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What were people wanting from Burner missions?
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Yarda Black
The Black Redemption
#41 - 2014-08-29 09:12:47 UTC
Otuk Andven wrote:
So it seems that Burner missions have failed to live up to people hopes of getting people into PvP.


Not fitting a point is a choice
Not wanting to warp out cos isk/hour is a choice
Optimizing a fit to shoot and tank NPC's is a choice

The only thing standing in the way of people getting into PvP is .... a choice
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#42 - 2014-08-29 09:57:20 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Mission runners ask for more variety with missions & smarter AI. They get exactly that & immediately complain about it.


Most of the mad & butthurt posts seem to be from other people crying about people discussing burners.



To topic, I had hoped (later confirmed as not happening in test server feedback) that they would be neat little missions requiring a point and a basic PvP style for to complete. Not that hard, not that rewarding but a different change of pace and done in something not worthless in a PvP engagement to start bridging the gap.

As it is though, the burner fits are just another esoteric fit requirement which is hopeless in PvP. Whilst that turns out to be their intention I simply feel an opportunity was missed here.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#43 - 2014-08-29 09:59:37 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Mission runners ask for more variety with missions & smarter AI. They get exactly that & immediately complain about it.


Most of the mad & butthurt posts seem to be from other people crying about people discussing burners.


Says he, complaining about people complaining about whingy, unpleasable spoiled children who are complaining that the new stuff isn't to their taste and should be removed.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#44 - 2014-08-29 10:09:59 UTC
Otuk Andven wrote:


So what did people expect/want from Burner missions that the present form doesn't deliver?


Big isk payouts for no effort.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2014-08-29 10:54:20 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Mission runners ask for more variety with missions & smarter AI. They get exactly that & immediately complain about it.


Most of the mad & butthurt posts seem to be from other people crying about people discussing burners.


Says he, complaining about people complaining about whingy, unpleasable spoiled children who are complaining that the new stuff isn't to their taste and should be removed.


You mistake observation for complaint.
Solecist Project
#46 - 2014-08-29 12:34:08 UTC
While I can not say that you're wrong ...
... I can tell you my own observation.


You're a coward hiding behind a faceless npc alt.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#47 - 2014-08-29 12:53:12 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
While I can not say that you're wrong ...
... I can tell you my own observation.


You're a coward hiding behind a faceless npc alt.



1) Stop ad-hom attacks.
2) This character existed before petty judging and name-calling was a "thing", so suck it up princess.
3) Keep on topic.
Big smile
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#48 - 2014-08-29 12:56:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Ramona McCandless
afkalt wrote:

I mistake observation for complaint.


Yes, you do

afkalt wrote:


1) Stop ad-hom attacks.
2) This character existed before petty judging and name-calling was a "thing", so suck it up princess.
3) Keep on topic.
Big smile


1) Make us - you are awful so we attack you
2) So before language was invented?
3) Yeah, you should probably try

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#49 - 2014-08-29 13:24:20 UTC
Kitty Bear wrote:
Sentamon wrote:
they might want to stop doing things like station games.


but they might lose the fight if they stopped doing that.


Sentamon wrote:
they might want to stop doing things like gateganking noobs in industrials.


but it's the only "fight" they know they can win.


Sentamon wrote:
they might want to stop doing things like hotdropping 2 guys with 20 ships.


but they might lose the fight if they stopped doing that.


Only fair fight is a fight I know I cannot lose.

Right?
Solecist Project
#50 - 2014-08-29 13:31:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
afkalt wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
While I can not say that you're wrong ...
... I can tell you my own observation.


You're a coward hiding behind a faceless npc alt.



1) Stop ad-hom attacks.
2) This character existed before petty judging and name-calling was a "thing", so suck it up princess.
3) Keep on topic.
Big smile

Interesting how you mistake my observation for an attack.

Facts...

1. You don't post with your main.
2. You have no face.
3. You are an npc alt.

Conclusion: You are a coward hiding behind a faceless npc alt.

See? A factual statement based on reality.


Post with your main, coward.


y u mad? u r clearly mad. no need 4 mad. k?

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#51 - 2014-08-29 13:39:02 UTC
afkalt wrote:




To topic, I had hoped (later confirmed as not happening in test server feedback) that they would be neat little missions requiring a point and a basic PvP style for to complete. Not that hard, not that rewarding but a different change of pace and done in something not worthless in a PvP engagement to start bridging the gap.


The problem was your assumption. I don't see how someone can make an assumption from facts not in evidence then be disappointed when the thing (that no one ever promised) doesn't happen lol.

CCP said in the missions and complexes forums over and over again over the last 2 years that they are making new tools to eventually bring about the kind of new PVE they and we want, but that they aren't there yet. They told us from day one when they announced these Burner missions that there was only so much that could happen.

It's not their fault is people get their hopes up for no reason.
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#52 - 2014-08-29 13:45:44 UTC
Fozzie, need I say more?
Solecist Project
#53 - 2014-08-29 13:51:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
I feel like you probably can't follow, so let me explain it for you in a way even you understand.

See... the fact that you post with your faceless npc alt instead of your main
means that you are afraid of negative consequences for spreading crap.

That makes you a coward. Factually.

You post things you know people will disagree with ...
... and you MIGHT even know it's crap.

I even give you that. Another thing would be calling you a troll,
but as I don't know if you are smart enough to realise you are spreading crap,
I don't call you a troll! I can't do that, because I don't know if you know!

And as I don't know, calling you a troll would be an ad hominem attack.

If I knew, though, that you were smart enough to realise ...
... then calling you a troll would be a factual statement!


I hope this helps you understanding the difference between a factual statement and a personal attack.

I got distracted several times while writing this post,
so I hope I didn't make any mistakes.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Felicity Love
Doomheim
#54 - 2014-08-29 13:57:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Felicity Love
Otuk Andven wrote:
So it seems that Burner missions have failed to live up to people hopes of getting people into PvP.



You have to realize that this shift towards "arcade" level game content is being done to justify and validate the "6 week" release system.

Can't do much in 6 weeks... or 12 or 24 for that matter... but this is the future of EVE.

For some players, it's great, and if that gives them great game play experience -- then so be it.

But hey, goldfish have awesome attention spans, too.

For the rest of us... I'll be charitable and go with "disappointing".

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#55 - 2014-08-29 14:20:58 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
afkalt wrote:




To topic, I had hoped (later confirmed as not happening in test server feedback) that they would be neat little missions requiring a point and a basic PvP style for to complete. Not that hard, not that rewarding but a different change of pace and done in something not worthless in a PvP engagement to start bridging the gap.


The problem was your assumption. I don't see how someone can make an assumption from facts not in evidence then be disappointed when the thing (that no one ever promised) doesn't happen lol.

CCP said in the missions and complexes forums over and over again over the last 2 years that they are making new tools to eventually bring about the kind of new PVE they and we want, but that they aren't there yet. They told us from day one when they announced these Burner missions that there was only so much that could happen.

It's not their fault is people get their hopes up for no reason.


Again, not complaining - just what I had hoped.

Hope isn't the same as an assumption and I'm not complaining about it. That I think they missed a trick here is an impassive observation is all.

Feels a shame.
Vyl Vit
#56 - 2014-08-29 16:08:02 UTC
What people want is what they're fully entitled to since they paid $15 (or farmed a lot of ore for PLEX). Look at it like the Kings and Queens of a restaurant that want the staff to scrape and bow 'cause they're putting their credit card on the line, and might even leave a tip that's discernible to the naked eye. Maybe Jim Morrison went a tad overboard with, "We want the world and we want it NOW!" More than a few took this a bit more seriously than intended, and in entirely the wrong vein.

They're ENTITLED! (Haven't you heard?)


I wanted the new content to solve world hunger and turn all the AKs into butterflies!

Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.
Astenion
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2014-08-29 22:18:58 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Mission runners ask for more variety with missions & smarter AI. They get exactly that & immediately complain about it.


Eehhh, I dunno about that. More like they asked for a flyswatter to swat a fly on their head and they were handed a flamethrower.
Josef Djugashvilis
#58 - 2014-08-29 22:51:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Josef Djugashvilis
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Mission runners ask for more variety with missions & smarter AI. They get exactly that & immediately complain about it.


Who are the mysterious, 'they' you refer to?

Are 'they' legion, or just a couple of folk posting on the forums?

Any new game idea - variation introduced by CCP always has some folk complaining about it.

Edit:

removed unkind comment

This is not a signature.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#59 - 2014-08-29 23:01:18 UTC
I expected tears about them.

And I got precisely that.

Satisfied customer.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#60 - 2014-08-29 23:04:54 UTC
Burner missions feel somewhat like a tech demo for a possible new NPC AI and design philosophy. Then again I may be overly optimistic.

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics