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The costs of PVP is too much for new players
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JAF Anders
Adenosine Inhibition
The Chicken Coop
#241 - 2014-08-29 20:50:03 UTC
If you really think that it's too high, OP, you should run a league of voluntary PvP where you have to stop shooting when you hit structure.

(but really, even a new player can get cheap, under-competitive ships)

The pursuit of excellence and stabbed plexing alts.
Ioci
Bad Girl Posse
#242 - 2014-08-29 21:02:55 UTC
Most of these arguments are on the assumption that "PvP" is nothing more than throwing hulls at the insurance system. In EVE the ability to engage in meaningful PvP has a huge cost of years of dedication that will almost certainly end in failure for anyone who doesn't play EVE on a third party level.

If your idea of PvP in EVE is T1 cruiser pew-pew then no, EVE isn't too costly. If you want Sov and Moon mining and T2 manufacturing and to be an empire in EVE and you just started? Forget it. Those bridges burned to a cinder 9 years ago.

R.I.P. Vile Rat
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#243 - 2014-08-29 21:29:19 UTC
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#244 - 2014-08-29 22:47:46 UTC
Ioci wrote:
If your idea of PvP in EVE is T1 cruiser pew-pew then no, EVE isn't too costly. If you want Sov and Moon mining and T2 manufacturing and to be an empire in EVE and you just started? Forget it.
That escalated quickly.

Witty Image - Stream

Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
Velarra
#245 - 2014-08-29 22:57:00 UTC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW9yj8S1GB8

Oh, and ftp over fidonet was great too. ^.^
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#246 - 2014-08-29 23:31:44 UTC
The only newbies who can't afford pvp are the ones that listen to people in the noobcorps and buy stupid ships with stupid fittings. Join a real corp.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide
Tweek Etimua
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#247 - 2014-08-30 00:34:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Tweek Etimua
Otuk Andven wrote:
One of the big issues that I feel put players off PVP is the cost. This is especially true for new players.

Its a well known fact that pvp cost money, an average t1 frigate is going to set you back about 10m ISK depending on fittings and rigs, yet for new players going to go into low sec to try pvp that ship is going to die.

Now 10m is a lot, -don't laugh- for new players and I suspect for a lot of people it is a lot. New players can't do incursions and their ISK/hour on missions will be low because of sub-par dps or tank. After 6 months in the game I was still going about 15m an hour in a navy raven doing lv4s.

The result is people spend more time engaged in missioning and mining to fund their pvp activity. Now I had a lot of free time then so I could grind missions for hours to do pvp a lot, (about half a billion worth of it if I remember). However now that I'm in work I doubt I could/would.

And people wonder why half the player base ends up mining/missioning?

Your prices are off but your concept has truth but the reason why new players can't earn enough isk to pvp is multiboxers. I will never be multi boxing....never. Multiboxing has ended up being the only way to play eve with a lax wallet. When I was a new player and now, there are alot of things I had planned on doing as my eve career but turned out that because of multi boxing it wasn't going to happen. It seems that CCP intended that people would hire actual people to get things done. What happend was that the community found a way, like it always does, to get around it. And as I understand it CCP could and has the ability to limit open clients and doesn't. Since I don't multi I can only guess that a majority of players use real money. If that's true CCP would loose money. But if they would shut down multiboxing they would have a lot of bitter vets threadnaughts. They would have to hope that the news would draw back old players and new players to fill the void that the multiboxing accounts left. Not to mention the awsome caos that would ensue in the game.

However your issue it with isk earnings and pvp. The way ccp aproached the high risk gamestyle is to make loosing a ship a real pain. The idea of playing eve like other games where you login and pvp after doing 1 or 2 jobs nulifies the amount of risk ccp wanted to convey.
Hadrian Blackstone
Yamato Holdings
#248 - 2014-08-30 01:15:09 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Black Panpher wrote:
I see a lot of people saying you don't need t2 modules on a t1 frig. These people are idiots and will die to every other correctly fitted t1 frig.

You know that T2 isn't always better, right? Only an idiot would suggest that T2 modules are necessary and that you will die without them.


T2 modules in a 1v1 fight are important. Any ship T1 fit vs the exact same ship with the same modules only T2 will get sploded. It's simple math. Additionally, the fact that you can fit T2 gear shows you at least have a decent amount of SP, which are the keys to a better tank, better DPS, etc.

Yes there are some exceptions which you are always keen to point out, but they are not the rule.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#249 - 2014-08-30 01:16:27 UTC
Hadrian Blackstone wrote:

Yes there are some exceptions which you are always keen to point out, but they are not the rule.



Which is precisely what Tippia said.

"You know that T2 isn't always better, right?"

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Good Posting
Doomheim
#250 - 2014-08-30 02:31:12 UTC
Frigates are cheap and very valuable. Besides, there is a lot of isk in FW. Just capture a novice defensive complex and you can replace a navy ship like the slicer or firetail and still profit.
Jenni LaCroix
Doomheim
#251 - 2014-08-30 15:52:05 UTC
Torneach Structor wrote:
Otuk Andven wrote:
an average t1 frigate is going to set you back about 10m ISK


Where in the world are you getting a T1 frigate plus fittings for 10M?

Like, seriously.

Cause where I am (Amarr) an average frigate hull is around 300k. No way in hell is anybody putting 9.7m in fittings on a T1 frigate.


you and obviously the other few noobs that gave you likes apparently have no idea about pvp... if you fit a tristan with a web, scram, plate, drone damage amps and drones as well as 3 neuts, you are looking at already 7-8 mio isk... and often those type of ships kill faction and t2 frigs so yeah, please do not talk out of your rears.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#252 - 2014-08-30 16:18:12 UTC
Hadrian Blackstone wrote:
T2 modules in a 1v1 fight are important.
Learning not to get suckered into a 1v1 and to evaluate your target is even more important.

Quote:
Any ship T1 fit vs the exact same ship with the same modules only T2 will get sploded.
Only on paper. The great thing is that “simple math” does not even tell half of the story. The other great thing is that those kind of match-ups never happen — they're a paper product with somewhere between zero and no relation to the realities of the game. The whole notion that you somehow must have T2 presupposes a kind of jousting combat that is so exceedingly rare that it borders on the irrelevant, which renders the entire base notion irrelevant as well.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#253 - 2014-08-30 19:37:47 UTC
^^ If you're involved in a 1v1 you make it a 2v1. The only fair fights are the ones you win.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
#254 - 2014-08-30 19:45:35 UTC
Just blapped a BC with my t1 frigate with a mix of t2 and meta 3/4 mods. It was a glorious struggle which cost me my favorite hobgoblin II drone, which I had named 'Fluffy'. Fluffy's passing did cause me some distress, but I'm sure with time and a suitable dosage of whiskey I will get over it. Sadly this kill did not quite drop enough loots to pay for my next t1 frigate plus mods, but I'm certain that the next one will.
PVP doesn't cost too much to get into, just don't spend all your cash on your ship and don't go into it broke. Oftentimes the modules you loot from your actual kills will more than pay for the hulls and modules you've lost when it turned out it was YOUR turn to wear the clown pants and put the f'n ballgag on.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#255 - 2014-08-30 20:04:34 UTC
^^ Fluffy is dead, long live the new Fluffy.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
#256 - 2014-08-30 20:11:46 UTC
This month alone I've probably netted close to 300m iskies from drops in PVP. I've lost 3 frigs with a total value of 0.07b isk, while destroying 1.54b isk in the process. The only reason my loss cost is so high is that I tried out a ship that I wasn't really skilled (as a player, not a character) in flying. Newbros should NOT fear getting out there and getting their pew on due to costs unless they're putting a significant chunk of their bankroll into each ship. Go forth, wreak havoc, and in the name of all that is holy and hard, have some freaking fun doing it!

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
Aurora Tali
Doomheim
#257 - 2014-09-04 10:43:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Aurora Tali
No one wants to be the Small one XD i joined Brave in my First month (1.5month ago) and wanted it Big plexed my Account and lost 1.5bil :-D. Yeah i also killed and destroyed ships for 1.1bil but when i would have listened to the Dojo start small be usefull as Ewar or tackle frig i think i would still have some isk left from the 1.5bil . Just wanted to say if you want to fly your BC do it ;-) but you can do pvp cheaper till you stop being an easy killmail
Nicolai Serkanner
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#258 - 2014-09-04 10:56:31 UTC
Val'Dore wrote:
The only newbies who can't afford pvp are the ones that listen to people in the noobcorps and buy stupid ships with stupid fittings. Join a real corp.


Like Brave Newbies [Sboon] for instance...
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#259 - 2014-09-04 10:59:30 UTC
I try to remember what it was like when I was new, but then I remember how far I've come with very little help.

I'm not entirely heartless though. If I find a newbro that has the right attitude, I'm more than happy to finance his frigate losses in their entirety up until he feels confident with his abilities. I'll even cover really stupid frigate losses if he's capable of figuring out his own mistakes for himself.

I'm going to be starting a proper PVP apprenticeship program soon with a focus on quality over quantity - train one newbro really well instead of a whole 'class' generically. I'm still working out a few minor details but my experience training newbros so far has resulted in at least four very good PVP'ers that I taught what I could, and who will learn the rest for themselves. There may be others but I never kept track of them.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
heheheh
Phoenix Club
#260 - 2014-09-04 11:00:15 UTC
This game is too much for some people to handle, there is nothing to gain by whining, we were all new players once and we did just fine, now toddle off back to wow.