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Legion changes: A Christmas wishlist
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Barbie D0ll
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2011-12-10 05:10:27 UTC
My wish lists? make the lazer sub better than the zealot, and give it another low
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#22 - 2011-12-10 05:40:04 UTC
Shivus Tao wrote:
HAM legion needs to be better than a HAM tengu.


Noes.

Not until my hybrid sub become better than your laser sub witch would be has stupid has your legion being better with missiles than Tengu.
Silverdaddy
Ourapheh Holdings
#23 - 2011-12-10 18:54:41 UTC
A bit of a side topic, but I wanted to ask if anyone would care to share their legion incursion fits? I'm relatively new, and just want an idea of what to aim for...

The problem with slavery is that only half of the manacles are visible. The Holder, supposed master, is equally bound by the gilded chains of privilege and wealth.
Jojo Jackson
Dead Red Eye
#24 - 2011-12-10 19:10:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Jojo Jackson
IF you change the drone sub then remove this stupid anti-bonus of laser cap usage and give it a REAL bonus instead like RoF or Damage.

But NO remove!

It's the absolut best subsystem for complex and probing.
[Legion]
Damage Control II
2*Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer
Centum A-Type Medium Armor Repairer

Gistum A-Type 10MN Afterburner
Analyzer II
Codebreaker II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II

Sisters Core Probe Launcher, Sisters Core Scanner Probe I
Small Tractor Beam II
Salvager II
4*Heavy Beam Laser II, Gleam M

Medium Anti-Thermic Pump II
Medium Nanobot Accelerator II
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II

Legion Defensive - Nanobot Injector
Legion Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer
Legion Offensive - Drone Synthesis Projector
Legion Propulsion - Chassis Optimization
Legion Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir

Hammerhead II x5
Hobgoblin II x5
MORE DRONES

All you need, probe launcher, hacking, analyser, salavger, 464 DPS, 300+ defens, up to 62 opti, can do all complex equal if Ghurista, Angels or Sansash.

PS: as it is now with this NOT bonus of cap usage for lasers ... it is even better with Autocannons -> this is PUR FAIL in designe.

Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship!
Julia Connor
P R O M E T H E U S
From Anoikis
#25 - 2011-12-10 20:13:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Julia Connor
Jojo Jackson wrote:
IF you change the drone sub then remove this stupid anti-bonus of laser cap usage and give it a REAL bonus instead like RoF or Damage.

But NO remove!

It's the absolut best subsystem for complex and probing.
[Legion]
Damage Control II
2*Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer
Centum A-Type Medium Armor Repairer

Gistum A-Type 10MN Afterburner
Analyzer II
Codebreaker II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II

Sisters Core Probe Launcher, Sisters Core Scanner Probe I
Small Tractor Beam II
Salvager II
4*Heavy Beam Laser II, Gleam M

Medium Anti-Thermic Pump II
Medium Nanobot Accelerator II
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II

Legion Defensive - Nanobot Injector
Legion Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer
Legion Offensive - Drone Synthesis Projector
Legion Propulsion - Chassis Optimization
Legion Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir

Hammerhead II x5
Hobgoblin II x5
MORE DRONES

All you need, probe launcher, hacking, analyser, salavger, 464 DPS, 300+ defens, up to 62 opti, can do all complex equal if Ghurista, Angels or Sansash.

PS: as it is now with this NOT bonus of cap usage for lasers ... it is even better with Autocannons -> this is PUR FAIL in designe.


Wait a min, you'll actually use medium autocannons for PVE on a legion?
To the guy saying Ham legion should be better than Ham tengu 2/10. You tried but it wasn't good enough.
Jojo Jackson
Dead Red Eye
#26 - 2011-12-10 23:46:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Jojo Jackson
Julia Connor wrote:
Wait a min, you'll actually use medium autocannons for PVE on a legion?
To the guy saying Ham legion should be better than Ham tengu 2/10. You tried but it wasn't good enough.


When I'm in Ghurista or Angel space ... sure.
I know Crystals are cheeper, but you get the absolut same DPS with autocannons <-> pulse or a bit less DPS but higher Alpha with arti <-> beams when using the Drone sub. So why not use the advantage of right damage types?

PS: if you find a gas-cloude .. remove the Weapons and Weapon Mods ... and use Cargo Expander + Gas Havesters ;).

And it's a SHAME, that TECH 3 Amarr works equal well (or better in some cases) with our anemys weapons as it does with our mighty Lasers!

So you can add the Legion Drone offensive to
- Punisher
- Maller
- Prophecy
- TECH 3 .... god damit ... so much FAIL DESIGNE!

When whill CCP give this ships 25% more BASE CAP (recharge) and a REAL bonus instead ??

They did a damn good job with the change of the Apocalypse ... now they need to fix the other ships with this FAIL ANTI BONUS!

Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship!
Adeena Torcfist
Right Hand Of The Legion.
Get Off My Lawn
#27 - 2011-12-11 04:41:09 UTC
some things id like to see on the legion changed.
[
1. Ham's get some flight time bonus. i'd even be happier with 1 extra second flight time
2. Range on neuts, 5% would suffice for me.
3. Drone bay on some of these offensive subs....
4. agility looked at, all armor rigs slow it down, so adjusting that, will help compensate it a little.

these are just my ideas, & i'd like to see them implemented to be quite honest.
Korvus Falek
Depraved Corruption
#28 - 2011-12-11 05:40:58 UTC
Elindreal wrote:
comparing ham legion to ham tengu isnt completely a 1:1 comparison

i fly a ham tengu and with the range bonus on the subsys it's excellent at floating around the edge of point range, outside of web so it can keep up its transversal because otherwise a webbed tengu = a dead tengu

in comparison, a ham legion suffers a bit less dps and less range, however its tank is much better. it is essential a ham brawler, like the other khanid ships. due to the lack of a range bonus, it must orbit much tighter, but on the bright side it doesn't suffer from shield tank sig radius bloating.
as well, i personally figure the neut subsystem goes hand in hand with the ham subsys as medium neuts are just about the same range as the unbonus'd hams.

so now you have a close range neut/ham brawler, somewhat like the Vangel


This is how I fit my Legion. I wish more Amarr ships used missiles tbh, I <3 my Sacrilege.
YuuKnow
The Scope
#29 - 2011-12-11 21:54:24 UTC  |  Edited by: YuuKnow
I just wish that they would switch the graphics of the Dissolution Sequencer with the graphics of the Emergent Locus Analyzer. The Emergent Locus Analyzer is the subsystem that's most useful to me, but also the one that looks the ugliest! Sometimes I want to inquip the Dissolution Sequencer just for the cool look.

How about it devs?

Neut and lasers also is a a difficult combination, so how about changing the Energy Parasitic Complex bonus to "10% reduction in cap use for energy neutralizers per level" or "5% bonus to capictor capacity per level" instead.
Teras Lakkos
SuperMassive Torque
#30 - 2011-12-12 00:12:49 UTC
No matter the changes I think most people agree the legion is due for some love.
Aestivalis Saidrian
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#31 - 2011-12-12 03:04:30 UTC
YuuKnow wrote:
I just wish that they would switch the graphics of the Dissolution Sequencer with the graphics of the Emergent Locus Analyzer. The Emergent Locus Analyzer is the subsystem that's most useful to me, but also the one that looks the ugliest! Sometimes I want to inquip the Dissolution Sequencer just for the cool look.

How about it devs?

Neut and lasers also is a a difficult combination, so how about changing the Energy Parasitic Complex bonus to "10% reduction in cap use for energy neutralizers per level" or "5% bonus to capictor capacity per level" instead.


Nah, you use the Energy Parasitic Complex with HAMs or Nos + Lasers.
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
#32 - 2011-12-12 04:52:00 UTC
river Zateki wrote:
and the covert one made me cry. I got something like 200 dps with it....

Looks fine to me. What did you expect? Commit to risk just like a man and you will get proper DPS. That's the same whines Black Ops apologists spread around without realising the basics.

"Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.
Arazel Chainfire
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2011-12-12 05:33:19 UTC
Fon Revedhort wrote:
river Zateki wrote:
and the covert one made me cry. I got something like 200 dps with it....

Looks fine to me. What did you expect? Commit to risk just like a man and you will get proper DPS. That's the same whines Black Ops apologists spread around without realising the basics.

What we expect is it to be able to match, or at least come near the proteus, the loki, and the tengu covops subsystems. Namely, the legion does about 200dps (which btw is less than a curse using just medium drones...), while those other 3 have viable fits that do between 400 and 500dps. Without faction mods (except ammo).

Also, seriously, wtf? A cloaky (attempt to gank) legion fit that is interdiction nullified and tries to maximize its dps by fitting 5 guns had more mids then lows. Seriously? This is an AMARR ship we're talking about here... the resists are horrid for doing a shield tank, and thats not even counting CPU issues, or the bonuses that it gets to armor tanking/buffer. A cloaky proteus has more lowslots. While doing double the dps. And having more EHP. Now I'm not saying that the legion needs to blow all these other t3's out of the water at it, but seriously, this is downright BAD. About the only way that one of these would be accepted in a fleet is if someone decided to run a T3 only cloaky gank fleet and brought it to neut things. If they were smart they would bring a curse for the neuting instead.

-Arazel
Teras Lakkos
SuperMassive Torque
#34 - 2011-12-13 04:24:40 UTC
2 worthless and 2 "ok" offensive subs... check
no drone bay on non worthless offensive subs... check
(slightly?) lower dps than other t3 ships... check
war on legion low slots... check
deadspace armor reps much worse than deadspace shield reps.... check


ccp hates the legion.
Jojo Jackson
Dead Red Eye
#35 - 2011-12-13 05:28:06 UTC
Teras Lakkos wrote:
2 worthless and 2 "ok" offensive subs... check

True, Turret and Cloack subs are worthless as Turrets without even 25m³ dronebay is just stupid.

Assault sub is cool, Drone sub need a REAL bonus instead of this gimp 10% cap usage ****.

Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship!
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#36 - 2011-12-13 05:58:27 UTC
I see lots of people saying that the Legion is pretty good. I see nobody saying why or providing fits that they believe to be competitive.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Teras Lakkos
SuperMassive Torque
#37 - 2011-12-13 22:31:10 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
I see lots of people saying that the Legion is pretty good. I see nobody saying why or providing fits that they believe to be competitive.

-Liang


It doesn't use ammo in wormholes, only major use of the legion.

Wanting drones and useful offensive subs is part of the problem, but the FUNDAMENTAL problem with the legion is the slot allocation by subsystems. Despite what ccp seems to think, amarr boats need maximum low slots. The legion can fit up to 7 low slots. Pretty good right? Wait a second lets look at the subsystem options.

Assuming fitting for max low slots (7): the legion has 4 subsystem categories that can take away a low slot (there are only 5 categories Ugh)
How does this compare?
Proteus (7 max lows ): 2 categories can take away a low
Loki (6 max lows): 3 categories can take away a low (It is suppose to be able to field a shield tank!)
Tengu: who cares it shield tanks

But wait there's more.
Proteus can field max lows and 6 guns
Loki can field max lows and 6 guns
Legion can't field max lows and 6 guns Roll


Dear CCP: fix my legion.
Adeena Torcfist
Right Hand Of The Legion.
Get Off My Lawn
#38 - 2011-12-14 01:21:53 UTC
on my fits, i have 1 too many low slots & 1 too few mid slots.

i want to swop my low slot for a mid slot plz.

but seriously, it need an overhaul.

im quite distgusted how no developers have popped in, & said we are aware of the issue with the legion, that it is sub par. We will look into it.

Silence speaks a thousand words to me..... Sad
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#39 - 2011-12-14 01:28:52 UTC
Adeena Torcfist wrote:
on my fits, i have 1 too many low slots & 1 too few mid slots.

i want to swop my low slot for a mid slot plz.

but seriously, it need an overhaul.

im quite distgusted how no developers have popped in, & said we are aware of the issue with the legion, that it is sub par. We will look into it.

Silence speaks a thousand words to me..... Sad


Come on now - lets be realistic. The melodramatic QQ of how you can't believe a dev hasn't popped in to post an agreement with you over a 2 page thread in Ships & Modules is way, way, way over the top and out of line. That's the kind of petulant whining I'd expect to see in the WOW or Rift forums - not Eve Online.

Seriously, it needs help but its not catastrophically broken and nor does it somehow invalidate 25% of the characters in the game. If I don't like the Legion I'll fly a Tengu or a Proteus or a Loki or a ******* Armageddon. Save the QQ for something that deserves it.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Teras Lakkos
SuperMassive Torque
#40 - 2011-12-14 22:27:48 UTC
You can fit a legion that only has 3 lows (4 not including the interdiction sub).

Broken.

In all seriousness, if you actually want at least 6 lows you cant fit alot of the subsystems. Either you cherry pick for lows or pay the consequences. Whereas a proteus can pick from the 4 sub options in most cases without sacrificing low slots.

my guess is that CCP is trying to get the legion to emulate the recon ships and the sacrilege (ie small number of lows). Guess what this does for a ship that cant actually emulate these ships well but suffers the low slot axe anyways?

Idea