These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Crime & Punishment

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Rent in Aridia/Genesis/Solitude LS, Surely You're Joking (We're not)

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Lilly Naari
Enclave Security Forces
#21 - 2014-08-29 17:16:36 UTC
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
Tyrone Arran wrote:
You first go of renting lowsec was interesting, but then one day the thread was locked at the op's request. Without knowing more about the old system and what happened, I would be hesitant to rent from you.

Why should I pay you rent, take the time to set up towers and PI, move assets and everything into the region and then find out a couple months later that you are no longer providing 'protection' and moving to another region. People like stability and it only appears that your pervious lowsec rental empire lasted for 3 months, what is different about this one?

What happened to the renters that got left behind when you moved?
How much notice did you give them that you were moving and no longer 'protecting' them?
How long do you plan on staying in Genesis?




And that's a completely legitimate question that I'll answer.

Long story short, once we kicked out the old rulers of Khanid, pvp stagnated, and activity went down because for 10 months out of the year, Khanid is pretty dead. Our allies, EE had more action in Genesis and we had people in our alliance already fly with them. When BL came and blobbed with their 200 man Ishtard fleets, there was little incentive to stay. We knew BL would come and go, they have cycles of success matched by failures, but regardless Khanid was far too quiet for us.

So we moved where there was more action. Genesis has that and in essence that's what's "different" to answer that question.

What happened to the clients after we left? Some of them joined us, some moved out, some stayed and some are in talks with me currently to join our Genesis program.

Notice was given as soon as I found out. We moved out a couple of weeks afterward. It's lowsec, not sov, no one's tied down. That's the awesome thing about it.

Genesis is our home, our coalition lives here and it provides us enough content that I really don't see us moving.


Well at least one corp has an Idea of what it meant to be a pirate Pre-Trinity.

Something I am sure some of the carebear corps are wondering and perhaps what might be a difficult question for you to answer is:

1. How do you deal with reds/KOS/Blacklisted individuals. An example that might help clarify is CVA, they charge rent to some, and claim the same things you do, but then when you need them they are no where to be found, and the only combat they see is when a major threat comes along.

So the little guy is left to fend for themselves. I know, I know, it's EvE. But for a protection service, the corp or alliance must take responsibility for the service it is offering, and failing to protect their clients (Baring stupidity of course), Responsibility and blame Should fall on the corp/Alliance offering said protection for said amount of ISK, Maybe in the form of ship replacement or some other method of guaranteed coverage.

So what is your policy concerning such?

(PS. I've written several charters for systems like this and many others in the past for corps and governments in EvE, so I am genuinely curious about this as you can well imagine, it is a severely complex issue).
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#22 - 2014-08-29 17:30:41 UTC
I have removed a rule breaking post and those quoting it.

The Rules:
5. Trolling is prohibited.

Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#23 - 2014-08-30 02:27:18 UTC
Lilly Naari wrote:
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
Tyrone Arran wrote:
You first go of renting lowsec was interesting, but then one day the thread was locked at the op's request. Without knowing more about the old system and what happened, I would be hesitant to rent from you.

Why should I pay you rent, take the time to set up towers and PI, move assets and everything into the region and then find out a couple months later that you are no longer providing 'protection' and moving to another region. People like stability and it only appears that your pervious lowsec rental empire lasted for 3 months, what is different about this one?

What happened to the renters that got left behind when you moved?
How much notice did you give them that you were moving and no longer 'protecting' them?
How long do you plan on staying in Genesis?




And that's a completely legitimate question that I'll answer.

Long story short, once we kicked out the old rulers of Khanid, pvp stagnated, and activity went down because for 10 months out of the year, Khanid is pretty dead. Our allies, EE had more action in Genesis and we had people in our alliance already fly with them. When BL came and blobbed with their 200 man Ishtard fleets, there was little incentive to stay. We knew BL would come and go, they have cycles of success matched by failures, but regardless Khanid was far too quiet for us.

So we moved where there was more action. Genesis has that and in essence that's what's "different" to answer that question.

What happened to the clients after we left? Some of them joined us, some moved out, some stayed and some are in talks with me currently to join our Genesis program.

Notice was given as soon as I found out. We moved out a couple of weeks afterward. It's lowsec, not sov, no one's tied down. That's the awesome thing about it.

Genesis is our home, our coalition lives here and it provides us enough content that I really don't see us moving.


Well at least one corp has an Idea of what it meant to be a pirate Pre-Trinity.

Something I am sure some of the carebear corps are wondering and perhaps what might be a difficult question for you to answer is:

1. How do you deal with reds/KOS/Blacklisted individuals. An example that might help clarify is CVA, they charge rent to some, and claim the same things you do, but then when you need them they are no where to be found, and the only combat they see is when a major threat comes along.

So the little guy is left to fend for themselves. I know, I know, it's EvE. But for a protection service, the corp or alliance must take responsibility for the service it is offering, and failing to protect their clients (Baring stupidity of course), Responsibility and blame Should fall on the corp/Alliance offering said protection for said amount of ISK, Maybe in the form of ship replacement or some other method of guaranteed coverage.

So what is your policy concerning such?

(PS. I've written several charters for systems like this and many others in the past for corps and governments in EvE, so I am genuinely curious about this as you can well imagine, it is a severely complex issue).



Well truthfully nobody can ever really provide a service where they sit there and post guard for every ratter or mining op that goes on. I tell clients that (which as of last night we have some!) that from the start. What I can say however is that by the "eco-system" of the region, a natural relationship develops. It's a bit like how sharks and remora fish live together. The shark does what a shark does, kill other fish. The remora does what it does and simply by being near the shark, it is protected. So it isn't by some sort of op called or fleet formed that we specifically go out and protect our clients. We shoot non blues regardless of who they are in our area and because of this our clients are for the most part safe. It's just that some others can choose to make a living in the area without worrying too much about other predators and we help each other out.

The biggest advantage is that we live with our clients. If you go to rent in 0.0, you are given the system you paid for and you probably won't see your patrons. The seclusion acts as a form of protection that is true and that is enough for some while it may not be enough for others. That's the beauty of options, you have several of them and for some one option works and for others, another.
Lilly Naari
Enclave Security Forces
#24 - 2014-08-30 02:45:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Lilly Naari
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
Lilly Naari wrote:
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
Tyrone Arran wrote:
You first go of renting lowsec was interesting, but then one day the thread was locked at the op's request. Without knowing more about the old system and what happened, I would be hesitant to rent from you.

Why should I pay you rent, take the time to set up towers and PI, move assets and everything into the region and then find out a couple months later that you are no longer providing 'protection' and moving to another region. People like stability and it only appears that your pervious lowsec rental empire lasted for 3 months, what is different about this one?

What happened to the renters that got left behind when you moved?
How much notice did you give them that you were moving and no longer 'protecting' them?
How long do you plan on staying in Genesis?




And that's a completely legitimate question that I'll answer.

Long story short, once we kicked out the old rulers of Khanid, pvp stagnated, and activity went down because for 10 months out of the year, Khanid is pretty dead. Our allies, EE had more action in Genesis and we had people in our alliance already fly with them. When BL came and blobbed with their 200 man Ishtard fleets, there was little incentive to stay. We knew BL would come and go, they have cycles of success matched by failures, but regardless Khanid was far too quiet for us.

So we moved where there was more action. Genesis has that and in essence that's what's "different" to answer that question.

What happened to the clients after we left? Some of them joined us, some moved out, some stayed and some are in talks with me currently to join our Genesis program.

Notice was given as soon as I found out. We moved out a couple of weeks afterward. It's lowsec, not sov, no one's tied down. That's the awesome thing about it.

Genesis is our home, our coalition lives here and it provides us enough content that I really don't see us moving.


Well at least one corp has an Idea of what it meant to be a pirate Pre-Trinity.

Something I am sure some of the carebear corps are wondering and perhaps what might be a difficult question for you to answer is:

1. How do you deal with reds/KOS/Blacklisted individuals. An example that might help clarify is CVA, they charge rent to some, and claim the same things you do, but then when you need them they are no where to be found, and the only combat they see is when a major threat comes along.

So the little guy is left to fend for themselves. I know, I know, it's EvE. But for a protection service, the corp or alliance must take responsibility for the service it is offering, and failing to protect their clients (Baring stupidity of course), Responsibility and blame Should fall on the corp/Alliance offering said protection for said amount of ISK, Maybe in the form of ship replacement or some other method of guaranteed coverage.

So what is your policy concerning such?

(PS. I've written several charters for systems like this and many others in the past for corps and governments in EvE, so I am genuinely curious about this as you can well imagine, it is a severely complex issue).



Well truthfully nobody can ever really provide a service where they sit there and post guard for every ratter or mining op that goes on. I tell clients that (which as of last night we have some!) that from the start. What I can say however is that by the "eco-system" of the region, a natural relationship develops. It's a bit like how sharks and remora fish live together. The shark does what a shark does, kill other fish. The remora does what it does and simply by being near the shark, it is protected. So it isn't by some sort of op called or fleet formed that we specifically go out and protect our clients. We shoot non blues regardless of who they are in our area and because of this our clients are for the most part safe. It's just that some others can choose to make a living in the area without worrying too much about other predators and we help each other out.

The biggest advantage is that we live with our clients. If you go to rent in 0.0, you are given the system you paid for and you probably won't see your patrons. The seclusion acts as a form of protection that is true and that is enough for some while it may not be enough for others. That's the beauty of options, you have several of them and for some one option works and for others, another.



Ah So essentially you all centralize around your main Renter Hubs and patrol regularly and daily. I see. Yea, that's a lot better protection wise then what many of the 0.0 Alliances offer, and with the new Lowsec Changes to Industry (Better Ores available etc), I am positive many corps will find Alliances like yours to be much better patrons, then the 0.0 Alliances.

Another question, How do you deal with Logistics concerning your patrons, I am guessing you camp the pipes in and out pretty hard yes?
Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#25 - 2014-08-30 04:26:07 UTC
Sharks going to be sharks. So yes. Genesis is so close to Amarr as well, logistics is very easy. And Amarr really is a better market to sell in than Jita quality wise.
kiser horgan
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#26 - 2014-08-31 10:03:47 UTC
Renting Lowsec whats next Jita 4-4 hahaha
Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#27 - 2014-08-31 16:42:43 UTC
Confirming lowsec = jita 4-4
Don Purple
Snuggle Society
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#28 - 2014-08-31 18:35:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Don Purple
Surely you're joking are some great guys, throw money at them.

I am just here to snuggle and do spy stuff.
Django Askulf
Black Rebel Death Squad
#29 - 2014-08-31 21:25:04 UTC
lol.
Mike Adoulin
Happys Happy Hamster Hunting Club
#30 - 2014-08-31 23:48:46 UTC
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
Confirming lowsec = jita 4-4



Apologize to lowsec.

Now.

Everything in EVE is a trap.

And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)

You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.

Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
Darth Terona
Horde Vanguard.
Pandemic Horde
#31 - 2014-09-01 05:37:54 UTC
Confirming new hunting ground.
Karl Jerr
Herzack Unit
#32 - 2014-09-01 13:58:38 UTC
Hehe that's why I seen some more SYJ activity in the area... Well more people to flee from then, = more fun Twisted
Koz Katral
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#33 - 2014-09-01 14:55:32 UTC
It agonises me to to agree with Seraph, but having experienced a similar symbiotic situation recently, this is actually a really good idea. SYJ keep their word - It's what they do.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#34 - 2014-09-04 01:06:20 UTC
I would like to rent some lowsec space that provides zero benefits.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#35 - 2014-09-04 01:20:24 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
I would like to rent some lowsec space that provides zero benefits.



The benefits you get in lowsec correlates directly with your IQ level. In such case I cannot say this service is of much use to one such as yourself.
Starrakatt
Empire Assault Corp
Dead Terrorists
#36 - 2014-09-04 08:05:33 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
I would like to rent some lowsec space that provides zero benefits.

It would seem to me that the greatest benefit would actually NOT to be in nulsec.

But then I have been wrong before.

Pray continue.

Join Celtic Anarchy!

Sneaky bastard.
Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#37 - 2014-09-08 04:12:10 UTC
Koz Katral wrote:
It agonises me to to agree with Seraph, but having experienced a similar symbiotic situation recently, this is actually a really good idea. SYJ keep their word - It's what they do.



Best endorsement right here. And Koz doesn't even like me cause of ~reasons~
Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#38 - 2014-09-15 00:33:33 UTC
Program is going well thus far. If anyone's interested in living in Genesis under our protection, contact me.
Agent O'range
We're Running Low on Lube
#39 - 2014-09-17 13:13:13 UTC
+1 to the idea, as long as SYJ doesn't get tired of not being able to shoot blues that look so tasty. It's always fun to blap someone's mission runner in lowsec. Maybe this will start a new niche in the game that hasn't been previously explored in-depth.
Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
#40 - 2014-09-17 15:36:02 UTC
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:


How does this work? Contact me (Seraph IX Basarab) in game or via Eve mail to negotiate a fair price. Afterward you'll join an in game channel with a list of other members to establish diplomatic ties. You can work together if you'd like or you can ignore one another.


I could see selling blue status but I can't follow selling space.

If I rent a house I get a key. That key lets *me* in AND keeps everyone else out.

How can you achieve something similar in an NPC station? If someone wants to move there then they just move. They don't need to pay anyone for that....

there IS no key....

T-