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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Nestor - Idea

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Altirius Saldiaro
Doomheim
#1 - 2014-08-28 19:39:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Altirius Saldiaro
Thinking of what could potentially make the Nestor a ship worth flying and spending over 1 billion isk on, I kept thinking about Sisters of EVE and their drive towards Exploration. We currently have a variety of ships that can all scan very well. Also, we have rigs and even modules that increase the effectiveness of scanning down signatures. However, we don't have a ship that can scan signatures with just the ship alone.

Would you fly a Nestor if.....

Nestor had:
Ability to scan signatures, without launching probes.
Could be in the form of Right-Clicking the ship to choose a type of Scan. Like is done with Jump Drives and Jump Portals.

8AU Core Scan
-Scanning of Anomalies and Wormholes
4AU Combat Scan
-Scanning of Ships, Wrecks, Structures, Anomalies and Wormholes
2AU Cloak Scan
-Scanning of Cloaked Ships(does not decloak a ship, only detects it as a signature)

Since it's a Battleship, it is slow to align and warp. So it is at greater risk to be out using it's advanced technology. It could become useful in Nullsec where people complain about cloaky campers. With only a 2AU scan range for cloak detection, the ship has to be put out at risk in order to hunt.

The Core and Combat Scanning should be more viable to everyone. The Cloak Scanning should be more of a polarized idea to consider.
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#2 - 2014-08-28 19:45:52 UTC
So is it basically a single probe each time, or all 8 right on the hull?

I mean I could see some use for it, as either a single probe to confirm things are there with the combat one

The anti cloak? why must we be doing this. Cloakers dont do anything to you, and frankly I havent heard of people using depots for mass t3 cloak infiltration to gank attacks (would totally love for this to a be a massively viable thing during the t3 rebalance)
Altirius Saldiaro
Doomheim
#3 - 2014-08-28 20:02:40 UTC
It would be similar to having 8 probes on your position, but can get 100% hits at their respective range. 8 for core, 4 for combat sigs and only 2au max for picking up cloaked sigs.

The cloaked scanner would not decloak a ship. It would simply appear as a signature that could be warped to by the Nestor, bookmarked by the nestor pilot, or the nestor pilot could warp his fleet to it.

If the cloaked ship isnt afk and just sitting in one spot at 0m/s, then they'll remain cloaked when the fleet lands. All it does is detect a cloaked ship within 2au of the nestor, give a warp to point, but the only way the cloaked ship could be decloaked is if they are lazy, dont see the Nestor on dscan and are just sitting in 1 spot not moving.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#4 - 2014-08-28 20:06:55 UTC
A suggestion like this tells me you don't actually know how anomaly and scanning mechanics really work...
NFain
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2014-08-28 20:11:56 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
A suggestion like this tells me you don't actually know how anomaly and scanning mechanics really work...

He does, but he wants to ignore them.
Fer'isam K'ahn
SAS Veterinarians
#6 - 2014-08-28 20:39:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Fer'isam K'ahn
Hmm... either local and d-scan get ignored to artificially create a trait not needed or in case of WH you try to create artificial local (just the count). Either way, by far the worst Nestor suggestion .. and I believe we got like 80 pages or such °°

Good Job ignoring the 24 Page CCP Fozzy Sticky up there.

IB4L
Altirius Saldiaro
Doomheim
#7 - 2014-08-28 20:47:17 UTC
Fer'isam K'ahn wrote:
Hmm... either local and d-scan get ignored to artificially create a trait not needed or in case of WH you try to create artificial local (just the count). Either way, by far the worst Nestor suggestion .. and I believe we got like 80 pages or such °°


I hate local. I've made that clear in other threads. Dscan, I use all the time and would still use even if I was flying a Nestor with this type of scanner.

Explain how this scanner would act as a local channel does. I never said anything about the cloak scanner giving you pilot names, ship type or anything other than it being a cloaked ship within 2AU of the Nestor. I also never said this would be an automatic scan thats continuous either. You have to choose to scan just like you do with probes and dscan.
Fer'isam K'ahn
SAS Veterinarians
#8 - 2014-08-28 20:51:31 UTC
Altirius Saldiaro wrote:
Fer'isam K'ahn wrote:
Hmm... either local and d-scan get ignored to artificially create a trait not needed or in case of WH you try to create artificial local (just the count). Either way, by far the worst Nestor suggestion .. and I believe we got like 80 pages or such °°


I hate local. I've made that clear in other threads. Dscan, I use all the time and would still use even if I was flying a Nestor with this type of scanner.

Explain how this scanner would act as a local channel does. I never said anything about the cloak scanner giving you pilot names, ship type or anything other than it being a cloaked ship within 2AU of the Nestor. I also never said this would be an automatic scan thats continuous either. You have to choose to scan just like you do with probes and dscan.

Looks like you are good at comprehending and reading ... ok, I'll underline it. 3 - 2 - 1 - done Shocked

Just because you dislike it doesn't mean we all have to ignore it so we can pretend the changes are useful. Dooh! Arguments from personal feelings are really on the top of devs list to consider.
Altirius Saldiaro
Doomheim
#9 - 2014-08-28 21:05:41 UTC
Fer'isam K'ahn wrote:
Altirius Saldiaro wrote:
Fer'isam K'ahn wrote:
Hmm... either local and d-scan get ignored to artificially create a trait not needed or in case of WH you try to create artificial local (just the count). Either way, by far the worst Nestor suggestion .. and I believe we got like 80 pages or such °°


I hate local. I've made that clear in other threads. Dscan, I use all the time and would still use even if I was flying a Nestor with this type of scanner.

Explain how this scanner would act as a local channel does. I never said anything about the cloak scanner giving you pilot names, ship type or anything other than it being a cloaked ship within 2AU of the Nestor. I also never said this would be an automatic scan thats continuous either. You have to choose to scan just like you do with probes and dscan.

Looks like you are good at comprehending and reading ... ok, I'll underline it. 3 - 2 - 1 - done Shocked

Just because you dislike it doesn't mean we all have to ignore it so we can pretend the changes are useful. Dooh! Arguments from personal feelings are really on the top of devs list to consider.




The cloak scanner I suggested only has a range of 2au. You do understand that part right?
SFM Hobb3s
Perkone
Caldari State
#10 - 2014-08-28 21:52:08 UTC
Also Nestor is not designed for exploration at all. Those hacking bonuses are just extra.
Momiji Sakora
Omni Galactic
Central Omni Galactic Group
#11 - 2014-08-28 22:10:15 UTC
To be honest they're isolating that the Nestor should be a support ship for the exploration hulls in it's line, this is the direction I've been liking, and the addition of a SMA was a good step.
SGT FUNYOUN
Elysian Space Navy - 1st Fleet
#12 - 2014-08-28 22:43:04 UTC
Evil

Thinly veiled Anti-Cloak thread... No.

Your argument is invalid as has been the argument of literally THOUSANDS of other posts complaining about cloaks...

Stop whining, learn to play, teach yourself how not to be weak, or go back to playing WoW.

If your corporation gets scared back into station when a single cloaker is in the system, then your corporation deserves to be torn to shreds and you should find a less weak corporation.

If cloaks bother you so much, then keep your finger on D-Scan, keep a probe ship with probes close in on the hot zone, 2 more probe ships with their probes circling the hot zone's outer perimeter, and a full battle fleet cloaked on standby with their nodes hot sitting at a safe 10,000KM away. Once that cloak hot drops a skirmish fleet on your head... your battle fleet, aka Quick Reaction Force (QRF) scoots in on top of them with blasters and torpedos and blows them to bits.

Cloaks are SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED to 100% invisible to ALL forms of detection.

You are quite possibly one of at least 100,000 posts griping about how "invincible" a cloak is... that ship CANNOT do anything to you when cloaked and is 9 times out of 10 nothing more than a probe frigate anyway.

Stop whining and man up or stop playing.

Problem solved.
Altirius Saldiaro
Doomheim
#13 - 2014-08-28 23:01:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Altirius Saldiaro
SFM Hobb3s wrote:
Also Nestor is not designed for exploration at all. Those hacking bonuses are just extra.


The Orca isn't designed for exploration either, but I still live out of it when I go explore w-space for weeks at a time.

Interceptors aren't made for exploration either, but when I jump into nullsec to run relic/data sites there, I use a ceptor.

And to the simpleton who is butt hurt about the cloak scanner, I actually want cloaked players to not show up in local in k-space. So im definitely not anti-cloaking. I love cloaking. Spend most my game time in a cloaky proteus. My alt in an orca cloaked up. And a few of my scanning alts cloaked up on different holes.
SGT FUNYOUN
Elysian Space Navy - 1st Fleet
#14 - 2014-08-28 23:43:51 UTC
Altirius Saldiaro wrote:
SFM Hobb3s wrote:
Also Nestor is not designed for exploration at all. Those hacking bonuses are just extra.


The Orca isn't designed for exploration either, but I still live out of it when I go explore w-space for weeks at a time.

Interceptors aren't made for exploration either, but when I jump into nullsec to run relic/data sites there, I use a ceptor.

And to the simpleton who is butt hurt about the cloak scanner, I actually want cloaked players to not show up in local in k-space. So im definitely not anti-cloaking. I love cloaking. Spend most my game time in a cloaky proteus. My alt in an orca cloaked up. And a few of my scanning alts cloaked up on different holes.



If all that were true, then you would see the problem with an anti-cloak scanner... no matter if it de-cloaks a ship OR NOT... the fact of the matter is that a cloak is specifically built to not be detectable AT ALL... if your goofy cloak scanner comes into being it destroys one of the very facets of what a cloak is... a shield of invisibility.

If Frodo's cloak was able to be "Scanned" by some soldier with a couple of magicians locator spells, that would have made for a pretty short run at Mordor and would have made the elves out to be incompetent idiots.

' Cloak (verb) - To Hide or Conceal. '

A cloak is a Shield of Invisibility, it does not give you immunity, it does not give you power, it does not give invincibility... you are the same as you were before, just see through.

Cloaks can ONLY do so much and people like you saying, "oh well I fly all these great ships and sit all cloaked all the time... and yet I want a ship fitting that CAN SCAN DOWN MY SHIP AND BE USED BY EVERY GANKER IN THE GAME TO BLOW MY 2 BIL FIT SHIP TO PIECES AND BREAK THE VERY PREMISE OF WHAT CLOAKING IS!!!"

Think about it from a 3rd person point of view... not just your own narrow cockpit.
Alcorak
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#15 - 2014-08-29 01:20:20 UTC
A ship that can insta-combat scan 100%? im going to go with no at any range. No more rolling safes, no more off-grid boosts, no more gate perches, squad warp to land tackles on whatever you happen to be able to catch on scan when u pop up in local.

While I also support a counter to afk cloaking (anything in space outside a pos shield should be vulnerable), I don't think sneaking it into a ship buff/rework is the way to go about a very sensitive topic, though a class of ships that could sub-hunt cloakers would be fun imho.

Seeing wormholes instantly on scan though, I would have no issue with. By itself though, it's almost a silly addition to a still worthless ship.
SGT FUNYOUN
Elysian Space Navy - 1st Fleet
#16 - 2014-08-29 04:35:51 UTC
Alcorak wrote:
A ship that can insta-combat scan 100%? im going to go with no at any range. No more rolling safes, no more off-grid boosts, no more gate perches, squad warp to land tackles on whatever you happen to be able to catch on scan when u pop up in local.

While I also support a counter to afk cloaking (anything in space outside a pos shield should be vulnerable), I don't think sneaking it into a ship buff/rework is the way to go about a very sensitive topic, though a class of ships that could sub-hunt cloakers would be fun imho.

Seeing wormholes instantly on scan though, I would have no issue with. By itself though, it's almost a silly addition to a still worthless ship.



Ok, I think if there was a specific ship that had an advantage to detection of cloaks, that I could see as an advantage and a fun way to make cloaking more realistic. Being able to scan down a cloak ship, being able to decloak a cloaked ship, or any other variant of this subject is a no...

However, as a cloaker myself, a T3 subsystem driven cloak hunter with a "ghost hunter" d-scan function perhaps could work. I am thinking destroyer class or frigate class. It can't decloak it, it can't get a 100% fix on a cloaker's location by just having one ship in the vicinity. It would be a ship that would be designed to hunt cloakers yes, but it would be very ineffective except in greater than 1 or 2 numbers. I could get behind a hunter killer team system... not just a straight up cloak nerf, not a scanner module, not a scan probe proto-boost... none of that crap.

Cloaks are HARD to find for a reason, and should stay that way.
ISD Decoy
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#17 - 2014-08-29 06:42:58 UTC
Please see this thread for continuing this discussion.
Quote:
17. Redundant and re-posted threads will be locked.

As a courtesy to other forum users, please search to see if there is a thread already open on the topic you wish to discuss. If so, please place your comments there instead. Multiple threads on the same subject clutter up the forums needlessly, causing good feedback and ideas to be lost. Please keep discussions regarding a topic to a single thread.

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