EVE General Discussion

Disagree

War should be expensive for everyone, not rewarding


The problem is not the fighting, its the using it to avoid CONCORD.

The fights only happen because people who dont want to fight let themsleves get caught.

Well nothing positive that is for sure.



Yes it does because those players who do get smashed into thousands of pieces and urinated on as you like to put it have a number of choices.

1. They can quit

2. Come crying on the forums about how unfair and hard Eve is

3. Come to the forums or ask in game for advice about how not to get smashed to pieces, take that advice on board and try again.

Those that fall under option 1 and 2 I couldn't care less about and can leave, I do not want players like that.

Those that want to know how to improve, how to fight back, how to use the game mechanics in their favour, they are the players that I want to stay and because they are asking the right questions and have the attitude we as a community like, they will get lots of helpful advice and ultimately will continue to play for the most part.



Again, nobody is saying that never fighting or refusing to fight is wrong, that is your right but not to accept that this is ultimately as PvP game and at any point somebody has the right to shoot at you is also wrong.

You can play how you like, do as you like, so long as you can accept that other people also have right to play how they like and if that means ganking, axowing or ward deccing so be it.

Total and complete utter rubbish.

Please tell everybody in what way the current system makes fighting back entirely impossible

Many of the players that currently play hed exactly those reactions when they first played. They've just since come back to try again. Wouldn't it be better to discourage them ever so slightly less so they try again right away? Just because this is their initial reaction, doesn't mean they will never learn. Basically what you are saying is if you don't arrive in EVE already with the mindset to be able to play EVE you can leave, even if you might be able to learn.

When I started, it was much easier to find the time to learn. Not every single person was out to kick you in the fact and laugh at you, so I had time to acclimatise to the game. If I'd started with the current NPE, I'd probably have left (cue jokes about how you think I should have).

So if they don;t already have that attitude when they arrive, you have no interest in trying to change their point of view? I think a lot more people could learn to like EVE if they weren't trolled out as soon as they've had a bad reaction. I've even seen it, where people have come on in a rage in the forum and been caught by one of the more conscientious vets and changed their way of thinking and they've gone on to become involved players.

Indeed, but people can't be expected to already think that way when they arrive. There's nothing that tries to get them to think that way, and perhaps there should be. It's unreasonable to expect someone to instantly change their way of thinking though all while someone's hurling insults at them, telling them to leave and asking for their stuff.

Ok, you believe that avoiding wars and learning how to dissuade Wardccers from deccing you in the first place or again is impossible or pointless if you like.

I know from experience it isnt.

And go on, keep ignoring that "fighting back" is not the only option to end a war and avoid further decs.

Ive already explained numerous times that defending yourself doesnt just me shooting things.

Of course I don't. I don't think that most noobs would know how though, and I think most industry based corps would find it easier just to operate out of an NPC corp. Red-frog for example don't dissuade wardeccers, neither does PushX. Most manufacturers I know (including myself for I do highsec industry on the side) do all of their hauling with NPC alts, since it's just easier.

I'm not ignornig that. I've even stated explicitly that I don't believe that to be the case, which you appear to have ignored. That still doesn't change my view that for most, switching to an NPC corp is easier and more effective, and that the behaviour should be shifted towards getting people to generate 2 sided content.

that could be from both sides really maybe if the wardeccers stopped deccing the defenceless corps then maybe people wouldnt jump to npc corps to get away from fighting

I'm not getting into this loop again.

It's easier for people to join an NPC corp. You don't like it and you don;t think they should, but that still the case. You think player corps should teach them I AGREE but they don't, so it's irrelevant to keep telling me what people should do.

EDIT: By the way, if you can think of an idea to make it more beneficial for a CEO to properly teach members of a corp and detrimental for a CEO to be terrible by all means put it forward. A big problem with the NPE is that without joining a group like e-uni a player is not really taught by other players they have contact with.

I've stated it multiple times. I even proposed to stop using the word "defenseless" and use "non-combat corps" instead, so you might understand that I am not saying that people are incapable of learning how to deal with wardeccers another way. If it's unclear though:

I do not think that people will be completely incapable of combating wardeccers, however non-combat corps will find it easier to join an NPC corp that use any other method of avoidance, as they have no interest in doing any of the activities they would need to do to combat them in any other way.

Is that clear enough for you?

I don't drop corp. I, like red-frog, understand that having a corp has benefits like a single point for contracts and separation for concerns, but is not required even remotely for the in space activities, so my only characters in highsec corps never undock. Everything else is done though NPC corps, thus I have pre-emptively defeated wardeccers, and have to expend precisely zero effort in holding my defense.

Others should do exactly that too. If they just "stopped dropping corp" and the wardec situation didn't change, then they would soon find themselves well outgunned and in the position where they can't proceed with the activities they enjoy.

Its clear that you still cannot understand that shooting at your deccers is not the only solution (dropping corp not withstanding).

Edit: anyway Im done, you dont want to understand, and no matter what I do, you cannot accept that NPC corps are artifical, pointless, and a breeding ground for all manner of unpleasant alt activity

?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

I completely understand that combating them involves more than just shooting them as shown by "that (should have been than, my bad) use any other method of avoidance", and "they have no interest in doing any of the activities they would need to do to combat them in any other way". Players playing for PVE though, they don't want to be flying around in cloaked ships, moving their entire operations to different space, spending hundreds of millions on mercs, etc. So they join NPC corps, which is a valid tactic.

And no, I will not accepts that NPC corps are pointless. Without changes to other systems, they are a necessary evil. I'd love to see them gone, which I've stated before in this thread, but they are needed to make certain playstyles possible, and I don't believe in nuking established playstyles out of the game.