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Has EVE's overall player base IQ gone down?

First post
Author
Nicolai Serkanner
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#81 - 2014-08-30 18:40:24 UTC
LazyDeer wrote:
I read the forums every now and then and all I see is so many players crying about game mechanics. Like ganking haulers and miners, scams in jita, Wardecs being a greifer tool, High sec not safe and more. Thing is, this has been going on all the time, and puzzles me how people can't learn from the past? So is EVE's overall IQ dropping?




What is IQ?
Solecist Project
#82 - 2014-08-30 19:52:00 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Why might this be the case sol?

Thank you, for not being blindly consumed by hatred like so many others
who simply react to what they read, instead of having deeper thoughts.

Thank you so much for not being consumed by the ego illness that
dominates the minds of the people in General Discussions!

I would, btw, like to know how you avoid from being infected!
I do feel like that's relevant for the point and others might actually
be able to use it for their own good.


Thank you for listening, I will explain!

*breathes in deeply*


This might be a bit longer and I do need to reach out a bit,
so I can provide context for your minds to work with.

Please note that I did not and do not feel the need to read this article.


The small TL;DR is ...

The reason why he connects reaction time with intelligence is
because the longer the brain has time to process input before a response,
the less automatic and pattern based the reaction will be!


I use the "time to process input" mechanic for my erotic roleplaying.


The way I express seperate actions in seperate lines delayed by time
gives the reader's mind time to let the written word "sink in",
creating a more engaging experience!


I can not show you that on the forums,
because there is no time delay between individual lines.

I did, though, show it to quite a few people who might or might not read and respond.

Anyhow ...



What we are talking about ...
... and what is affecting the people of GD ...
... is related to this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automaticity


Let's use the computer analogy.
It works well enough and everyone grasps it.


So, imagine your brain is a computer.


Yes, this is connected and displays a bit how the mind works.


Do you know the weird thing when you want to remember something, but you can't?
It slipped your mind and you can't access the memory.


Though once you stopped thinking about it,
your mind eventually digs it out and you suddenly recall.



Everyone eventually has this happen in his life.
It is pretty common! But why is this happening?


It is happening, because once one stops searching, (aka giving the command)
the "back of the mind" has time to dig out the memory.


You gave the order into your brain ...
... and your brain starts to dig.


When you keep trying to find the memory,
then you interrupt the search process.

The key thing here is the fact that the mind works in the back,
as long as there is no attention given to the process itself!


The wikipedia article actually talks about this.
Quote:
Automaticity can be disrupted by explicit attention when the devotion of conscious attention to the pattern alters the content or timing of that pattern itself.


When one pays explicit attention to finding the memory,
the brain is unable to find said memory,
because you pay attention to finding it.


The context in the article is different,
but the mechanics regarding the interrupt are the same!


Now how is that connected to reaction time
and the idea that intelligence is connected to it?


Easy. We can derive from above that the mind is able to disrupt working processes.
We issue a command and the mind works it out. If we pay attention to the process,
then the mind is being interrupted and can not process!



Specifically in context I want to point out this part:
Quote:
But when given the request with what sounds like a reason but isn't,
compliance jumped back to 93%. Langer, Chanowitz, and Blank are convinced
that most human behavior falls into automatic response patterns.



Now, to close the circle...


The reason why people are compliant,
even although it just SOUNDS like a reason but actually isn't,
is because of the reaction time!


People who would have given the brain time to let the input be properly processed,
would have realised that there was no actual reason given!


Instead, they simply reacted! They heard it,
the brain came up with a pattern that fits and the reaction was given.


There are many reasons why people just react mindlessly,
but I will point out one example most people directly or indirectly know.
It shows how it works.


You know that from verbal fights, most probably,
when people start mindlessly throwing words at each other at a faster and faster pace,
instead of just listening and letting the input be processed before a response is given!

It ends with people overreacting and slapping others, (or worse, sadly)
leading to them regretting it and saying "I did not want to do that!"



But he did!
Why?
Pattern based behaviour!
Automatism!
No conscious thought!



There is an observation I have made years ago.

The shorter the reaction time, the stronger the automatism.


It is easily noticeable who actually puts proper thought into a conversation
simply by observing how long the person takes to respond to input.


It is also recogniseable when a person actually thinks about what is told to him,
compared to a person who does not.




THE BIG TL;DR:

The reason why one could assume that reaction time and intellect are connected,
is because the longer one thinks about something, the less stupid the response will be!


Case in point: GENERAL DISCUSSION!

The reason why there is so much hatred on the forums,
and barely any conscious thought,
is because people react to the negativity!

They read something that offends their egos,
like someone who says something that's "factually wrong" or "stupid"
and they immediately start typing!

No actual thought, just a reaction based on patterns,
filled with the negativity of the input!


And then there's the fact that people start to assume
that someone's post will be a troll or a hate-post,
making the hatred actually infectious for those who have no ill intentions!

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Solecist Project
#83 - 2014-08-30 19:53:03 UTC
Proof of point:
No one in his right, conscious mind would deliberately,
actively, purposefully want to keep spreading all this hatred!


Yet it keeps on happening!


Does anyone really, honestly want to assume
that all of these people are consciously driven by hatred
and WANT to spread said hatred willingly and consciously?

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Solecist Project
#84 - 2014-08-30 19:55:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
Boy I'm scared now...


Someone pointed out that I mention an article in the top of the post.
Said article is not the wikipedia article I am referring to later on.

To understand this, one just has to read up a few posts earlier.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Antihrist Pripravnik
Cultural Enrichment and Synergy of Diversity
Stain Neurodiverse Democracy
#85 - 2014-08-30 19:55:50 UTC
LazyDeer wrote:
I read the forums every now and then and all I see is so many players crying about game mechanics. Like ganking haulers and miners, scams in jita, Wardecs being a greifer tool, High sec not safe and more. Thing is, this has been going on all the time, and puzzles me how people can't learn from the past? So is EVE's overall IQ dropping?




I'll quote the rule for you:

Quote:
2. Be respectful toward others at all times.

The purpose of the EVE Online forums is to provide a platform for exchange of ideas, and a venue for the discussion of EVE Online. Occasionally there will be conflicts that arise when people voice opinions. Forum users are expected to be courteous when disagreeing with others.
Lady Areola Fappington
#86 - 2014-08-30 19:57:02 UTC
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:
LazyDeer wrote:
I read the forums every now and then and all I see is so many players crying about game mechanics. Like ganking haulers and miners, scams in jita, Wardecs being a greifer tool, High sec not safe and more. Thing is, this has been going on all the time, and puzzles me how people can't learn from the past? So is EVE's overall IQ dropping?




What is IQ?



I know, totally missing the point, but hey!

IQ, at it's simplest definition, is the measure of how easy it is for someone to learn things. Someone with a high IQ will be able to assimilate and retain information much easier than someone with a low IQ. It's not really a measure of smarts per se, as you can be dumb as a brick and have a high IQ.


Interesting tidbit of fact, the IQ scale is averaged at 100, and gets re-averaged every few years. I remember reading not too long ago that if you give the standard 100 point average guy an IQ test from 30-40 years ago, they'll score in the 120's. IQ has gone "up" over the years!

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide

Solecist Project
#87 - 2014-08-30 20:12:28 UTC
I feel the need to add that the "time to let input be processed" also applies to reading.

Each sentence.
Each word.


To quote myself ...


Every word is a note ...
... every sentence a melody.

A paragraph equals an orchestra.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#88 - 2014-08-30 20:19:50 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Eves average IQ is 100, just as every large sample of any bell curve will be.

Vyl Vit wrote:
Cipher Jones pulled that number out of his butt.

Actually he didn't P

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

DJentropy Ovaert
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#89 - 2014-08-30 21:08:36 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Proof of point:
No one in his right, conscious mind would deliberately,
actively, purposefully want to keep spreading all this hatred!


Yet it keeps on happening!


Does anyone really, honestly want to assume
that all of these people are consciously driven by hatred
and WANT to spread said hatred willingly and consciously?


SOLECIST PROJECT PUNCH :)

Let's get serious for a second, though - Solecist totally hit the nail on the head with her post. Allow me to cherry pick for a second?


Solecist Project wrote:

There are many reasons why people just react mindlessly,
but I will point out one example most people directly or indirectly know.
It shows how it works.


Mindless responses are pretty much the standard for many people, and in my opinion it comes down to humanity really only having a few "stories". We typecast eachother into roles that fit these stories, and regardless of what evidence is presented or what is actually going on - we ignore the details to preserve the narrative. The Eve-Online forms are a perfect example of that, about how easy it is to get the entire community to pull out torches and pitchforks when, for example, someone with some level of power presents a classic "Evil bad sociopath who hurts the poor innocent victim" story. You even get bonus points when the bad guy is someone who is very well known. But I digress.

Solecist Project wrote:

The shorter the reaction time, the stronger the automatism.


Getting people to actually bother reading what was posted before, think about it, and then take their time to write up a reasonable response and then take the time to proof read it before clicking post - I fear you are asking too much from humanity in general. Only a small percentage of us are able to do this. :(

Solecist Project wrote:

They read something that offends their egos,
like someone who says something that's "factually wrong" or "stupid"
and they immediately start typing!

No actual thought, just a reaction based on patterns,
filled with the negativity of the input!


I am literally pressing LIKE as hard as I can and throwing money at the screen right now.
Tassin en Lone
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#90 - 2014-08-30 21:53:46 UTC
DJentropy Ovaert wrote:
Getting people to actually bother reading what was posted before, think about it, and then take their time to write up a reasonable response and then take the time to proof read it before clicking post - I fear you are asking too much from humanity in general. Only a small percentage of us are able to do this.

It's not behavior that is encouraged by our social media. Facebook, Twitter, .... they all promote short meaningless interaction. The EVE-O forums are no exception to this. There has been an interesting study on the topic by the Pew Research Center (not a group of gankers) that starts from the assumption that interactions through Facebook and Twitter should have encouraged minority groups to express themselves more freely but instead comes to the conclusion that the opposite is true. The full article can be read here.

Solecist Project wrote:
The reason why there is so much hatred on the forums, and barely any conscious thought, is because people react to the negativity!

People also act to positivity (or enthusiasm). Posts and players with likes are more likely to receive additional likes than those without any. Peer pressure exists even among anonymous individuals or those using forum alts, or so it seems.

Carebear Extraordinaire

Solecist Project
#91 - 2014-08-30 22:00:25 UTC
I feel like DJ's reply actually has nothing to do with my post ...
... and when people start replying to his opinion ...
... they are completely missing the point.


DJ missed it as well.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#92 - 2014-08-30 22:10:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Sibyyl
Solecist Project wrote:

Please note that I did not and do not feel the need to read this article.

...

The reason why one could assume that reaction time and intellect are connected,
is because the longer one thinks about something, the less stupid the response will be!



It is an interesting read, what you posted.. but this directly contradicts (ie: says the exact opposite) of what the linked article said, specifically. Also, I'm not sure how much stock I can put in your response if you can't take the time to read the article (it's pretty short).

The article said:
Quote:
Simple reaction time (the amount of time it takes to respond to a stimulus) is correlated with IQ



What you're saying is knee-jerk reactions are bad. I agree with you. But:

Quote:
The shorter the reaction time, the stronger the automatism.

...

The reason why one could assume that reaction time and intellect are connected,
is because the longer one thinks about something, the less stupid the response will be!


Whether someone makes a stupid (or non-stupid) post has no coherent relationship with IQ. IQ is measured and evaluated differently, and something as subjective as posts on an MMO forum have no correlation whatsoever to a measurable standard of cognitive processing.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.

Tassin en Lone
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#93 - 2014-08-30 22:15:21 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
I feel like DJ's reply actually has nothing to do with my post ...
... and when people start replying to his opinion ...
... they are completely missing the point.


DJ missed it as well.

You were quite complete in your dissection of the human brain. I can't add anything to it, but I can expand on the reasons as to why there is so much negativity on these forums, as can DJ.

Carebear Extraordinaire

Solecist Project
#94 - 2014-08-30 22:17:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
Sibyyl wrote:
cut for space

I do not read that article,
because I do not agree with what is considered "intelligence".


I do not consider people intelligent,
who are so unaware of themselves,
that they fall into long periods of automatic, pattern based behaviour.


People who keep responding to each others posts over and over again, for example.
Like the people who mindlessly fight, until one slaps the other.

"Intelligence" is the wrong word.


Personally, I would call it lack of self awareness.
And in my personal context, that makes a person pretty stupid.

That's an opinion that does not necessarily mean someone is stupid all the time,
but I do tend to consider people who lack proper awareness levels to lack intelligence.

And I do realise it's not intelligence in the sense people usually mean.


I have reasons.


Anyhow ...


Why?


Because the person is unable to form a conscious thought.
Is unable to process anything that does not fit the saved mental patterns.
Is completely locked up in what he believes is true.
Rejects anything that is trying to be said, because it does not fit the saved mental patterns.


I do believe that my post was born rather out of a need to express wtf is going on,
than to actually talk about some irrelevant article that does not help anyone learn anything about themselves.


If my post even only made a single person more aware of itself,
then it was a success.


It definitely made *one* person so far more aware about *me*,
which is a personal win I did not actually expect. Not in the slightest.


If I consider what people seem to think is "intellect" then that would mean
that a person can be intelligent even when it's a person that does not have
any conscious thought at all and simply behaves like a mindless robot.

No?


Oh btw, simply calling it a "knee-jerk reaction" is also missing the point.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#95 - 2014-08-30 22:24:55 UTC

"Intelligence" and IQ are two different concepts, and people incorrectly treat them as synonyms. Mixing intelligence and IQ is a mistake the OP has already made.


We could debate all day about what "intelligence" means, since it is an extremely subjective word. Is it social intelligence? Business intelligence? Ability to play chess? Ability to play Starcraft? It opens the question to an endless amount of criteria.

IQ, on the other hand is a fairly standardized test, measuring very specific aspects of cognitive processing.


I personally would be very cautious about debating intelligence. I think it is too subjective and too general of a topic to expect any real agreement.


Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#96 - 2014-08-30 22:30:42 UTC
Solecist Project
#97 - 2014-08-30 22:31:40 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:

"Intelligence" and IQ are two different concepts, and people incorrectly treat them as synonyms. Mixing intelligence and IQ is a mistake the OP has already made.


We could debate all day about what "intelligence" means, since it is an extremely subjective word. Is it social intelligence? Business intelligence? Ability to play chess? Ability to play Starcraft? It opens the question to an endless amount of criteria.

IQ, on the other hand is a fairly standardized test, measuring very specific aspects of cognitive processing.


I personally would be very cautious about debating intelligence. I think it is too subjective and too general of a topic to expect any real agreement.
I agree with the lack of real agreement about what "intelligence" means.

I do believe though, that it is important to have a term for this.

"Lack of self awareness" actually hits it nails on ...

... and I am still waiting for someone to realise.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Solecist Project
#98 - 2014-08-30 22:35:00 UTC
Thank you for your post!

And I am not getting disected,
chewed,
and spit out by you!


Yay! :D

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#99 - 2014-08-30 22:39:56 UTC

Personally I enjoy getting killed by Tippia's digestive juices.


It is usually an educational experience.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.

Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
When Fleets Collide
#100 - 2014-08-30 22:42:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Ria Nieyli