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All join gal mil?

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Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#101 - 2014-08-26 20:52:32 UTC
Rahelis wrote:
FW never was null sex light - no nulbear ally would ever be able to hold sov on more than maybe 20 systems if it sov would be like FW.

Imagine station lockouts in null sex - all the nullbears would unsub in fear.

FW attack on null - why destroyers, cerar? My old corp alone could field about 12 caps with 3 or 4 players. In the past there were tons of caps in FW - in the age of BC and BS fights. Every simgle campaign against home systems was cap based - try to move war POSs, fuel and some 500 ships . . .


CCP - in their wisdom - made FW not null sex light but home for newbees - that was the idea behind the age of farming alts.

With FW utterly broken - I do not care.

There is so much more to play in EVE.

Btw, my old corp only attacked huola out of sheer boredom - the lads had the said intention to quit EVE after the campaign - because it is clear that CCP will not fix anything - they simply do not care for FW.

The huola campaign was lost when gals lead and defended huola - without them gals huola would have fell in the end of the first week. Them gals even equipped the minnies with ships - the minnie only had farming ships in huola.


I got some 9 bil only from some stuff some ppl quitting gave me, Crosi. That was only small change.

What do you think do ppl in FW earn in ISK - when they fly dual box high grade slaves in frigs and dessies?



Calm down there rehelis, the war is over, you can stop the PR spin. The truth is out and you lost.

Also, dull sec has station lockouts.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#102 - 2014-08-26 22:27:51 UTC
Yuri Antollare wrote:


Your Huola observation is a good example, I was on for that period more than the average, forgive me if I'm wrong but I remember you being in local for a handful of hours towards the last couple of days. Burn Huola was a two week affair to begin with. My timezone (+/- 2/3 hours of DT) was the period where Min/Gal was the most outnumbered, have a look at my killboard, one evening I lost 15 ships in two hours. So you have to understand when a lot of people read your anecdotal viewpoint, blown out to encompass a two week OP, they simply sit there in stunned silence. I will agree however, Amarr suffered horribly from the 'outnumbered so dock' schtick and in my opinion was the number one reason they lost. Again, http://evf-eve.com/services/brcat/ allows a more holistic picture (including a timeline.)


I took a few days off from work for that. What happened was no surprise. It the same that happens every time the fighting is confined to a single system. When you can't match the numbers you dock/pos up. Gallente/minmatar did that just as much and just as surely as amarr/caldari. Amarr/Caldari just didn’t have the numbers to hold long enough to get that magical net of 3000 vp.

Sure there were times when it was unclear who had the upper hand and fights were had and it was great. Sometimes they went our way sometimes yours. But most of the 2 week time numerical superiority was established by one side or the other. When I was online we often had the numbers. You know what happened then? Minmatar/Gallente stayed docked and we sat in plexes shooting nothing but rats for the extended periods of time to bring the system contestation level up.

Your claim that amarr lost the war because they did not throw free kills at the Gallente/minmatar when we were outnumbered is silly. Gallente and minmatar would stay docked when they had fewer numbers as well. If you want to blame our refusal to give free kills for our loss then minmatar and gallente should have lost as well. Anyone who understands eve or faction war in the least knows that if Amarr really had more firepower for the time necessary to flip the system then it would have become vulnerable. Your not fooling anyone but the new guys.

OK its true that really bad pvpers can still lose even though they have an overwhelming firepower advantage. But that wasn't the case here. The side that established they had the firepower advantage in that system would sit in plexes for extended periods of time. The fights happened when the firepower advantages changed. But gallente/and minmatar never repeatedly gave us free kills any more than Amarr/Caldari gave them to you.

Oh and claiming your fought outnumbered based on some killboard report is ridiculous. FCs don't decide if they are outnumbered based on how many people entered and fought in the system over the last week or even 1 hour before. They look at what they have in fleet right now, (and often even have to open a new fleet to see if the people are even really there!) and then they look at what is in the plex right now. They may have had a huge fleet 1 hour before but that won't mean they will have better chances in a fight in a plex now.

Second Amarr/caldari may have outnumbered minmatar/gallente 150 to 50 for 12 hours. But then if minmatar outnumber amarr 30 to 10 for the next 12 hours all the gains will be lost. What does the battle report show for the day? Amarr/caldari: 160 minmatar/gallente: 80. What is the significance of these numbers? 0
This is basic eveonline pvp so really stop pretending the silly battle reports show anything.

That’s what I mean about gallente kool-aid versus what I saw with my own eyes. I saw with my own eyes lots of gallente in system and even some flying around but they did not actually try to challenge the plex when we had the numbers. We just sat capturing plex after plex unopposed.

You can claim you were fighting outnumbered all you want - but you didn't do that when I was there. I may not have been there the whole time you were, but I was there allot of the time. Fighting larger blobs just feeds the enemy and boosts their morale. The strategy for both sides when they were outnumbered was to sit it out and let the other sides numbers start to drop from boredom/other obligations.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#103 - 2014-08-26 22:28:40 UTC
Yuri Antollare wrote:

Another example is your fascination with all VP being equal. So what if someone caps 100 plexes? 100 plexes in Kinakka or 100 plexes in Martoh? Does total VP count offer a more illuminating picture on this or don't you care? As others have said, offensive plexing alts (that don't even exist in the most recent iteration) did not take Kinakka, Okkamon, Asakai, Heyd etc. and defensive plexing alts did not keep Sarenemi, Mantenault, Alamel and Raihbaka under control in the backwaters against Calmill PvP entities.

It’s odd that you would even try to deny how important rabbit plexing alts are.
My fascination with vp has to do with the actual game mechanics as opposed to some imagined magical goal. If you net 3000 more vp in a system than the enemy controlling party it becomes vulnerable. Until it is vulnerable it cannot be taken. So whether the alts are defensive plexing to keep the net number of vp below 3000 or alts offensive plexing to get the net at or above 3000 they have just as much of an impact as a pvper who does the same.

Your deplexing alts were huge in the efforts to capture all systems. I had some alts offensive plexing in some of your systems. (so as for your claim they don’t exist well, I will believe my own eyes) and each time I would get the system contested level up and the next day it would drop again. Without plexing alts you guys would not have enough systems to get past tier 2 let alone hit tier 4. The rabbit alts from the caldari and amarr would overwhelm all but a few systems. It’s the way the occupancy game is won and it always has been. See posts by ank if you don’t believe me.




Yuri Antollare wrote:

But of course without seeing the intel about who is doing what where, and how we responded, how could you know? You must admit the arrogance is slightly breathtaking that you think one metric will give you a brilliant understanding of anything.


There is no arrogance in understanding the mechanic that reaching a net of +3000 vp in a system will make it vulnerable. If you don’t reach that net net of +3000 vp it will remain invulnerable. It doesn’t matter whether you are kept under the net 3000 because you kept losing pvp fights or because everytime you log off for the day someone elses alt comes in and deplexes it. It remains invulnerable.

There is nothing arrogant in understanding that if you only have 3 systems you will not be able to reach tier 2. These are the actual game mechanics. They are facts not arrogant opinions.

There is no arrogance in seeing with my own eyes how many enemies are on scan in a plex and how many people are in fleet and what they are saying they can bring. This metric will decide whether a competent fc will fight or not. If you claim gallente use some other metric it is amazing that it always seems to fit this metric when I see them in local – unless they are new.

Much of what you gallente spew is magic talk. Despite their talk gallente worked no magic in huola. They generally won about as many fights as would be expected given the relative fire power of each side. Based on the number of alt d-plexing rabbits they have in the warzone taking the entire front is not surprising either.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#104 - 2014-08-26 22:29:29 UTC
Yuri Antollare wrote:

You decry FW as being null sec lite and in the same post complain that some random out in the backwater is able to farm unless you put in effort to stop him.


I call it “null sec junior”, not “null sec lite.” Its junior because the fights involve at best 200 destroyers instead of 2000 battleships and caps.
But its not null sec lite because the actual game play is in no way more casual. Creating alts to defensive plex is not for casual gamers. It’s boring and only hard core eve addicts will bother with it for very long before deciding other things should occupy their time. Gallente are hard core and in fact I think many of them should take their hardcore attitudes to null sec where they belong. Leave fw for people who like a game with action and fun pvp. Not grinds with alts and blobs.
If you are sitting in a system outnumbered 10 to 30 your options are no different than if you are in a system outnumbered 300 to 900. If you are against pvpers who can fog a mirror you are still just going to sit it out instead of giving free kills. So Faction war occupancy is shaping up to have all the calories of null sec but lacks the flavor of high stakes, huge battles.

It is a problem that the fighting is becoming focused on one or 2 systems. Everyone get to huola! If you can’t get a blob big enough then you will just be giving free kills there. If you go a few systems over you will find no fun pvp and can expect to have your plexing work undone by d-plexing alts after you log off.



Yuri Antollare wrote:

If you don't live in a system, or actively patrol it then why shouldn't some dude profit off the area? Why would you prefer to effectively increase force projection in FW by allowing one corp to hold sway over entire regions with for instance timer rollbacks?


The only way they would hold sway over entire regions is if they had pvpers spread out over those regions fighting in plexing. That is how it should be. They shouldn’t have sway because they have 3xs the number of rabbit alts that will swoop in as soon as the pvpers leave.
Yuri Antollare wrote:

Right now the corp I am in 'controls' about 6-7 systems in our area, our activity level is high enough that bot runners and afk plexers long since stopped sending their ships here, a good 90% of the people in plexes in our area lead to PVP. How is this not what we want? Do I have a right to complain that 12 jumps away some dude is making billions of isk, how do I own that area if we're not there long enough to deter him?

But your militia controls all of the caldari gallente front. It’s easy to claim you control those 6-7 systems but it’s really the larger gallente militia that controls them. If the rest of the militia switched sides to caldari you wouldn’t control them. Why? Because your fc would look in a plex and see 50 people there and see that you only have 10 in fleet. Regardless of whether your fc would suicide your fleet you would lose those systems one after another. And then when you tried to oplex you would find that alts come in and dplex when you are not there and if you still manage to chase them like a fool and build the contested level, eventually the blob will come back and undue your work.
Yuri Antollare wrote:

You need to stop looking in from the outside, and actually get to a position where you can see how it works in a functioning militia, Gallente get it, we have major home systems spread around the WZ, leaving few areas out of reship distance or control range, but you don't even factor something as basic as where pvpers live in you analysis of how a WZ is controlled or falls. The only thing you consistently prove to people involved in FW is how far removed you really are from the actual game, less spreadsheets and more playing.


I think you need stop believing the gallente are magic talk and start understanding the actual mechanics. You will then have a better understanding of the game. BTW I am not anti gallente. When the gallente lost the war it was not due to some brilliant caldari plan.

Gallente want to claim what they did involves some brilliant strategy. But really those strategies are mundane. Plus they don’t work unless you keep deplexing in the empty frigates that I see warping off throughout the war zone. Yes I see them with my own eyes and I see how many vp they get on the api dump with my own eyes. You telling me “never mind those alts they don’t effect a thing” is not going to work. I am going to believe my own eyes.

Getting as many players as you can in a single system to try to outblob the other side is not a brilliant strategy either. It works under the current mechanics but it’s not brilliant. It only works when you can get the blob in a single system for long enough to get that net 3000vp. Gallente can do that. That’s fine. But it’s nothing magic or brilliant. It’s null sec junior.

If on the other hand each plex was to be fought over because players knew were the timers were running and tried to assign pilot to different systems rationally (as opposed to always saying “everyone form up in system ______”) then we would see some interesting strategies. Strategies that are different than dull sec blob formation for the win.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#105 - 2014-08-26 23:27:48 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Because your fc would look in a plex and see 50 people there and see that you only have 10 in fleet. Regardless of whether your fc would suicide your fleet you would lose those systems one after another.


You do know who you are talking to right? Those guys held the line against one of the games largest alliances for months.
Rinai Vero
Blades of Liberty
#106 - 2014-08-26 23:41:39 UTC
Ya, fighting against superior numbers never works. That's why TEST conquered Eha then went on to successfully sweep the warzone while they were in the State Protectorate.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#107 - 2014-08-27 00:18:56 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
Cearain wrote:
Much of what you gallente spew is magic talk.
Don't hate us because we're better than you.

Cearain wrote:
I took a few days off from work for that.
Really? You took MULTIPLE days off from work for a video game?

And still lost?
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#108 - 2014-08-27 00:22:28 UTC
Rinai Vero wrote:
Ya, fighting against superior numbers never works. That's why TEST conquered Eha then went on to successfully sweep the warzone while they were in the State Protectorate.
TEST would have never been able to do what they did if they didn't have the entire Caldari militia on their side as well.

It was a bit embarrassing living out of Aeschee for all those months, but you know what we did? We ran Sisters of Eve missions until the Caldari left Eha out of boredom. Then our alts plexed it up and we moved back.
Rinai Vero
Blades of Liberty
#109 - 2014-08-27 00:51:39 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Rinai Vero wrote:
Ya, fighting against superior numbers never works. That's why TEST conquered Eha then went on to successfully sweep the warzone while they were in the State Protectorate.
TEST would have never been able to do what they did if they didn't have the entire Caldari militia on their side as well.

It was a bit embarrassing living out of Aeschee for all those months, but you know what we did? We ran Sisters of Eve missions until the Caldari left Eha out of boredom. Then our alts plexed it up and we moved back.


Not really that big of a deal though. I just spent the whole time running Squid missions in my stealth bomber.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#110 - 2014-08-27 01:47:14 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Because your fc would look in a plex and see 50 people there and see that you only have 10 in fleet. Regardless of whether your fc would suicide your fleet you would lose those systems one after another.


You do know who you are talking to right? Those guys held the line against one of the games largest alliances for months.


A single corp I was in farmed test, before they failscaded. We had the luxury of basing out of the same low sec station as them. It was mostly easy kills because they never could figure out the most basic low sec mechanics of how to dock and undock (and I didn't really participate much myself).

http://archive.evenews24.com/2012/02/08/test-a-different-kind-of-alliance/

It's surprising they could even find their way to the right low sec region to find a plex.



I scan through both gallente and test postings of the time. The bottom line from what I read was test played the mechanics and did not enter the gallente fantasy world where faction war is all about "home systems." They steamrolled gallente to hit their goal of tier 4 to farm lp and left. Gallente kept saying they didnt' want that system anyway, nor that one, or that one. And then gallente claimed to "win" because they managed to hold a handfull of systems that test never needed to hit tier 4 anyway. \o/

But yeah drink the gallente koolaid and you will get the idea that test entered some home syste with 2000 players and 4 gallente fought them off in atrons. Whatever revision history you want.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#111 - 2014-08-27 01:58:20 UTC
Cearain wrote:

But yeah drink the gallente koolaid and you will get the idea that test entered some home syste with 2000 players and 4 gallente fought them off in atrons. Whatever revision history you want.
Scoreboard: Gallente 2, Cearain 0.

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#112 - 2014-08-27 02:34:47 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:

But yeah drink the gallente koolaid and you will get the idea that test entered some home syste with 2000 players and 4 gallente fought them off in atrons. Whatever revision history you want.
Scoreboard: Gallente 2, Cearain 0.



You think so little of the gallente militia that you pit them all against one character and keep score?

I admit I can not beat the entire gallente militia alone but the way some of them blob I think many would consider it a good fight.

But anyway we were talking about how 4 gallente in atrons fought off 2000 test pilots and how your most recent sweep of warzone had nothing to do with alts rabbit plexing.

You should get back to that since it sounds more impressive than an entire militia beating a single character.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#113 - 2014-08-27 02:42:43 UTC
Cearain wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:

But yeah drink the gallente koolaid and you will get the idea that test entered some home syste with 2000 players and 4 gallente fought them off in atrons. Whatever revision history you want.
Scoreboard: Gallente 2, Cearain 0.

I admit I can not beat the entire gallente militia alone but the way some of them blob I think many would consider it a good fight.
Don't be so mad. At least you didn't take any days off work to try to stop us this time.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#114 - 2014-08-27 03:08:42 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:

But yeah drink the gallente koolaid and you will get the idea that test entered some home syste with 2000 players and 4 gallente fought them off in atrons. Whatever revision history you want.
Scoreboard: Gallente 2, Cearain 0.

I admit I can not beat the entire gallente militia alone but the way some of them blob I think many would consider it a good fight.
Don't be so mad. At least you didn't take any days off work to try to stop us this time.


Yeah this gallente campaign was not likely to be much more exciting than huola so I didn't bother taking off work - or even logging in. I think I called that right. But you can still count it as a win against me if it makes you feel better about yourself.

But before we move off of test I have a question for you. Are you upset that test and caldari steamrolled to tier 4 and never needed your "home systems"?

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Yuri Antollare
Moira.
#115 - 2014-08-27 04:37:00 UTC
It seems the point went over your head slightly. Yes it takes 3000 VP, again, where is this VP scored and what is its impact? Is VP scored in Alamel the same as VP scored in Innia when it was a calmill home system? You say that gallente deplexing alts kept the backwaters down as we went for a medal, yet I'm there moving corp ships to the systems in question and scoring 10 kills a night against pvp fit squids, so understand how I think you are a little silly. Lest we even mention the 0 impact alts had on pushing defended calmill systems.

Was someone able to send an unfit derptron at some point of the day to deplexe freely in a system that Calmill needed to survive? Almost certainly... and?? Again if there is not enough Calmill resistance to push out an unfit atron then who are they or you to complain? Would you feel better if it was a pvp fit gallente pilot plexing against no resistance? If so why? No one's there to shoot him anyway, aka the caldari strategic decision doomed them in either scenario, the fact it can be achieved with an unfit ship is a symptom, not a cause.

Your Huola analysis is consistently bewildering, just remember, this forum is filled with people who were actually there and won't be relying on this forum post to know what they saw. The vast majority of galmill plex doctrines are designed around the singular purpose of fighting outnumbered and being able to treat the campaign as a game of inches when we have to. Derptrons are designed to cost so little they can be used in an attrition format, the long range kestrels are designed to give 5-6 people a chance in novices against 20-30 man gangs, breacher coraxes are again, designed to pack the most punch for tank/isk and swing the casualty rates. These are fits that have been used as intended since the closing days of Evoke, let alone TEST.

For me to believe what you seem to think happened in Huola, would require me to assume that Galmill all of a sudden stopped fighting in the manner that we always do and that our logistics demand. When you are also the guy selling derptrons, periodically logging into UStz, and being heavily involved in AU/early EU, your opinion becomes even harder to believe because I was actually there.

Quips like "if they have 30 and u have 10 no one warps in" reveal your lack of understanding of the deeper strategies at play. No we don't warp into your occupied plex, we go open the novice with 5 dudes and sit there till you warp over to push us out, then we warp to the plex you just left and kill the poor sod you (by 'you' I mean others actually engaged in strategy) left behind. One has to only look at the fits and doctrines Amarr use (in comparison to us) to realize they were never structured to fight that way, you kill two derptrons and we kill your 9mill inquisitor, ad infinitum. Your inability to fight for a minute here or there or inflict losses during 'bad' times for you stood in stark contrast to our ability to slow you and still inflict losses even when we had four people in fleet.

As to the TEST goals, its a sandbox so we can't deny them a victory if they wish to define it as reaching T4, tbh though under the system as was then, that wouldn't be much of a goal as it would be fairly inevitable given their size. You may say we moved the goalposts but the truth is our metric is always our homesystems as when the pendulum swung hardest in the past it was the only thing people could hold on to as an accomplishment. But the assertion that TEST didnt want to take Eha or continue crushing galmill home systems from there is patently ludicrous to anyone with passing familiarity of the conflict. Not only did they say as much in their first leaked meetings, but I was there for month after month of the sperging in local about exactly what their intentions were.

Perhaps others such as your esteemed Amarr could have also held them off, but since we've beat both you and them, forgive us for not really caring either way.


P.S The kool-aid references would work better if minnies/gals lost Huola, if the georgetown residents had actually ascended to heaven then we would have been the idiots. It is not gallente kool-aid when we are helping you understand why you lost and we won, people 'drink the koolaid' when they make up **** for why THEY lost. Aka your side of the encounter.
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#116 - 2014-08-27 04:50:51 UTC
I for one welcome the price reductions in Navy Comets, Vexors, and Exeqs, made possible by this stunning military victory. I can only hope CCP adjusts FW missions so FDU can run them solo in stealth bombers at last, so I can enjoy further reductions on these excellent hulls.

I think making these hulls more accessible to the oppressed, the downtrodden, and the common man is the real victory here for Freedom, and for that I salute you all in the FDU.

Kurilaivonen|Concern
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#117 - 2014-08-27 05:01:21 UTC
Walls of text decrying how defensive plexing alts win FW. First it was offensive plexing alts, now defensive plexing alts. You look for any excuse to try and belittle the efforts of actual pilots who took the time and effort to flip systems and take full warzone control. Probably because you couldn't do it yourself. Last I checked it actually takes people offensive plexing to flip a system. You want to prove your theories? Then do it. Get your own friends/allies and army of de-plex alts, then come on over to the Gallente warzone and take our systems. Stop shiptoasting on the forums and actually do something.

TL:DR: Plexing alts don't flip systems.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#118 - 2014-08-27 05:13:53 UTC
Cearain wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:

But yeah drink the gallente koolaid and you will get the idea that test entered some home syste with 2000 players and 4 gallente fought them off in atrons. Whatever revision history you want.
Scoreboard: Gallente 2, Cearain 0.

I admit I can not beat the entire gallente militia alone but the way some of them blob I think many would consider it a good fight.
Don't be so mad. At least you didn't take any days off work to try to stop us this time.


Yeah this gallente campaign was not likely to be much more exciting than huola so I didn't bother taking off work - or even logging in. I think I called that right. But you can still count it as a win against me if it makes you feel better about yourself.
It was actually pretty damn exciting. Thousands of kills over 2 weeks. Lots of death and carnage. And yes, I'll take the win over players who decide to quit and not show up for the fight. Win is win.

Rahelis
Doomheim
#119 - 2014-08-27 07:42:05 UTC
Plexing alts are the major power in CCP FW.

Crosi - station lockouts in NPC null sex? In never heard of that.

But lets us face the facts.

Gals won FW.
Veronica Isagar
Black Fox Marauders
Pen Is Out
#120 - 2014-08-27 08:26:20 UTC
Rahelis wrote:
Plexing alts are the major power in CCP FW.



But lets us face the facts.

Gals won FW.


I'm just curious, when was the last time you ran a plex, in FW.

And since the mechanic change, alts don't normally o-plex, mite de-plex, if anything, and the people who did de-plex key systems far as I know were all main's. mite have 1 or 2 alts in the mix, but all mains.

We (as in Gallente Federation) took the warzone, we provided content, we proven our logistical capabilities, we were ready to fight when the fight was there. We stood our watch.
But what I can't get over is the amount of text that is written just in an attempt to prove or disprove a point, you ever heard of K.I.S.S.? You really mite want to look it up one day, as you clearly have a lot time on your hands to write full essays and novels while you operate in null-sec, by the way hows them deadly asteroids working out for ya, and there friends, the red crosses??
I'm sure someone will quote this statement and write out another chapter, or two, just to say something. Like I said K.I.S.S. its such a wonderful thing.

Enjoy

BLACK FOX is RECRUITING