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The costs of PVP is too much for new players
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Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#161 - 2014-08-28 17:55:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Tolkaz Khamsi wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
That's the bottom line. You pay to play the game, and access CCP's servers. You don't pay to be good at it.


Boy, you must be a blast at parties.

Repeat after me: this is a GAME. It's meant as ENTERTAINMENT.

The amount of humorlessness and EVE IS SERIOUS BUSINESS in this thread is just...well, exactly what I've come to expect from a subset of Eve players over the years, actually.

But hey, if you want to treat Eve as a second job that you don't even get paid to do, go right ahead. I'd prefer to have fun with Eve, and for other players to have fun with me, but that's just me.


I would be if I went to parties. But you missed my point - it takes time to get good at stuff, even games. Especially games. 'Entertainment' is not an excuse for entitled whining about how you suck and need your hand held by game developers, while the rest of us actually strive to be good at it. I have great fun with EVE, I have since I started playing. I was having fun when I sucked because I enjoyed learning about how to get better, I had fun throughout the process of getting better, and now I'm having even more fun having learned and become quite good at it. You want to have that same fun? Stop whining and demanding you get it now, and start learning like the rest of us have.

What you're actually seeing from a 'subset of eve players' is experience. That's why I used my chef's analogy - EVE veterans are chefs, and you are the apprentices. You don't know what we do because you haven't learned it yet.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
#162 - 2014-08-28 17:56:12 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Harrison Tato wrote:


It's fine as long as you aren't a CCP stockholder. I understand the sentiment though.


This is that always fake "I care about CCPs wallet" meme lol.

If the stockholders are that concerned, why did they let CCP make EVE instead of WoW? Did they not know EVE (and spaceships and sandbox games in general) is niche and there is only so much money to be hand in a non-mass appeal niche?



See my point above lol.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#163 - 2014-08-28 17:57:15 UTC
Tolkaz Khamsi wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
That's the bottom line. You pay to play the game, and access CCP's servers. You don't pay to be good at it.


Boy, you must be a blast at parties.

Repeat after me: this is a GAME. It's meant as ENTERTAINMENT.

The amount of humorlessness and EVE IS SERIOUS BUSINESS in this thread is just...well, exactly what I've come to expect from a subset of Eve players over the years, actually.

But hey, if you want to treat Eve as a second job that you don't even get paid to do, go right ahead. I'd prefer to have fun with Eve, and for other players to have fun with me, but that's just me.

i bet you dont enjoy chess

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
#164 - 2014-08-28 17:57:24 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:

I would be if I went to parties.


Color me shocked!
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#165 - 2014-08-28 17:57:43 UTC
Its worked for CCP so far.
Prince Kobol
#166 - 2014-08-28 17:57:53 UTC
Tolkaz Khamsi wrote:


What other game have you ever played in your life that didn't come with a tutorial level or instructions to tell you how to play it? Eve is a *game*, not a second job. I don't think a lot of players understand that. It's supposed to be *entertainment*. It's supposed to be *fun* -- and fun for new players as well as existing ones.




Well If I go back to when I first started playing games then most of them lol. I can honestly put my hand on my heart and say I have never read an instruction manual for a game to learn how to play it.

The are only 2 reason why I have ever opened an instruction manual.

1. Star Wars - Tie Fighter. Great Story that was included with the game.

2. Back in the day to combat people copying games they would have at the back of the manual a code section. Think towards the end Terminator 3 when they girls fathers code book to open the door.

Alien Breed comes to mind.

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#167 - 2014-08-28 17:57:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Harrison Tato wrote:
Not exactly a recipe for attracting a lot of today's utes with the attention span of gnats.
Good, some of them are like parasites, they infect a game with their instant gratification bullshit, devs cater to them, the game dies because it's become ridiculously easy and thus boring, they move onto the next game and repeat the process.


Yep. I've been playing MMo's since the 2D games like The Realm. It's happened in each and every single one of them.
Thankfully CCP seem to know their target audience, and so far have refused to cater to the lowest common denominator, they leave that to all the other MMO's that have failed during Eves lifetime.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
#168 - 2014-08-28 17:59:13 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Tolkaz Khamsi wrote:


What other game have you ever played in your life that didn't come with a tutorial level or instructions to tell you how to play it? Eve is a *game*, not a second job. I don't think a lot of players understand that. It's supposed to be *entertainment*. It's supposed to be *fun* -- and fun for new players as well as existing ones.




Well If I go back to when I first started playing games then most of them lol. I can honestly put my hand on my heart and say I have never read an instruction manual for a game to learn how to play it.

The are only 2 reason why I have ever opened an instruction manual.

1. Star Wars - Tie Fighter. Great Story that was included with the game.

2. Back in the day to combat people copying games they would have at the back of the manual a code section. Think towards the end Terminator 3 when they girls fathers code book to open the door.

Alien Breed comes to mind.



Back in the 80's you had to buy the game to get a manual.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#169 - 2014-08-28 17:59:15 UTC
Harrison Tato wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Harrison Tato wrote:


It's fine as long as you aren't a CCP stockholder. I understand the sentiment though.


This is that always fake "I care about CCPs wallet" meme lol.

If the stockholders are that concerned, why did they let CCP make EVE instead of WoW? Did they not know EVE (and spaceships and sandbox games in general) is niche and there is only so much money to be hand in a non-mass appeal niche?



See my point above lol.


lol is right.

You didn't make a point. You mention 'stockholders' as if it's relevant, then all you can say is lol when it's pointed out that that isn't very smart.

l

o

l
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#170 - 2014-08-28 17:59:38 UTC
Harrison Tato wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:

I would be if I went to parties.


Color me shocked!



You are so cool the way you totally ignored Remiel's points and basically pointed and laughed at a throwaway statement.

Go you.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#171 - 2014-08-28 18:00:46 UTC
Tolkaz Khamsi wrote:
Repeat after me: this is a GAME. It's meant as ENTERTAINMENT.
You use the words game and entertainment in allcaps as a counter to the statement that you don't get to be good on day 1.

This says nothing about games, entertainment, or the post you quoted, but it does say a lot about you.

Pic related

Witty Image - Stream

Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
#172 - 2014-08-28 18:01:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Harrison Tato
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Harrison Tato wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:

I would be if I went to parties.


Color me shocked!



You are so cool the way you totally ignored Remiel's points and basically pointed and laughed at a throwaway statement.

Go you.


I know. I have a hard time dealing with my own awesomeness most of the time! I thought it summed up the attitudes of many of the people who play EvE but don't get to ride in the FunVee.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#173 - 2014-08-28 18:01:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Harrison Tato wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:

I would be if I went to parties.


Color me shocked!



I used to party a lot. I was always the first one to get drunk and naked and start singing karaoke at the top of my lungs from the roof of whatever was easiest to climb. You have to know how to let loose on the weekends after a week of cooking for more than 300 people in the space of two hours, five nights a week. I'm 31 now, I still have fun but after a brush with cancer and a veritable gamut of life problems, I've found myself calming down substantially and finding new ways to have fun without exerting myself.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#174 - 2014-08-28 18:02:20 UTC
Crumplecorn wrote:
Tolkaz Khamsi wrote:
Repeat after me: this is a GAME. It's meant as ENTERTAINMENT.
You use the words game and entertainment in allcaps as a counter to the statement that you don't get to be good on day 1.

This says nothing about games, entertainment, or the post you quoted, but it does say a lot about you.

Pic related


The pic is ******* awesome. Damn if it doesn't make the exact right point lol.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#175 - 2014-08-28 18:03:16 UTC
Harrison Tato wrote:

I know. I have a hard time dealing with my own awesomeness most of the time! I thought it summed up the attitudes of many of the people who play EvE but don't get to ride in the FunVee.


Display some awesomeness and actually address the points given.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
#176 - 2014-08-28 18:03:34 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Harrison Tato wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:

I would be if I went to parties.


Color me shocked!



I used to party a lot. I was always the first one to get drunk and naked and start singing karaoke at the top of my lungs from the roof of whatever was easiest to climb. You have to know how to let loose on the weekends after a week of cooking for more than 300 people in the space of two hours, five nights a week. I'm 31 now, I still have fun but after a brush with cancer and a veritable gamut of life problems, I've found myself calming down substantially and finding new ways to have fun without exerting myself.



I had a guy run over my motorcycle while doing 70 miles an hour. I still enjoy a good party but never did karaoke or ran around drunk and naked.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#177 - 2014-08-28 18:03:50 UTC
Harrison Tato wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Harrison Tato wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:

I would be if I went to parties.


Color me shocked!



You are so cool the way you totally ignored Remiel's points and basically pointed and laughed at a throwaway statement.

Go you.


I know. I have a hard time dealing with my own awesomeness most of the time! I thought it summed up the attitudes of many of the people who play EvE but don't get to ride in the FunVee.
\

Ah, the 'standard dodge'. We see it a lot around here.

Say something stupid, the play it off like you didn't say something stupid. It works well in both internet forums and politics.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#178 - 2014-08-28 18:04:12 UTC
Harrison Tato wrote:
Back in the 80's you had to buy the game to get a manual.
Back in the 80's if a game had a manual it was either printed on the cassette case inlay or part of some god awful copy protection like lenslok.

Software piracy consisted of using your Dads tape to tape machine and trading the cassettes at school, otherwise known as sneakernet.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#179 - 2014-08-28 18:05:07 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Harrison Tato wrote:


I know. I have a hard time dealing with my own awesomeness most of the time! I thought it summed up the attitudes of many of the people who play EvE but don't get to ride in the FunVee.
\

Ah, the 'standard dodge'. We see it a lot around here.

Say something stupid, the play it off like you didn't say something stupid. It works well in both internet forums and politics.


We here at the Damien McCandless Institute of Behavioural Science call it "Salvosing"

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Tolkaz Khamsi
Empire Reclamation Services
#180 - 2014-08-28 18:05:51 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
What's your point, sportsfan?


One of them is that it's really easy to get a rise out of the SERIOUS BUSINESS players. As I have just proved.

Another is that there's a large gap between "making the game fun for noobs" on one hand, and "ZOMG EVE IS TURNING INTO WOW" on the other. It's not a binary choice.

This is an evergreen in Eve, though: the notion that making Eve more accessible to new players amounts to making it a themepark or "dumbing it down". I generally chalk it up to bittervet syndrome -- that since you had to grind up the hard way, new players should have to as well. That attitude makes no sense to me, but then I'm a player who gets a kick out of helping noobs out rather than ganking their T1 frigs at stargates.