
JAF Anders
Adenosine Inhibition
#4 - 2014-08-27 17:14:24 UTC
The last time Gallente won the warzone, CCP came up with a script that pulled LP gains from a certain time frame. This technology could be used to truncate the inactive, yet enrolled, capsuleers from the militia tab.

The pursuit of excellence and stabbed plexing alts.

Deacon Abox
Black Eagle5
#5 - 2014-08-27 18:27:37 UTC
JAF Anders wrote:
The last time Gallente won the warzone, CCP came up with a script that pulled LP gains from a certain time frame. This technology could be used to truncate the inactive, yet enrolled, capsuleers from the militia tab.

Of course the better script would pull killmails from the relevant time frame :P

CCP, there are off buttons for ship explosions, missile effects, turret effects, etc. "Immersion" does not seem to be harmed by those. So, [u]please[/u] give us a persisting off button for the jump gate and autoscan visuals.

Irya Boone
The Scope
#6 - 2014-08-27 18:30:31 UTC
Question will be:

When did you kick the pilot from the FW after 1 month ,2 month 6 month of inactivity?
what about people in player corp?
Why now ? Roll because when Test join calmil with 3000 pilots no one asked for a real count of pilots in FW but now suddenly ...

CCP it's time to remove Off Grid Boost and Put Them on Killmail too, add Logi on killmails .... Open that damn door !!

you shall all bow and pray BoB

Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#7 - 2014-08-27 18:35:53 UTC
I think it would be satisfactory just to count the characters who have logged in during the last 3 months. That could then include and exclude toons regardless of their current corp.
Njord Vanir
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#8 - 2014-08-27 18:50:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Njord Vanir
Irya Boone wrote:
Question will be:

When did you kick the pilot from the FW after 1 month ,2 month 6 month of inactivity?
what about people in player corp?
Why now ? Roll because when Test join calmil with 3000 pilots no one asked for a real count of pilots in FW but now suddenly ...




Now is as good a time as any. But, since the latest FW cycle has come to and end with people leaving FW or EVE as a result on both sides now, we ultimately will have to come up with a plan to make the whole FW system more fun / less broken.
And a simple headcount really would be the first step, don't you agree?

It's surprising that doesn't really exist...

o/
Njord
Irya Boone
The Scope
#9 - 2014-08-27 19:31:03 UTC
it's exist it's the number in the FW wintow stats and we must understand :

If ccp go and kick inactive players from FW ( means NPC militia AND players corp) why would they do that ?and if so why not for 0.0 /WH/high sec corps too , so ccp will get in the game and kick one your corpmate who is AFK because he was'nt log for 2 months ?

CCP it's time to remove Off Grid Boost and Put Them on Killmail too, add Logi on killmails .... Open that damn door !!

you shall all bow and pray BoB

Njord Vanir
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#10 - 2014-08-27 23:51:52 UTC
Irya Boone wrote:
it's exist it's the number in the FW wintow stats and we must understand :

If ccp go and kick inactive players from FW ( means NPC militia AND players corp) why would they do that ?and if so why not for 0.0 /WH/high sec corps too , so ccp will get in the game and kick one your corpmate who is AFK because he was'nt log for 2 months ?



In a corp, when somebody goes ahead and says: "Guys, I'm quitting the game." 8 out of 10 people will probably quit corp first.
If not, then 8 out of 10 CEOs will kick them eventually, since most people aren't interested in phantom numbers.

In the NPC corp however, nothing of this kind seems to happen, which is why you end up with dead bodies over dead bodies in the statistics. Fixing this would be a big improvement in itself.

And it would also be kind of nice to know how many people from either side were actually actively fighting in a given period of time, which could possibly even have a future use as a rewards modifier for understaffed faction militias to get at least one negative feedback loop into FW mechanics.

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#11 - 2014-08-28 00:42:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
So it used to show the number of pilots even if the account was inactive/unsubbed. Now I believe it only shows active accounts.

Just to be clear an "active account" is one that is paid for and the player can log in to that character. Whether they do log in to that character is a different question.

Aren't there battle reports that give the number of people who fought in a certain system at a certain time?
We had them in huola.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#12 - 2014-08-28 20:26:00 UTC
Actually, I don't think it has to be paid for. I have 2 friends who use to play, and they stopped. Their accounts still show even though I know they have not subbed or logged in for over 2 years. As far as I know, CCP does not delete accounts for inactivity.
Carlatto
False Profits
#13 - 2014-08-28 20:59:31 UTC
If accounts sit inactive and hasn't been plexed in 2 months, the character should be put back into NPC corp.
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#14 - 2014-08-28 21:41:20 UTC
Federal Defense Union (FDU) is a NPC Corp.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#15 - 2014-08-28 22:13:33 UTC
I think the numbers given by CCP are "active" pilots - meaning unsubbed accounts and maybe some others aren't counted.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#16 - 2014-08-29 00:30:26 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
Actually, I don't think it has to be paid for. I have 2 friends who use to play, and they stopped. Their accounts still show even though I know they have not subbed or logged in for over 2 years. As far as I know, CCP does not delete accounts for inactivity.


Maybe we are not talking about the same thing. Do you mean the number of players in militia in the faction war window? How would you know they were still being counted?

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Fourteen Maken
Karma and Causality
#17 - 2014-08-31 07:06:13 UTC
Carlatto wrote:
If accounts sit inactive and hasn't been plexed in 2 months, the character should be put back into NPC corp.


It's a good idea, but what about accounts in player corps who just took a break from the game? It would be easy to dump accounts out of the NPC militia corps, but it gets complicated removing them from player corps.
Rahelis
Doomheim
#18 - 2014-08-31 07:38:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Rahelis
Njord, we do not know how CCP got that numbers.

And statistics are only interesting in what they do not show in the first place.


If you simply look and the mili chats you see only 100+ to 300 capsuleers. Less post there. The ppl that read the mili channels are most often capsuleers form opposing militas - there is simply no reason the read your own mili chat.

If you roam the farmzone you find 50+ active capsullers in each milita. Most are activly farming in frigs and cruisers. We have 3 big time zones (eu, us, au) - give eu and us two intervalls of capsuleer activity and au one, the you have about 250 capsuleers active in each miltia per day - about a 1000 capsuleers in all. 90% are farmers.

That is way 5-10 active players can make a big impact in FW - Xgal and a vaild example.

If you look at active farmfleets you barley find 30+ fleets - most 30+ farmfleets only exist to bash ihubs and consist of bombers, some cruisers and frigs and some BCs on occasion.



The other side: In a Concord sanctioned war, why would you get free intelligence on your opponents?

The best way to do FW is to war dec farming corps ot the other side and attack their assets and farmers in high sec, where they live. For that you have to leave FW, of course.

Hidden Snake tried just that - but the cal mil never unterstood this concept.
Tyburn Stannis
Xenon Salvage Inc.
#19 - 2014-08-31 13:21:06 UTC
Carlatto wrote:
If accounts sit inactive and hasn't been plexed in 2 months, the character should be put back into NPC corp.


Why? If someone is inactive in a "normal" player corp they can be removed by a director. If all the directors are inactive, players are probably best leaving themselves. If someone is inactive in their own 1-man (or 1-player) corp why is it anyone else's business if they're subbed or not.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#20 - 2014-09-01 00:47:11 UTC
i wonder why it is so important to know active pilot numbers on militia which is full of randoms anyway.
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