These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
123Next page
 

PLEX - the best or worst thing to happen to EVE?

Author
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#1 - 2014-08-28 13:17:08 UTC
PLEX was a stroke of genius. Cashing in on the demand represented by a very real black market for in-game items, CCP decided to cut out the middle-man and offer PLEX. Now anyone with a spare few hundred/thousand bucks could buy their way into the sweetest ship and fittings they ever dreamed of.

This punched the black market in the gonads since now not only did they have to compete with CCP on price because PLEX could get you a lot of isk relatively cheaply - but also on security. Transactions on the black market were agains the TOS, your credit card data was put at risk of fraud, you had no idea who you were giving money to, and there was the continuing cloud over you that at any time CCP could just ban your account or freeze/confiscate your assets if your ISK seller got busted. CCP offered a clean, conscience-free and above all secure way to move a heck of a lot of ISK into your virtual wallet by giving them cash from your real wallet. What could possibly go wrong?

PLEX also helped stimulate the EVE economy. While it's true that PLEX does not create ISK that didn't already exist, people don't buy PLEX with the intention of hoarding that ISK. They buy PLEX with the intention of SPENDING. Therefore what PLEX did is use real cash to move ISK out of ISK stockpiles and back into the economy. It also had a second effect - that of moving stockpiles of minerals and materials out of someone's hoard and into the manufacturing of items and ships - for their eventual destruction. Because while mineral stockpiles did and do exist - what use to the economy is a few trillion units of tritatium that changes owners once in a while? Ahh, but turn all that tritanium into ships and not only do you get content but you get empty stockpiles and the demand for more mining, more resource gathering, and even more opportunities for content. What a wonderful idea PLEX was! What could possibly go wrong?

Well here is what has gone wrong.
Inflation aside - and any veteran who has been around more than a few years will agree there is REAL ISK inflation, the price of PLEX in ISK only goes up apart from very brief fluctuations - PLEX is probably the greatest enemy CCP currently has. I'll tell you why.

PLEX has only two uses in the game - first as a store of value, and second as a source of game time. As a store of value it is the "gold bullion" of the EVE universe. You want to keep parity with your ISK then convert it all to PLEX, leave, come back in 3 years and sell all your PLEX for ISK again and you'll have exactly the same value more or less. Those 8 billion you put in today for 10 PLEX will get you hey I don't know - for argument's sake 26 billion in 3 years when you sell them at 2.6B apiece which is what their market price will probably be. Oh the price of everything will have gone up by almost 3, but your money will have been "safe" and you won't have lost any value. This isn't really a problem.

PLEX is very very useful to the veteran player - the guy who has been playing a long time, who has the right connections, or who has a gift for this game. He knows where to get ISK. He knows which complexes and which anomalies to run. His losses are minimal. In a matter of hours, he can make the money required to pay for a PLEX and sub his account for another month. In a week he can easily replace any losses in modules and ships he may have suffered over the previous month. Wonderful. CCP rewards its best players for their dedication to the game and their skill by providing them with a "free to play" game - yes yes it's not 'free', someone else paid for the PLEX in cash, etc. The point is that crusty nullsec player can sub all his accounts by playing for under a week without paying a dime of real cash.

On the other hand there are less efficient EVE players who - because of the region they choose to live in, the friends or enemies they have or haven't made, their lack of skill, their unwillingness to "grind" the right way for isk, for whatever reason - be it personality, role play, personal likes and dislikes, etc. These people have to pay monthly to CCP in the form of a subscription.

So what is wrong here? Nothing. But this is where it gets interesting.

The veteran player is bored with EVE. He's spent the days he had to spend grinding, and now he is completely at a loss with what to do next. Nullsec is boring. The complaints about the blue doughnut are real complaints. Politics is a PITA. Getting a fleet together for a non official op is usually a PITA. Finding someone to fight who is not TOO big to fight (because face it, we are ALL risk averse - everyone wants to win) and is willing to fight is next to impossible. The rest consists of ganks that barely last long enough for you to get a lock on the target before he's blown away by the rest of the fleet. It gets old real fast.

So what happens? In the name of "content creation" and "lolz", groups of veteran, experienced players take off to other regions of the game to stomp all over weaker players. The high sec miner. Freighters carrying "too much loot" through high sec. Or nowadays just any freighter whether it has anything in it or not, ostensibly "for the tearz". Har har har! What fun!

Except - what is happening here? Veteran players who can pay for their experience of the EVE universe through easily (for them) acquired ISK are stomping on the play of newer or less dedicated players who pay their sub through cash.

What could possibly go wrong?

Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#2 - 2014-08-28 13:17:17 UTC
Think about it for a moment - take this thought to its logical conclusion. Eventually EVE will either run out of people willing to pay cash in order to play because face it, Joe Average is only going to shell out $15 so many times before he says screw it and moves on to some other game when he gets constantly ganked OR - Joe Average is going to learn to play properly, get good, get the right friends, move to the right area and WHAT? Become just like you - a non paying rent seeking risk averse ISK farmer who sits around complaining all day about the blue doughnut and how come no one fights anymore?

If CCP had exponential new account growth that would be fine. Few little acorns get to grow into trees. But CCP struggles to get new signings at the best of times. I think this current model is unsustainable and the reason behind it is- PLEX.

Not a rant nor YAEID (yet another EVE is dying) thread but rather posted for discussion.

Discuss.
Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3 - 2014-08-28 13:21:24 UTC
PLEX prices aren't going up with the general inflation rate, they're used as speculation stocks to drive prices up.
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2014-08-28 13:22:44 UTC
Please let this not be a Eve F2P thread.

Also: PLEX doesn't quite work like you think.
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2014-08-28 13:24:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Sibyyl
Ptraci wrote:

Those 8 billion you put in today for 10 PLEX will get you hey I don't know - for argument's sake 26 billion in 3 years when you sell them at 2.6B apiece which is what their market price will probably be. Oh the price of everything will have gone up by almost 3, but your money will have been "safe" and you won't have lost any value. This isn't really a problem.




No I'm sorry, EVE is dying.. and at this rate there won't be a Jita left to redeem anyone's PLEX stockpile. It's probably better if PLEX is sold immediately while CCP is still limping along.


Edit: Linking to dubba dubba dot dot eve-offline.gov for declining users data. Number of users hit negative numbers recently, so there were -122 players logged into TQ on average last 6 months.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.

TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#6 - 2014-08-28 13:25:03 UTC
Double edged sword. It dealt a serious blow to RMT profitability. But it also enabled everyone and their dog to have 50 accounts as long as you made enough money to PLEX them all.

We basically went from RMT botters to PLEX multibox fleets and I'm not entirely sure which one is worse.

My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!

My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums

Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#7 - 2014-08-28 13:26:22 UTC
Best!

No! Worst!

Oh Im so confused

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

Victor Andall
#8 - 2014-08-28 13:28:07 UTC
TigerXtrm wrote:
Double edged sword. It dealt a serious blow to RMT profitability. But it also enabled everyone and their dog to have 50 accounts as long as you made enough money to PLEX them all.

We basically went from RMT botters to PLEX multibox fleets and I'm not entirely sure which one is worse.


RMT botters. Next question.

I just undocked for the first time and someone challenged me to a duel. Wat do?

19.08.2014 - Dinsdale gets slammed by CCP Falcon. Never forget.

Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2014-08-28 13:29:09 UTC
TigerXtrm wrote:
Double edged sword. It dealt a serious blow to RMT profitability. But it also enabled everyone and their dog to have 50 accounts as long as you made enough money to PLEX them all.

We basically went from RMT botters to PLEX multibox fleets and I'm not entirely sure which one is worse.


Could you explain to me the difference between a single account earning ISK for 1 PLEX vs. 60 accounts earning ISK for 60 PLEX? I didn't realize that adding an account has an exponential effect on ISK earned.

Please clarify.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.

Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#10 - 2014-08-28 13:38:45 UTC
Not even the 2nd page and we're into multiboxing again, you guys are effective.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#11 - 2014-08-28 13:39:40 UTC
Neither.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#12 - 2014-08-28 13:40:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
[quote=Ptraci]

What could possibly go wrong?

[/quote


I've seen this insanity the entire time I've been in EVE. The idea that "if null wasn't so boring, the gankers would all be in null sec. It's as much a lie as the idea that 'gankers don't want real pvp, they just want to kill noobs'.

What this really is is 'carebear rationalization". The carebar can't understand why someone else would dare play differently than they would, so they make up self serving reasons (that of course show the honorable and noble carebear in the best light) why other players are so 'evil'.

"They live in their mom's basement and are 40 year old virgins"

"they are sociopaths who kill kittens in real life"

"the game is boring so they have nothing else to do but screw with me"

And on and on. They miss the real answer: Shooting things in a video game with guns is fun, winning is fun, and the tears of weak minded idiots who should have never downloaded a non-consensual pvp game in the 1st damn place are utterly delicious.

Well, that's the MAIN answer, the secondary answer is "EVE General Discussion".. I'm serious, this forum (and it's carebear whining) has probably produced many times more new gankers than "null sec is boring" ever had. I my self have come close to saying "**** it, Ima train an alt to use a Destroyer, because these carebears need a lesson" at least 5 times over the course of the years I've been here lol. I decided not to as it would interfere with whatever else I was doing, but DAMN do you types make it tempting.

It's carebear attitudes that turn people to the 'dark side', not null sec.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#13 - 2014-08-28 13:40:24 UTC
Adrie Atticus wrote:
Not even the 2nd page and we're into multiboxing again, you guys are effective.


They are multiboxing with their forum alts

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

Velicitia
XS Tech
#14 - 2014-08-28 13:50:16 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:
Ptraci wrote:

Those 8 billion you put in today for 10 PLEX will get you hey I don't know - for argument's sake 26 billion in 3 years when you sell them at 2.6B apiece which is what their market price will probably be. Oh the price of everything will have gone up by almost 3, but your money will have been "safe" and you won't have lost any value. This isn't really a problem.




No I'm sorry, EVE is dying.. and at this rate there won't be a Jita left to redeem anyone's PLEX stockpile. It's probably better if PLEX is sold immediately while CCP is still limping along.


Edit: Linking to dubba dubba dot dot eve-offline.gov for declining users data. Number of users hit negative numbers recently, so there were -122 players logged into TQ on average last 6 months.


TQ looks pretty healthy to me

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2014-08-28 13:55:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Grimpak
Sibyyl wrote:
TigerXtrm wrote:
Double edged sword. It dealt a serious blow to RMT profitability. But it also enabled everyone and their dog to have 50 accounts as long as you made enough money to PLEX them all.

We basically went from RMT botters to PLEX multibox fleets and I'm not entirely sure which one is worse.


Could you explain to me the difference between a single account earning ISK for 1 PLEX vs. 60 accounts earning ISK for 60 PLEX? I didn't realize that adding an account has an exponential effect on ISK earned.

Please clarify.



ok, first I'm going to do something so that those weak-minded fools know what the **** am I doing

/sarcasm ON

because everybody's so pure here.


and of course, sibyyl, it's 60 accounts in one guy! I mean, look at the ammount of isk being made there! it's insane! one people buying 60 plexes by himself, it must be some kind of cheat!


/sarcasm OFF


OH GODS I FELT MY BRAIN CELLS DYING THERE.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right

Derrick Miles
Death Rabbit Ky Oneida
#16 - 2014-08-28 14:01:24 UTC
You have good points in the beginning of your post, but it breaks down when you declare that the veterans playing for free are stomping on the weaker, paying customers. The kind of activity you describe, namely high-sec ganking, miner griefing, wardec trolling, etc., isn't aimed at any particular class of player and actually affects a broad range of people. The flaws you see in the game don't have any particular connection to PLEX at all, any relationship between them is tangential at best.

Also I should add that not everyone sees the same flaws where you do. Many enjoy high-sec ganking and griefing, in fact it's their entire game. And although it makes a huge inconvenience for other play-styles, it is nevertheless a part of the game world we all play in.
Tarpedo
Incursionista
#17 - 2014-08-28 14:02:56 UTC
Now whole direction of development of EVE is to force players to buy more PLEXes instead of making game more interesting.
Analeesa
Perkone
Caldari State
#18 - 2014-08-28 14:02:59 UTC
>PLEX
>bad

Yeah, sure.
Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#19 - 2014-08-28 14:05:19 UTC
Grimpak wrote:
Sibyyl wrote:
TigerXtrm wrote:
Double edged sword. It dealt a serious blow to RMT profitability. But it also enabled everyone and their dog to have 50 accounts as long as you made enough money to PLEX them all.

We basically went from RMT botters to PLEX multibox fleets and I'm not entirely sure which one is worse.


Could you explain to me the difference between a single account earning ISK for 1 PLEX vs. 60 accounts earning ISK for 60 PLEX? I didn't realize that adding an account has an exponential effect on ISK earned.

Please clarify.



ok, first I'm going to do something so that those weak-minded fools know what the **** am I doing

/sarcasm ON

because everybody's so pure here.


and of course, sibyyl, it's 60 accounts in one guy! I mean, look at the ammount of isk being made there! it's insane! one people buying 60 plexes by himself, it must be some kind of cheat!


/sarcasm OFF


OH GODS I FELT MY BRAIN CELLS DYING THERE.


You should make an alt called "Lurpak", no?

Because that post is smooth as, well, Lurpak.
Prince Kobol
#20 - 2014-08-28 14:05:40 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
Sibyyl wrote:
Ptraci wrote:

Those 8 billion you put in today for 10 PLEX will get you hey I don't know - for argument's sake 26 billion in 3 years when you sell them at 2.6B apiece which is what their market price will probably be. Oh the price of everything will have gone up by almost 3, but your money will have been "safe" and you won't have lost any value. This isn't really a problem.




No I'm sorry, EVE is dying.. and at this rate there won't be a Jita left to redeem anyone's PLEX stockpile. It's probably better if PLEX is sold immediately while CCP is still limping along.


Edit: Linking to dubba dubba dot dot eve-offline.gov for declining users data. Number of users hit negative numbers recently, so there were -122 players logged into TQ on average last 6 months.


TQ looks pretty healthy to me



You sure.. maybe you want to look at the graphs more closely.

I will give you hint.. All time weekly graph
123Next page