These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Are you satisfied with the final Hybrid re-balance?
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#101 - 2011-11-19 12:41:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Grath Telkin
Grimpak wrote:



I said mobility, not just agility. mobility, afaik, comprehends both speed and agility.

if a vagabond is faster than a deimos, moves better than a deimos, and hits farther than a deimos for a negligable damage diference, isn't the vagabond better?


A vaga at 20km is already doing half damage as he's at his first full falloff marker. So if you had barrage loaded your doing a whopping 150-200 dps at 20km. That doesn't count tracking bringing the damage down.

A null loaded Deimos can easily pull that at that exact same range, and he's firing into the Vaga's resist hole.


If the Vaga really wants to hurt the deimos with any real form of damage he needs to close inside 20km, where the Deimos's damage will be significantly worse for him to bear.

If the vaga wants to stay out of the Deimos's damage envelope he'll be skating a very thin line trying to stay inside point range. If he cuts his MWD to avoid tracking issues or save cap he's in danger of getting buffalo charged by the deimos (a plated Deimos can jump up around 2k with heat). If he choses to apply damage at 30km with barrage thats fine too, because even if its wet noodle paper bag DPS its outside of warp disruptor range and the Deimos just warps off.

I've flat out offered to PROVE to you on the TEST server over and over again about the changes, but you chose to ignore it, so all you're doing at this point is talking a lot.

Either show up or wait for the 29th, but you're theories on space ships are flawed and you're evidently scared to have it proved to you.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Soddington Smythe
A Big Enough Lever
#102 - 2011-11-19 12:49:30 UTC
Essentially CCP have kindly consented to stop standing on my windpipe for a while ,as well as looking into the possibility of ceasing to urinate in my coffee.

At the risk of sounding like a domestic violence victim, I'm a little bit thankful about the Hybrid buff.
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#103 - 2011-11-19 12:57:05 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Either show up or wait for the 29th, but you're theories on space ships are flawed and you're evidently scared to have it proved to you.



I prefer to wait for the 29th and be completely wrong than going to the test server and engage in an artificial mock battle. I do hope you're right, but from personal experience with these same hulls, the boosts do feel like were simply not enough.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Mag's
Azn Empire
#104 - 2011-11-19 13:01:45 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
TEST server...................scared...............
Lol

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Autonomous Monster
Paradox Interstellar
#105 - 2011-11-19 13:40:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Autonomous Monster
Grimpak wrote:
I prefer to wait for the 29th and be completely wrong than going to the test server and engage in an artificial mock battle.

Why? Straight

Is it just straight up not giving enough of a **** or what?
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#106 - 2011-11-19 14:32:44 UTC
Autonomous Monster wrote:
Grimpak wrote:
I prefer to wait for the 29th and be completely wrong than going to the test server and engage in an artificial mock battle.

Why? Straight

Is it just straight up not giving enough of a **** or what?
mostly that.

been asking for a coherent boost to hybrids for a fuckton of time, and all they came up was with an half-assed response.

oh well, at least the naga seems to be a nice hybrid ship.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
LarpingBard
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#107 - 2011-12-02 01:17:42 UTC
Railguns need to have silly high alpha because of the usage of expensive ammo and capacitor. Think about it...think about a sniper rifle. One shot, high alpha, but maybe just a double tap and a small magazine. I like x2 volley but double time to shoot. Just saying.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#108 - 2011-12-02 01:25:12 UTC
I think the blasters are okay now. I mean when I warp on top of my target it reall rips into them now.

As others said though there needs to be something for blaster ships to get closer to thier targets.

Maybe a skip drive or something?

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#109 - 2011-12-02 01:25:58 UTC
Artilery > Sniper.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Drew Solaert
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#110 - 2011-12-02 01:34:43 UTC
I feel like the changes have bridged the gap, yes more can be done, but being a hybrid user I'm always going to be biased about that.

I lied :o
Pestilent Industries
Doomheim
#111 - 2011-12-02 01:55:27 UTC
I think it is okay for now, if it isnt enough they can buff them again. CCP has a history of over buffing or over nerfing so this is a good start. I am amazed actually
Renge Ukyo
Doomheim
#112 - 2011-12-10 02:50:35 UTC
(Continued)

In addition to that, because it's got such ******** power, the cap use of a hybrid turret would be phenomenal, and well above that of the laser systems.

And lastly we come to the blasters. Not only is the science fiction and science fact information sketchy at best as to -how- this would theoretically operate, let me just say that a rapid discharge of power coming from a focused emitter would severely deplete its power source and the emp emitted from that kind of system would basically crash any sort of electrical system on the craft it was attached too. Additionally, because it's such a short weapon, it should theoretically be able to shoot the fly off an apple from 500 meters, and again because it's got this whole near-light-speed-plasma-based-projectile thing going on, it really should be a mean son of a ***** from about 0-10kilomters.

Unless of courser you -really- think that you're gonna get a 200m projectile to move fast enough in space to do any real damage, let alone an 800mm one... CCP you astound me with your stupidity.

So lets stop wasting our time on hybrids, or alternatively just give them comparably stats of other turret systems since we're ignoring anything that resembles reality anyway, and give the Gallente a fighting chance, instead of this years version of the ford pinto.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#113 - 2011-12-10 06:11:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Nova Fox
Arrrg.

Blasters predetonate the cores and contain the explosion in a magnetic field before railgunning the entire slag out the vent. This forms a shotgun pattern as the magnetic fields fail shortly after range leaving the magnetizied peices of slag to contain the ingited mediums.

The means of detonation can be easily contained in the shell itself, just the shell isnt let go in blaster's case where a railgun only detonates as it hits which is why its so much lower damage becuase the shape charge only does so much like a firecracker on a flat hand. Where the blaster is litterally raining molten plasma embuned bolts at the enemy and with the fields disspiating into the target forcing the exciement to fuse with the surface of the target. Hence Hybrid there is some energy in the shell and it takes power to make full use of it.

Railgunning by either methoods in thoery are lower energy cost compared the need of containing a nuclear explosion catalysted into a barreled array down range within a crystal matrix to electron strip the material and then obtain focal onto target and have nothing get destroyed in the process.

Remember Sir Issac Newton is the third deadliest son-of-a-freedo after Murphy and Darwin in the holy space trinity.

Overall I think blasters are okay for PVE now as they down ships pertty fast and almost competiviely against others provided you start timing from first possible shooting.

Which means that more help is required for the ships than there when it comes to covering distnaces.

Though I wouldnt mind seeing railguns being made into the longest ranged sniper wepaon in the game. While you let lasers retain the best short ranged engagement envelope.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Ka P'lah
Doomheim
#114 - 2011-12-10 07:56:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Ka P'lah
Yep, +1...for now...
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#115 - 2011-12-10 09:25:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
A bit of a necro on this thread, but I think it's a good start as well.

They have said that they might re-envision hybrids at some point. I've been kind of thinking about that.

If they do decide to do more fundamental changes to them one idea that would not call for a lot of additional elements to be designed would be to switch up their traditional way of doing damage. I think it would be interesting if they became some what the opposite of projectile weaponry.

Give blasters a much slower rate of fire, but tremendous alpha. Point blank range artillery if you will (more like a mortar).

Give Rails a much higher rate of fire, with moderate but accurate (and near continuous) damage at range. Strong DPS potential but minimal alpha. Think of it as a long range auto cannon that instead rapidly cycles magnetic pulses up the rails to fire their charges at the enemy.

To me this fits the prime fiction of the weapons a bit more accurately, and opens up some new options in tactics and fleet composition.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Baden Luskan
Freeworlds Collective
#116 - 2011-12-10 10:58:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Baden Luskan
Numerically, a hybrid platform does comparable dps now. But the way it is applied makes railguns very useless for PvP. DPS is a simple number derived form damage per a bullet divided by rate of fire. So, you can high the same DPS from railguns (small damage, but high rate of fire) that you can have from artilery (BIG damage but a very slow rate of fire). Seeing as alpha is king in PvP thanks to logistics, the railgun turret is very inefficient in acomplishing anything in fleet battles. Its does so little damage per volley fo fire, but its rate of fire is not fast enough to make up for it when repping is involved.

A logistics ship will respond to a ship needing repping within 5 seconds. This means that any useful DPS needs to be applied before then. Even if you stack rate of fire modules on a railgun platform, the weapon still does not fire fast enough to compensate for the lack of volley damage it does. In other words, all the damage they do will be repped before the ship dies. This makes using them in PvP pointless, especially when artilery does the job SO MUCH BETTER.

This would not be a big issue, but Caldari are also gimped in PvP with their other weapon system. I love missiles. They are easy to use, versitle, and pack a good punch and have great range. Unfortunatly, their travel time to target makes them have simular issues with alpha damage. The delay between launchig them and the missile landing on target makes them less deseraible than projectiles or lasers.

This means the most deseriable weapon platforms for PvP, from best to worst, are projectiles, lasers, missiles, and finally hybrids. So the Caldari have the 2 least popular platforms for PvP. Well, atleast Caldari are great for PvE or they would be as rare as Gallante.

In my opinion, tweak the rate of fire and damage so they fire even faster while still keeping the same DPS. This would allow them to be more useful in PvP while not affecting their usefullness in PvE.

Also, I think there needs to be more variation in ammo. Part of the reason Hybrids do not fare as well in PvP is because they do only kinetic and thermal damage. Most ships come with a high kinetic resist, so alot of their damage is mitigated. If a player had more combonations to choose from for ammo, he could curtail weapon systems to fit his needs. Allowing each race to have access to 3 damage types as opposed to just 2, would go a long way in making rarely used turret systems more popular again without causing balance issues.