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War Decs as a griefing tool

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Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#401 - 2014-08-30 12:56:19 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
This is not just a pvp game this is a game of many careers and a sandbox where people can be whatever they want which may not be pvp, you just assume that because you play eve you have to pvp and you have to be social and you have to do this, they dont have to do anything if they want industrial/trading/single player game then whats the issue.....

If this is just a pvp game then why is there mining, trading, haulling, missions etc etc all the things where people who dont want to interact with others dont have to


Wrong on all counts. Whenever you are logged in to EVE and doing things that require you to undock or use the market, you are engaged in the community (ie, social). When you trade you are in competition (PvP) with other players on the market. When you haul you are in competition (PvP) with other players. There is no place you can go in EVE where you are free from interacting with others, except in station and AFK. When you mine it doesn't matter if you don't want to interact - anyone is free to jump into an SFI or a Catalyst and interact with you. Same goes for missions.

You are wholly incorrect.


Well you summed it up with 1 word "competition" there is no competition i. A battleship killing a mining barge or 2 week old player through a wardec, doesnt matter how you paint it, versus means 2 or more people competing, one of the players aint competing so its invalid as much as you like to call it pvp i like to call it fake pvp

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#402 - 2014-08-30 13:02:39 UTC
have you tried to catch a war target with a battle ship recently?

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#403 - 2014-08-30 13:05:53 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
have you tried to catch a war target with a battle ship recently?


nope i dont have war targets i live in nullsec so dont need to wardec anyone to kill them, have you tried to pvp in nullsec before? people dont jump to npc corps down there so no worries with that either

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#404 - 2014-08-30 13:11:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Xuixien
Lan Wang wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
This is not just a pvp game this is a game of many careers and a sandbox where people can be whatever they want which may not be pvp, you just assume that because you play eve you have to pvp and you have to be social and you have to do this, they dont have to do anything if they want industrial/trading/single player game then whats the issue.....

If this is just a pvp game then why is there mining, trading, haulling, missions etc etc all the things where people who dont want to interact with others dont have to


Wrong on all counts. Whenever you are logged in to EVE and doing things that require you to undock or use the market, you are engaged in the community (ie, social). When you trade you are in competition (PvP) with other players on the market. When you haul you are in competition (PvP) with other players. There is no place you can go in EVE where you are free from interacting with others, except in station and AFK. When you mine it doesn't matter if you don't want to interact - anyone is free to jump into an SFI or a Catalyst and interact with you. Same goes for missions.

You are wholly incorrect.


Well you summed it up with 1 word "competition" there is no competition i. A battleship killing a mining barge or 2 week old player through a wardec, doesnt matter how you paint it, versus means 2 or more people competing, one of the players aint competing so its invalid as much as you like to call it pvp i like to call it fake pvp


Much the same way that animals are not cognizant of the fact that they are in competition with other organisms, many EVE players also do not realize that such competition exists between them. This does not, however, remove said competition from the equation. You're just looking at it wrong. Who said the battleship is in competition with the miner? The miner is prey. Prey does not compete with the predator as much as prey competes with other prey. Sure, the battleship and the miner are engaged in a bit of an arms race - battleship trying to catch miner, miner trying to get away, the same way a cheetah is in an arms race with a springbok. This example is overt, it stands out, it catches our eye and it seems dramatic. But the miner is engaged in more competition with other miners than he is with those who prey on him. The miner who is not smart enough to avoid getting killed during a WarDec loses the competition against the miner who is smart enough to avoid getting killed during a WarDec. The miners are in competition and they needn't even know the other even exists.

Your source of confusion seems to be over the words: competition, contest, combat, PvP.

Competition in the context of EVE: the struggle among organisms, both of the same and of different species, for food, space, and other vital requirements.

You can call it "fake PvP" all you want. You're still wrong.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#405 - 2014-08-30 13:14:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Ralph King-Griffin
briefly, i may come out to null at some point but im having waaaaay too much fun shinaniganising the bears in high sec.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Solecist Project
#406 - 2014-08-30 13:18:38 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
... shinaniganising ...
I have learned a new word I love the sound of ...
... even if it doesn't actually exist. :)


Thank you. (:

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Solecist Project
#407 - 2014-08-30 13:19:55 UTC
Reading through the last posts there is so much evidence that
too many people do not understand what "PvP" means/stands for.

Lots of pointless, completely avoidable discussions and arguments are born from this.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#408 - 2014-08-30 13:35:26 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Reading through the last posts there is so much evidence that
too many people do not understand what "PvP" means/stands for.

Lots of pointless, completely avoidable discussions and arguments are born from this.


pvp means player versus player, there are other forms but pvp is usually 2 or more live perticipents competing against each other, what alot of people here seem to class pvp as is nothing more than player killing or ganking, being that a wardec is kinda non-consensual its merely classed as player killing in most cases of big corps who wardec rookies and industrials and seem to class it as "pvp" may seem like it is pvp because it is 2 players afterall but really i dont consider it to be pvp.

"Player killing, or PKing, is non-consensual PvP resulting in a character's death. Some games offer open PvP (also sometimes called world PvP), where one player can attack another without warning anywhere in the game world. A pure PK game is one where PvP conflict is the only gameplay offered. Ganking (short for gang killing) is a type of PKing in which the killer has a significant advantage over his victim, such as being part of a group, being a higher level, or attacking the victim while they are at low health."

again its just my percetion on what should be defined as pvp

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#409 - 2014-08-30 13:39:33 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:


pvp means player versus player, there are other forms but pvp is usually 2 or more live perticipents competing against each other, what alot of people here seem to class pvp as is nothing more than player killing or ganking, being that a wardec is kinda non-consensual its merely classed as player killing in most cases of big corps who wardec rookies and industrials and seem to class it as "pvp" may seem like it is pvp because it is 2 players afterall but really i dont consider it to be pvp.

".... Some games offer open PvP (also sometimes called world PvP), where one player can attack another without warning anywhere in the game world."


From your own post, your chosen definition of PVP expressly includes a line disagreeing with you.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Solecist Project
#410 - 2014-08-30 13:48:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
Lan Wang wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
Reading through the last posts there is so much evidence that
too many people do not understand what "PvP" means/stands for.

Lots of pointless, completely avoidable discussions and arguments are born from this.


pvp means player versus player, there are other forms but pvp is usually 2 or more live perticipents competing against each other, what alot of people here seem to class pvp as is nothing more than player killing or ganking


That does not change the fact that it still falls into "PvP".
It's one player vs. the other.

I want to point out to you that you show bias in these regards
and express a dislike regarding forms of "PvP combat"* others engage in.


Also I do feel the need to add that "PvP" is,
in no way or form,
only about (virtual) "physical" combat.


Market "PvP" is a thing too, for example.



*(i use combat as lack of a more general word. Some would probably feel inclined to use the word
"slaughtering" when it comes to suicide ganking, which still would not make it any less "PvP")

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#411 - 2014-08-30 13:48:47 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:


pvp means player versus player, there are other forms but pvp is usually 2 or more live perticipents competing against each other, what alot of people here seem to class pvp as is nothing more than player killing or ganking, being that a wardec is kinda non-consensual its merely classed as player killing in most cases of big corps who wardec rookies and industrials and seem to class it as "pvp" may seem like it is pvp because it is 2 players afterall but really i dont consider it to be pvp.

".... Some games offer open PvP (also sometimes called world PvP), where one player can attack another without warning anywhere in the game world."


From your own post, your chosen definition of PVP expressly includes a line disagreeing with you.


As i said its my perception of what real pvp is, player killing isnt the same as player vs player

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#412 - 2014-08-30 13:49:37 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:


pvp means player versus player, there are other forms but pvp is usually 2 or more live perticipents competing against each other, what alot of people here seem to class pvp as is nothing more than player killing or ganking, being that a wardec is kinda non-consensual its merely classed as player killing in most cases of big corps who wardec rookies and industrials and seem to class it as "pvp" may seem like it is pvp because it is 2 players afterall but really i dont consider it to be pvp.

".... Some games offer open PvP (also sometimes called world PvP), where one player can attack another without warning anywhere in the game world."


From your own post, your chosen definition of PVP expressly includes a line disagreeing with you.


As i said its my perception of what real pvp is, player killing isnt the same as player vs player


Your perception is wrong. CCP has even told you as much.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#413 - 2014-08-30 13:50:52 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
Reading through the last posts there is so much evidence that
too many people do not understand what "PvP" means/stands for.

Lots of pointless, completely avoidable discussions and arguments are born from this.


pvp means player versus player, there are other forms but pvp is usually 2 or more live perticipents competing against each other, what alot of people here seem to class pvp as is nothing more than player killing or ganking


That does not change the fact that it still falls into "PvP".
It's one player vs. the other.

I want to point out to you that you show bias in these regards
and express a dislike regarding forms of "PvP" others engage in.


Also I do feel the need to add that "PvP" is,
in no way or form,
only about (virtual) "physical" combat.


Market "PvP" is a thing too, for example.


Yes and thats 2 players competing to sell something, just like a race its 2 or more people competing to beat the other, just because a bus is on the same road doesnt mean he was in the race

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#414 - 2014-08-30 13:53:04 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
Reading through the last posts there is so much evidence that
too many people do not understand what "PvP" means/stands for.

Lots of pointless, completely avoidable discussions and arguments are born from this.


pvp means player versus player, there are other forms but pvp is usually 2 or more live perticipents competing against each other, what alot of people here seem to class pvp as is nothing more than player killing or ganking


That does not change the fact that it still falls into "PvP".
It's one player vs. the other.

I want to point out to you that you show bias in these regards
and express a dislike regarding forms of "PvP" others engage in.


Also I do feel the need to add that "PvP" is,
in no way or form,
only about (virtual) "physical" combat.


Market "PvP" is a thing too, for example.


Yes and thats 2 players competing to sell something, just like a race its 2 or more people competing to beat the other, just because a bus is on the same road doesnt mean he was in the race


In EVE Online everyone is in the race whether they realize it, or admit it.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Solecist Project
#415 - 2014-08-30 13:53:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
Lan Wang wrote:
As i said its my perception of what real pvp is, player killing isnt the same as player vs player

I do not understand where this disconnection from reality comes from.*



Both participating parts ... (and it does not matter if active/passive)

... are players ...

... no?



*(this is not meant as an attack, which will hopefully clear itself up after a few posts.
I say it, because that's what I observe ... as my question indicates. Thank you for your time, btw)

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#416 - 2014-08-30 13:55:15 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:


pvp means player versus player, there are other forms but pvp is usually 2 or more live perticipents competing against each other, what alot of people here seem to class pvp as is nothing more than player killing or ganking, being that a wardec is kinda non-consensual its merely classed as player killing in most cases of big corps who wardec rookies and industrials and seem to class it as "pvp" may seem like it is pvp because it is 2 players afterall but really i dont consider it to be pvp.

".... Some games offer open PvP (also sometimes called world PvP), where one player can attack another without warning anywhere in the game world."


From your own post, your chosen definition of PVP expressly includes a line disagreeing with you.


As i said its my perception of what real pvp is, player killing isnt the same as player vs player


So you are making a semantic argument based on the fact that if you are unwilling to defend yourself or avoid being ganked you arent considered a Player?

I can buy that actually, +1

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#417 - 2014-08-30 13:59:18 UTC
nothing changes the fact if someone does not want to engage in pvp they have the tools there to avoid it, its a mechanic put in place to give the people who chose not to follow "your" way of playing the game.

if someone does not want to fight you they do not have to allbeit for reasons like they dont have the skills or they dont know how to fit a ewar jamming ship, jumping to a npc corp is the easiest way to avoid this so why should they not?

if someone want to play the solo game because they do not have the time to dedicate into being social within a corp they can do missions or whatever they want to do, the do not have to engage in your game and on your terms

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Solecist Project
#418 - 2014-08-30 14:00:56 UTC
Patience, Sol...

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#419 - 2014-08-30 14:02:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Ramona McCandless
Lan Wang wrote:
nothing changes the fact if someone does not want to engage in pvp they have the tools there to avoid it, its a mechanic put in place to give the people who chose not to follow "your" way of playing the game.

if someone does not want to fight you they do not have to allbeit for reasons like they dont have the skills or they dont know how to fit a ewar jamming ship, jumping to a npc corp is the easiest way to avoid this so why should they not?

if someone want to play the solo game because they do not have the time to dedicate into being social within a corp they can do missions or whatever they want to do, the do not have to engage in your game and on your terms


Yes they do.

It is NOT against the EULA or the rules of this game for me to scan down their mission ship and kill them.

It is perfectly within the rules for them to take ANY actions necessary to save themselves.

So yes, they DO have to engage in "my" game, because "my" game is EvE and thats how EvE works.

The tools do exist for them to avoid PvP, but if they choose not to use them, I am free to choose them as a target.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#420 - 2014-08-30 14:03:08 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
nothing changes the fact if someone does not want to engage in pvp they have the tools there to avoid it, its a mechanic put in place to give the people who chose not to follow "your" way of playing the game.


Sorry but you're confusing combat with PvP. You are locked in PvP any time you play EVE, whether you realize it, or not. If you use the market, you're engaged in PvP. If you mine, you will eventually use the market, so you're preparing for PvP. If you mission you are PvPing (cat and mouse with gankers).

It's all PvP. You cannot extricate yourself from it.

Lan Wang wrote:
if someone want to play the solo game because they do not have the time to dedicate into being social within a corp they can do missions or whatever they want to do, the do not have to engage in your game and on your terms


Yes they do, and I have a Tornado fit up and ready to make them engage with the game on my terms.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist