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War Decs as a griefing tool

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Prince Kobol
#381 - 2014-08-30 11:45:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Prince Kobol
Lucas Kell wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
*a post completely missing all points*
You seem to still be arguing against something I'm not stating. I never said that it's the fault of wardeccers that defenseless people exist, but it is their fault that the majority of their targets are defenseless, because they choose their targets specifically because they are defenseless. It's really not that hard a concept to grasp so I don;t know why you seem to be struggling.


No, they chose to be defenceless and by running away and hiding in a NPC corps were they learn nothing and I would wage that those newer player who hide in a NPC corps end up leaving because they experience very little that the game has to offer.

Those players who chose to fight and there are many way forms of PvP, even if that means cloaking up in system and laughing at the more experience players chasing their tails in local then so be it.

Those players who chose to fight back in what ever way they can are more likely to stick around as they get what Eve is all about.

These are the kind of players that make Eve stronger. The kind of players you want that will just hide in NPC Corps will do more damage to the long term health of Eve then anything else.

I would prefer 100 new players that understand and accept what Eve is then 10000 players who want what apparently you want and that is a High Sec where PvP is removed.
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#382 - 2014-08-30 11:49:39 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
*a post completely missing all points*
You seem to still be arguing against something I'm not stating. I never said that it's the fault of wardeccers that defenseless people exist, but it is their fault that the majority of their targets are defenseless, because they choose their targets specifically because they are defenseless. It's really not that hard a concept to grasp so I don;t know why you seem to be struggling.


I'm going to overlook the fact that you glossed over most of my post. In a way I understand why you did that. And I'm not completely without grace.

I'm going to return to your original point:

Lucas Kell wrote:
You were right though OP, wardecs are pretty much for griefing. Most wardecs are set up against corps that either will not or cannot retaliate... war decs are terrible and need to be looked at. They should generate combat, not one sided ganks, but the question is and always has been, how can it be changed to do just that?


Again: No one in EVE Online is defenseless unless they choose to be. Again: You've advocated that CCP change WarDec'ing. Again: There is no reason that CCP should change WarDec'ing simply because some players have made the choice to be the bottom of the food chain.

Lucas Kell wrote:
it's all of the noobs fault that they are unable to defend against people well experienced and prepared in wars, even though those same people could war with competent groups thus generating actual content?


Again: There's no such thing as "actual content" vs "fake content". Content is content. Again: There's no such thing as "real PvP" vs "fake PvP". PvP is PvP.

I'm genuinely interested to see how you're going to evade my points this time. Will you completely ignore my post, or are you going to do some quotefu?

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#383 - 2014-08-30 11:52:39 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
*a post completely missing all points*
You seem to still be arguing against something I'm not stating. I never said that it's the fault of wardeccers that defenseless people exist, but it is their fault that the majority of their targets are defenseless, because they choose their targets specifically because they are defenseless. It's really not that hard a concept to grasp so I don;t know why you seem to be struggling.


No, they chose to be defenceless and by running away and hiding in a NPC corps were they learn nothing and I would wage that those newer player who hide in a NPC corps end up leaving because they experience very little that the game has to offer.

Those players who chose to fight and there are many way forms of PvP, even if that means cloaking up in system and laughing at the more experience players chasing their tails in local then so be it.

Those players who chose to fight back in what ever way they can are more likely to stick around as they get what Eve is all about.

These are the kind of players that make Eve stronger. The kind of players you want that will just hide in NPC Corps will do more damage to the long term health of Eve then anything else.

I would prefer 100 new players that understand and accept what Eve is then 10000 players who want what apparently you want and that is a High Sec where PvP is removed.


100% this.

CCP did a presentation of this at Fanfest.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#384 - 2014-08-30 12:24:17 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Fake pvp is killing an industrial and thinking it should be viable for a gf in local, all the great stories of eve dont involve the 200 man highsec merc corps wardeccing the 50man mining corps because thats not great news and not even a cool story. Experienced players killing rookies is an even worse story

Stay in npc corps and dont give wardeccers the satisfaction, hopefully this will force them to low and nullsec where more great content can be made, i doubt it though as easy targets in null are few and far between


Here we have another example of someone who draws his self worth from what s/he believes is "true PvP".

Please note that these people do indeed believe they are better ...
... as they put themselves into the group of "true" ones ...
... while they put the others into the "false".


I dont take my sports car out on the weekend and overtake a bus and class it as a race so whats the difference, "hi mate i had a good race with a bus today totally thrashed it" not really a race was it? But but it was a person driving the bus so it must have been a race as he was going in the same direction as me

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#385 - 2014-08-30 12:27:26 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Fake pvp is killing an industrial and thinking it should be viable for a gf in local, all the great stories of eve dont involve the 200 man highsec merc corps wardeccing the 50man mining corps because thats not great news and not even a cool story. Experienced players killing rookies is an even worse story

Stay in npc corps and dont give wardeccers the satisfaction, hopefully this will force them to low and nullsec where more great content can be made, i doubt it though as easy targets in null are few and far between


Here we have another example of someone who draws his self worth from what s/he believes is "true PvP".

Please note that these people do indeed believe they are better ...
... as they put themselves into the group of "true" ones ...
... while they put the others into the "false".


I dont take my sports car out on the weekend and overtake a bus and class it as a race so whats the difference, "hi mate i had a good race with a bus today totally thrashed it" not really a race was it? But but it was a person driving the bus so it must have been a race as he was going in the same direction as me


I'm still gonna laugh at the guy for bringing a bus to a race.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#386 - 2014-08-30 12:29:27 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Fake pvp is killing an industrial and thinking it should be viable for a gf in local, all the great stories of eve dont involve the 200 man highsec merc corps wardeccing the 50man mining corps because thats not great news and not even a cool story. Experienced players killing rookies is an even worse story

Stay in npc corps and dont give wardeccers the satisfaction, hopefully this will force them to low and nullsec where more great content can be made, i doubt it though as easy targets in null are few and far between


Here we have another example of someone who draws his self worth from what s/he believes is "true PvP".

Please note that these people do indeed believe they are better ...
... as they put themselves into the group of "true" ones ...
... while they put the others into the "false".


I dont take my sports car out on the weekend and overtake a bus and class it as a race so whats the difference, "hi mate i had a good race with a bus today totally thrashed it" not really a race was it? But but it was a person driving the bus so it must have been a race as he was going in the same direction as me


I'm still gonna laugh at the guy for bringing a bus to a race.


But it wasnt a race in the first place...

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#387 - 2014-08-30 12:31:04 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Fake pvp is killing an industrial and thinking it should be viable for a gf in local, all the great stories of eve dont involve the 200 man highsec merc corps wardeccing the 50man mining corps because thats not great news and not even a cool story. Experienced players killing rookies is an even worse story

Stay in npc corps and dont give wardeccers the satisfaction, hopefully this will force them to low and nullsec where more great content can be made, i doubt it though as easy targets in null are few and far between


Here we have another example of someone who draws his self worth from what s/he believes is "true PvP".

Please note that these people do indeed believe they are better ...
... as they put themselves into the group of "true" ones ...
... while they put the others into the "false".


I dont take my sports car out on the weekend and overtake a bus and class it as a race so whats the difference, "hi mate i had a good race with a bus today totally thrashed it" not really a race was it? But but it was a person driving the bus so it must have been a race as he was going in the same direction as me


I'm still gonna laugh at the guy for bringing a bus to a race.


But it wasnt a race in the first place...


Except it was. Welcome to EVE Online.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#388 - 2014-08-30 12:33:15 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:

But it wasnt a race in the first place...


In a PvP game, it always is, whether you choose to prepare for it correctly or not.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#389 - 2014-08-30 12:35:10 UTC
And that is your perception, my perception of your perception is fake pvp

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#390 - 2014-08-30 12:37:04 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
And that is your perception, my perception of your perception is fake pvp


The devs have outright told you that your perception is wrong, and that EVE is a PvP game.

You don't get to call a draw, knock over the checkerboard and call it even. You don't get to claim "difference of opinion", because it's not an opinion.

Ours is a statement of fact, yours is a self inflicted delusion.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#391 - 2014-08-30 12:38:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Xuixien
Lan Wang wrote:
And that is your perception, my perception of your perception is fake pvp


Oh, don't try to hide behind intellectual cop outs. EVE is a PvP game and that's a fact. The DEVs have all but said as much. EVE is a survival game; you are automatically in competition with everyone, whether you choose to "perceive" it that way or not. If you choose to bring a bus to a race, that's your choice, but there's no point in crying when a Ferrari blows past you or an 18-wheeler runs you off the road. If you choose to have an "opinion", that's your prerogative... you're free to be wrong.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#392 - 2014-08-30 12:40:04 UTC
And given CCP Falcon's recent and repeated statements(that he has told us are shared by most of CCP itself), it just really shows the depths of delusion that carebears can sink to.

In this context, "God" has literally come down from on high to tell you that you are not just wrong, but as wrong as it's possible to be while still physically existing.

And yet, like Satan, you persist, despite the Ultimate and Only Authority telling you in no uncertain terms that you are wrong.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#393 - 2014-08-30 12:43:32 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
And given CCP Falcon's recent and repeated statements(that he has told us are shared by most of CCP itself), it just really shows the depths of delusion that carebears can sink to.

In this context, "God" has literally come down from on high to tell you that you are not just wrong, but as wrong as it's possible to be while still physically existing.

And yet, like Satan, you persist, despite the Ultimate and Only Authority telling you in no uncertain terms that you are wrong.


Obviously CCP is wrong when they say their game is a PvP game. Roll

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#394 - 2014-08-30 12:43:36 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:

But it wasnt a race in the first place...


In a PvP game, it always is, whether you choose to prepare for it correctly or not.


This is not just a pvp game this is a game of many careers and a sandbox where people can be whatever they want which may not be pvp, you just assume that because you play eve you have to pvp and you have to be social and you have to do this, they dont have to do anything if they want industrial/trading/single player game then whats the issue

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#395 - 2014-08-30 12:45:20 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:

This is not just a pvp game


Barring some pretty ridiculous and exceedingly contrived circumstances, yes, it is.

And CCP says so.

Quote:
you just assume that because you play eve you have to pvp and you have to be social and you have to do this, they dont have to do anything if they want industrial/trading/single player game then whats the issue


No, they don't "have" to defend themselves.

But they should not be surprised if they die in that case, since EVE is a PvP game after all.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#396 - 2014-08-30 12:46:54 UTC
If this is just a pvp game then why is there mining, trading, haulling, missions etc etc all the things where people who dont want to interact with others dont have to

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#397 - 2014-08-30 12:48:36 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
If this is just a pvp game then why is there mining, trading, haulling, missions etc etc all the things where people who dont want to interact with others dont have to


Those things are all PvP.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#398 - 2014-08-30 12:49:29 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
And that is your perception, my perception of your perception is fake pvp

no
CCP Falcon wrote:


EVE is built on the core principle that you are never 100% safe, no matter where you go or what you do. When you interact with another player, you roll the dice on whether they're going to screw you over or not. That's a massive part of the social engineering behind the very basic underpinnings of the EVE Universe.



Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#399 - 2014-08-30 12:50:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Xuixien
Lan Wang wrote:
This is not just a pvp game this is a game of many careers and a sandbox where people can be whatever they want which may not be pvp, you just assume that because you play eve you have to pvp and you have to be social and you have to do this, they dont have to do anything if they want industrial/trading/single player game then whats the issue.....

If this is just a pvp game then why is there mining, trading, haulling, missions etc etc all the things where people who dont want to interact with others dont have to


Wrong on all counts. Whenever you are logged in to EVE and doing things that require you to undock or use the market, you are engaged in the community (ie, social). When you trade you are in competition (PvP) with other players on the market. When you haul you are in competition (PvP) with other players. There is no place you can go in EVE where you are free from interacting with others, except in station and AFK. When you mine it doesn't matter if you don't want to interact - anyone is free to jump into an SFI or a Catalyst and interact with you. Same goes for missions.

You are wholly incorrect.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#400 - 2014-08-30 12:51:10 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
If this is just a pvp game then why is there mining, trading, haulling, missions etc etc all the things where people who dont want to interact with others dont have to

facets, the machine needs oil to run

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=