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Mining Complete Overhaul
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Pryvate Pile
Doomheim
#21 - 2011-12-10 06:48:54 UTC
Change all mining skills, replace the current system with a PI-like static and more passive configuration. Convert current mining barges and exhumers into asteroid/ice/gas harvesting center deployment and interaction vehicles required to set up and maintain their efficient operation.
Boris Ginnungagap
Doomheim
#22 - 2011-12-10 08:37:45 UTC
Mining system could be more dynamic.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#23 - 2011-12-10 12:56:06 UTC
Pryvate Pile wrote:
Change all mining skills, replace the current system with a PI-like static and more passive configuration. Convert current mining barges and exhumers into asteroid/ice/gas harvesting center deployment and interaction vehicles required to set up and maintain their efficient operation.



Just thinking quickly, you would remove:
Mining
Mining Barge
Exhumers

Everything else would need to stay:
Astrogeology
(Ore) Processing (total of 18 skills)
Refining
Refinery Efficiency

You would probably also need to add a few other skills to "balance" this (i.e. PG/CPU for the mining colonies, and how many of them a single player could run).

I could see this "working", but the problem will be that it will overly favour more established players (i.e. pretty much Malcanis' Law).

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Taebris
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2011-12-10 20:19:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Taebris
Quote:
How about allowing a Industrial Command Ship like the Orca or an Exhumer like the Hulk to create a holographic decoy of whatever ship it wants to project using some holo-projector that only mining ships can use? This could make it very interesting for gankers because now they have to run the risk of hitting a target that's not really there (while alerting Concord) in addition to the 100% guarantee that they will lose a ship with no hope of getting an insurance payout.


Or what about allowing Exhumers and mining barges the ability to cloak themselves? The technology is already in game.
CCP would just have to allow the Hulk to use cloaking capabilities. Or this could be implemented on a T3 Hulk.

Quote:
I don't want a BIGGER mining ship. I just want a tankier, speedier one. I'd happily give up some yield for that.
That'd be a perfect thing for a T3 industrial ship to do. Less max yield than the hulk, but more tank, or the ability to be claoky, expanded cargo, fast, etc. Much like T3 cruisers, but with strip miners or mining lasers instead of weapon bays and turrets.


Agree, maybe a bit bigger cargo hold, (although not a deal breaker for me, since I use the Orca), some extra slots to increase tank, and possibly one extra high slot for another strip miner. If you're willing to give up some yeild, remove the MLU's and put in damage control mods maybe on the current Hulk? I don't think a Tech3 Hulk or whatever should compromise yield for tank by default. That should be a player choice.

One idea I have regarding a cloaking device - wouldn't it be easier to tell the bots from actual miners if say, you're out mining, and other ships enter the belt and you suspect nefarious intentions, so you immediately cloak. Whoever just warped into the belt and saw you one second and now doesn't, realizes you're an actual human being since you are simply responding to their presence and preceived possible threat. Obviously if its someone there to gank you, they know you're responding to their presence.

Sure you could program a bot to do the same, ie set it up to cloak itself every so often, or automatically cloak when another ship enters its belt. The only difference being that a human will cloak when he/she percieves a possible threat, not cloak any time ANY ship enters a belt.

This could kill two birds with one stone, 1. separate the humans from the bots and, 2. Provide human miners (especially us soloists) with a way to protect ourselves outside of the obvious strategic implementations such as aligning oneself to a station or planet, moving away from the warp in point, mashing d-scan and watching local.
Pryvate Pile
Doomheim
#25 - 2011-12-10 22:50:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Pryvate Pile
Velicitia wrote:
Pryvate Pile wrote:
Change all mining skills, replace the current system with a PI-like static and more passive configuration. Convert current mining barges and exhumers into asteroid/ice/gas harvesting center deployment and interaction vehicles required to set up and maintain their efficient operation.



Just thinking quickly, you would remove:
Mining
Mining Barge
Exhumers

Everything else would need to stay:
Astrogeology
(Ore) Processing (total of 18 skills)
Refining
Refinery Efficiency

You would probably also need to add a few other skills to "balance" this (i.e. PG/CPU for the mining colonies, and how many of them a single player could run).

I could see this "working", but the problem will be that it will overly favour more established players (i.e. pretty much Malcanis' Law).


You clearly missed my second sentence. I'm not suggesting removing anything, but rather adapting them to the new system.

Hulk pilots want to be afk, it's a fact. They're also after ships that aren't as easy to gank. Why not make the exhumers simply tanky specialist ships that can interact with the new PI-mining systems? That leaves mining barges at the less tanky but cheaper/lower sp alternative, perhaps able to deliver only lower grade modules to the mining operation aswell.

As far as the tertiary mining skills go, integrating them would be part and parcel of the switch over from strait belt-farming-in-ships to the PI method. Of course the rorqual and orca would probably need some re-imagining aswell.

Overall such a switch would be win-win for everyone involved. Mining would become less of a chore, more people would get to make real their dream of mining while they sleep without a bot, and pvp could still occur as roaming gangs came to harass mining structures.
Rharkon
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2011-12-11 05:39:29 UTC
I think that a change to the belts (at least how they look) would be a welcome change. Even something as simple as, say, rather than have all the ore in a straight horizontal line, have them in an immense vertical wall, would spice things up just a bit.

Could mining use actual non-cosmetic changes? Probably. Am I creative enough to come up with those changes on the spot? Hell to the hell no.
Woo Glin
State War Academy
Caldari State
#27 - 2011-12-11 06:07:03 UTC
I'm think of a game where a mine is like a nother mine, but a better mine. For now a mine can be a shoot rock for hours, and make a millions of isks. But then what about a ship? A ship takes millions of mineral for make a ship, but then another ship make a mine and make a ship. If mine makes two mines then what about it? Thats the real answer.
Tasiv Deka
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2011-12-11 09:03:33 UTC
Woo Glin wrote:
I'm think of a game where a mine is like a nother mine, but a better mine. For now a mine can be a shoot rock for hours, and make a millions of isks. But then what about a ship? A ship takes millions of mineral for make a ship, but then another ship make a mine and make a ship. If mine makes two mines then what about it? Thats the real answer.


You sir are the first Goon to actually confuse me... Kudos

Oh, Do go on... no seriously ive got nothing better to do then listen to all the petty arguments and feeble trolling attempts... 

The sad thing is i'm not sure if i'm telling the truth.
Henry Haphorn
Killer Yankee
#29 - 2011-12-11 19:59:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Henry Haphorn
Taebris wrote:
Quote:
How about allowing a Industrial Command Ship like the Orca or an Exhumer like the Hulk to create a holographic decoy of whatever ship it wants to project using some holo-projector that only mining ships can use? This could make it very interesting for gankers because now they have to run the risk of hitting a target that's not really there (while alerting Concord) in addition to the 100% guarantee that they will lose a ship with no hope of getting an insurance payout.


Or what about allowing Exhumers and mining barges the ability to cloak themselves? The technology is already in game.
CCP would just have to allow the Hulk to use cloaking capabilities. Or this could be implemented on a T3 Hulk.


Technically, you can fit a cloaking device on a Hulk (along with two modulated strip miners and a tank of your choice). The downside is that the ship can still be de-cloaked if there is anything within 2000m of your ship. And if you are de-cloaked, your targeting system will be delayed for a while and you will already be locked by the time you get a chance to re-cloak. At that point, your screwed. To make matters worse, the max velocity of a cloaked Hulk is reduce immensely to the point that it's almost crawling in space. A well-experienced pilot that knows how to de-cloak a target can easily find you.

This is why I prefer that CCP introduces a module that generates a holographic duplicate of your ship. This also means that they will have to lock two targets instead of one (thus mitigating their alpha-strike) to ensure they hit the correct target.

Adapt or Die
Skorpynekomimi
#30 - 2011-12-11 20:25:27 UTC
Taebris wrote:
Quote:
How about allowing a Industrial Command Ship like the Orca or an Exhumer like the Hulk to create a holographic decoy of whatever ship it wants to project using some holo-projector that only mining ships can use? This could make it very interesting for gankers because now they have to run the risk of hitting a target that's not really there (while alerting Concord) in addition to the 100% guarantee that they will lose a ship with no hope of getting an insurance payout.


Or what about allowing Exhumers and mining barges the ability to cloak themselves? The technology is already in game.
CCP would just have to allow the Hulk to use cloaking capabilities. Or this could be implemented on a T3 Hulk.

Quote:
I don't want a BIGGER mining ship. I just want a tankier, speedier one. I'd happily give up some yield for that.
That'd be a perfect thing for a T3 industrial ship to do. Less max yield than the hulk, but more tank, or the ability to be claoky, expanded cargo, fast, etc. Much like T3 cruisers, but with strip miners or mining lasers instead of weapon bays and turrets.


Agree, maybe a bit bigger cargo hold, (although not a deal breaker for me, since I use the Orca), some extra slots to increase tank, and possibly one extra high slot for another strip miner. If you're willing to give up some yeild, remove the MLU's and put in damage control mods maybe on the current Hulk? I don't think a Tech3 Hulk or whatever should compromise yield for tank by default. That should be a player choice.

One idea I have regarding a cloaking device - wouldn't it be easier to tell the bots from actual miners if say, you're out mining, and other ships enter the belt and you suspect nefarious intentions, so you immediately cloak. Whoever just warped into the belt and saw you one second and now doesn't, realizes you're an actual human being since you are simply responding to their presence and preceived possible threat. Obviously if its someone there to gank you, they know you're responding to their presence.

Sure you could program a bot to do the same, ie set it up to cloak itself every so often, or automatically cloak when another ship enters its belt. The only difference being that a human will cloak when he/she percieves a possible threat, not cloak any time ANY ship enters a belt.

This could kill two birds with one stone, 1. separate the humans from the bots and, 2. Provide human miners (especially us soloists) with a way to protect ourselves outside of the obvious strategic implementations such as aligning oneself to a station or planet, moving away from the warp in point, mashing d-scan and watching local.



The trouble is, when mining, anything that's not another mining barge is a potential threat to your ship. (And other miners are a threat to your profit margin) I'd be tempted to stay cloaked all the time, unless I'm the only one in the system.
And while I could tank the hulk up some more, it'd still be extremely gankable. I'm thinking something able to sport a BS-level tank, with a covops cloak.
Naturally, you'd be paying a vast amount for it, as it'd be tech3, and you'd lose yield. More yield is not the answer anyway, as that just boosts the bots. I want a more rounded mining ship that's a more effective ship, rather than a more effective miner.

Economic PVP
Gassto
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#31 - 2011-12-11 20:32:02 UTC
What I would love to see:

Add new random rare ores to lowsec and nulll belts say 2 to 5 per belt which can only be minined by a new type of ship built for speed and stealth. The ship would need to scan the ore from the belt, locate it and mine it, all within say 2 mins per ore.

This should bring a new breed of miners to dangerous space and give the low/null sec dwellers something to chase.
NUXI7
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2011-12-11 21:06:34 UTC
Miranda wrote:
Well the belts really need changeing. We have a lovely vast space with nice things to look at and then you find a small bunch of roids that should orbit a sun, planet sitting around a flameing marker.

There called roid belts, there the debris from planet creation they should be massive.


I agree, CCP should make asteroid belts more realistic. Then people would stop mining.
Esunisen
Les Tueurs de Killer
#33 - 2011-12-11 21:21:48 UTC
Just remove the belts and add 1-3 gravi per planet.
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