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[Hyperion Feedback Thread] Mass-Based Spawn Distance After WH Jumps

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Author
Lenroc Elisav
Lenny'S TAX evasion 101
#1481 - 2014-08-26 17:33:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Lenroc Elisav
Durzel wrote:
Van Steiza wrote:
Durzel wrote:




If you can't support a capital that is likely to be at most around 5-10km in jump range then you shouldn't be jumping it in at all.


What are you smoking have you even tested this? A phoenix on average will be 15km from the hole plus or minus a couple of km with a minimum of 12 as I have tested this myself today multiple times with different dreads carriers etc.

Nonsense .

edit: People talking about cynos throwing ships 10km+ out from the cyno are completely disregarding the fact that if you jump to a cyno in a cap where are you going to go from there if you get tackled? You can't jump back out like you can if you're sat on a wormhole, you can't even use a gate. Don't conflate the two completely different paradigms.


M8, you have no clue, have you? We don't have local, we always scout, and map chains, we know the players and the big corps. Everybody that wants some success inside WH knows that intel is our primary defense. If two big corps find each-other they will fight, if a small one gets connected to a big one they will get in contact and either get permission to roll or log off and force the big corp to roll. This change will get some caps ganked , maybe, but it won't be a conflict driver, it will only slow down life, make content creation harder and screw with how we use caps on the offensive (but you wouldn't know that).

A cap in null that is tackled can go to another cyno when it loses tackle Roll, a cap in WH won't go anywhere. Yeah, sure he may warp but he won't escape.

P.S. The fact that some pansy arses don't want to commit forces in order to grab a capital it doesn't mean rolling is risk free as it is now (I mean used to be). Now it's risky for both parties (I mean it used to be) compared with being risky just for the cap pilot.
Jezza McWaffle
Holey Roamin' Empire
TURBOFEED OR GLORY
#1482 - 2014-08-26 17:57:14 UTC
Star Citizen is now so much more attractive.

Wormholes worst badass | Checkout my Wormhole blog

CCP Falcon
#1483 - 2014-08-26 18:02:06 UTC
It seems like things have gotten a bit out of hand in this thread.

I can fully appreciated that some of you are unhappy with the changes that have gone out.

If you feel strongly about these changes, then give civil and concise feedback in the Hyperion feedback thread, and I'll point the development team in that direction.

Please don't make personal attacks on eachother, or employees of CCP, otherwise you'll lose the ability to post on the forums, and neither us nor you want it to come to that.

While you may see our development staff as avatars on a forum, please be aware that there are in fact people behind these faces, and abuse of CCP and our volunteers will not be tolerated.

CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon

Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3

Nolak Ataru
Singularity Expedition Services
Singularity Syndicate
#1484 - 2014-08-26 18:07:02 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
It seems like things have gotten a bit out of hand in this thread.


No ****. If you had a store that promised people there'd be a 2-for-1 sale tomorrow, and then it didn't happen, they'd get pissed.

CCP Falcon wrote:
I can fully appreciated that some of you are unhappy with the changes that have gone out.


Bullshit.

CCP Falcon wrote:
If you feel strongly about these changes, then give civil and concise feedback in the Hyperion feedback thread, and I'll point the development team in that direction.


So you're confirming this thread was 100% pointless and that CCP took zero time reading it or any of the arguments.

CCP Falcon wrote:
Please don't make personal attacks on eachother, or employees of CCP, otherwise you'll lose the ability to post on the forums, and neither us nor you want it to come to that.


Then LISTEN TO YOUR USERBASE.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#1485 - 2014-08-26 18:15:22 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
It seems like things have gotten a bit out of hand in this thread.

I can fully appreciated that some of you are unhappy with the changes that have gone out.

If you feel strongly about these changes, then give civil and concise feedback in the Hyperion feedback thread, and I'll point the development team in that direction.

Please don't make personal attacks on eachother, or employees of CCP, otherwise you'll lose the ability to post on the forums, and neither us nor you want it to come to that.

While you may see our development staff as avatars on a forum, please be aware that there are in fact people behind these faces, and abuse of CCP and our volunteers will not be tolerated.



I'm not sure you want that thread spammed with basically duplicates of all the same arguments that have gone on in this thread, none the least it would potentially obscure other issues.

There was plenty of time to address the concerns with this mechanic here.
Steven Hackett
NOMADS.
#1486 - 2014-08-26 18:18:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Steven Hackett
CCP Falcon wrote:
It seems like things have gotten a bit out of hand in this thread.

I can fully appreciated that some of you are unhappy with the changes that have gone out.

If you feel strongly about these changes, then give civil and concise feedback in the Hyperion feedback thread, and I'll point the development team in that direction.

Please don't make personal attacks on eachother, or employees of CCP, otherwise you'll lose the ability to post on the forums, and neither us nor you want it to come to that.

While you may see our development staff as avatars on a forum, please be aware that there are in fact people behind these faces, and abuse of CCP and our volunteers will not be tolerated.


Maybe if the CCP staff didn't lie, cheat and figurativly give the entire W-space community the middle finger. Then we could talk about being nice to each other.. Fact is, that as long as CCP employes treat the community the way Hilmar publicly apologized for doing, then how can we trust you? If we can't trust Hilmar then who at CCP can we trust? Our CSM is just a marketing toy for CCP to give us the sense of having something to say, while in fact we are just along for the ride. Nothing we do matters, your Dev made that very clear thanks.

Amazing that CCP is more concerned about 1 case of SOMER/RMT than they are about an entire community raging, yelling, quitting etc. How much response have we had here? 5 posts? and a vauge townhall where the Dev didn't do anything but show us a fat middle finger?

So please.. When you talk about respect, try to look in your own ranks.. Respect is earned, and it isn't earned by lying and disrespecting the community. This is why I petitioned the community team a long time ago, to get you in here and stop the madness, but you were silent..

You (red. CCP) choose to **** on the desk.. Please be respectfull enough to not complain about the smell and clean it up yourself. Thank You.

Ps. Asking for constructive feedback? Are you trolling us? Havn't you just proved that giving feedback is pointless cause you don't give a **** anyway?
Scarlet Nobleonce
D4RK M00N
X.VOID.X
#1487 - 2014-08-26 18:33:32 UTC
Steven Hackett wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
It seems like things have gotten a bit out of hand in this thread.

I can fully appreciated that some of you are unhappy with the changes that have gone out.

If you feel strongly about these changes, then give civil and concise feedback in the Hyperion feedback thread, and I'll point the development team in that direction.

Please don't make personal attacks on eachother, or employees of CCP, otherwise you'll lose the ability to post on the forums, and neither us nor you want it to come to that.

While you may see our development staff as avatars on a forum, please be aware that there are in fact people behind these faces, and abuse of CCP and our volunteers will not be tolerated.


Maybe if the CCP staff didn't lie, cheat and figurativly give the entire W-space community the middle finger. Then we could talk about being nice to each other.. Fact is, that as long as CCP employes treat the community the way Hilmar publicly apologized for doing, then how can we trust you? If we can't trust Hilmar then who at CCP can we trust? Our CSM is just a marketing toy for CCP to give us the sense of having something to say, while in fact we are just along for the ride. Nothing we do matters, your Dev made that very clear thanks.

Amazing that CCP is more concerned about 1 case of SOMER/RMT than they are about an entire community raging, yelling, quitting etc. How much response have we had here? 5 posts? and a vauge townhall where the Dev didn't do anything but show us a fat middle finger?

So please.. When you talk about respect, try to look in your own ranks.. Respect is earned, and it isn't earned by lying and disrespecting the community. This is why I petitioned the community team a long time ago, to get you in here and stop the madness, but you were silent..

You (red. CCP) choose to **** on the desk.. Please be respectfull enough to not complain about the smell and clean it up yourself. Thank You.

Ps. Asking for constructive feedback? Are you trolling us? Havn't you just proved that giving feedback is pointless cause you don't give a **** anyway?


Amen!
Lamhoofd Hashur
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1488 - 2014-08-26 18:36:42 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:


If you feel strongly about these changes, then give civil and concise feedback in the Hyperion feedback thread, and I'll point the development team in that direction.



The feedback can be found in this thread, pretty much the first 50 pages was mostly relevant feedback.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1489 - 2014-08-26 18:38:27 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
@ Falcon. You may very well believe that things have got out of hand.

You may feel that people are being unfair to The devs who designed and implemented this change against the strong wishes and reasoned and detailed explanations of exactly why it was an extremely bad idea.

Whilst the Devs may have not been the deciding authority, they are the ones the management put up against the wall to face the response of the community.

The mess is one of your own making.

Clearly you would wish to move on and forget the whole thing, and consider it a successful rollout.

Others do not.

Others will not forget.

Lessons have been learned.

Decisions have been made.

So.......Good luck with that.

Remember in the years ahead, what has been seen can never be unseen.
And you as a company have been judged by your actions, and NOT your words.
We hold you responsible for your actions.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Syndiaan
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1490 - 2014-08-26 19:08:00 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
It seems like things have gotten a bit out of hand in this thread.


While you may see our development staff as avatars on a forum, please be aware that there are in fact people behind these faces, and abuse of CCP and our volunteers will not be tolerated.



You may see us as dollar signs but please be aware that people are behind these subscriptions.
Ruffio Sepico
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
#1491 - 2014-08-26 19:10:14 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
It seems like things have gotten a bit out of hand in this thread.

I can fully appreciated that some of you are unhappy with the changes that have gone out.

If you feel strongly about these changes, then give civil and concise feedback in the Hyperion feedback thread, and I'll point the development team in that direction.

Please don't make personal attacks on eachother, or employees of CCP, otherwise you'll lose the ability to post on the forums, and neither us nor you want it to come to that.

While you may see our development staff as avatars on a forum, please be aware that there are in fact people behind these faces, and abuse of CCP and our volunteers will not be tolerated.



It feels a bit like one hand doesn't know what the other does at CCP these days? Please check first sentence of this thread perhaps?

I don't think its very encouraging to be told to use a "proper feedback" thread when the wh community been pritty much ignored for weeks now. If CCP had been better at customer relations, maybe things wouldnt gone out of hand to start with ?

We are after all customers, that invested time and money into this. So if things get a bit tense when you take a dump on the customers, thats to be expected right? Both CCP and the players realized long time ago eve-online as far away from hello-kitty as can be. When uppseting players at the level this turned out, growing thick skin should be part of that process.

I see rude comments, personal attacks and such as a failure of CCP to communicate. After all what is left for people to do when no one listen, and you been walked over?












calaretu
Honestly We didnt know
Riddle us this
#1492 - 2014-08-26 19:20:03 UTC
Bleedingthrough wrote:
calaretu wrote:

It takes 4 characters with 100mn mwd battleships (and at least one of those need to know basic addition of numbers) two passes. Unless you are lazy and only willing to roll with orcas this change will have no real risk effect.. raptor navy should know better then the arguments presented above


You will die without being polarized even in cruisers. Prove: http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=24970053
Devoters will land 10 km off the WH. Good luck getting them back home.

It feels like a gate now.

And btw. we are talking about a 3 bil C2-C5 connection.

Edit: And a few mins later they have enough ppl online so we could not even roll if we had enough ppl online to close it in one go. Now what? Cant split their forces, can't brawl it out (would be suicide), offline for the rest of the day?


Eh. Kite? Snipe? Something else creative? I am sure you guys have more doctrines than pure brawling. The killmail you link is exactly why this change is a good thing. Also have scouts so you know what you jump into so you dont jump a vigi into a t3 sitting and waiting.
Chicken Exroofer
Regional Assault and Recon
#1493 - 2014-08-26 19:29:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Chicken Exroofer
CCP Falcon wrote:
It seems like things have gotten a bit out of hand in this thread.

I can fully appreciated that some of you are unhappy with the changes that have gone out.

If you feel strongly about these changes, then give civil and concise feedback in the Hyperion feedback thread, and I'll point the development team in that direction.





People have felt "strongly" since about 30 seconds after this idea was floated. Counting deletions, something like 130 plus pages worth of "strongly"


There have been posts nearly a full screen high, stating clearly and concisely what the results of this would be.

The WH csm has stated "clearly and concisely" what the vast majority of wh residents think.

Major WH corps have "strongly", and "clearly and concisely" stated their take on the whole thing.

Small WH corps like mine have "strongly", and "clearly and concisely" stated their take on the whole thing.

What did you think would happen?
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#1494 - 2014-08-26 19:29:56 UTC
calaretu wrote:
Bleedingthrough wrote:
calaretu wrote:

It takes 4 characters with 100mn mwd battleships (and at least one of those need to know basic addition of numbers) two passes. Unless you are lazy and only willing to roll with orcas this change will have no real risk effect.. raptor navy should know better then the arguments presented above


You will die without being polarized even in cruisers. Prove: http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=24970053
Devoters will land 10 km off the WH. Good luck getting them back home.

It feels like a gate now.

And btw. we are talking about a 3 bil C2-C5 connection.

Edit: And a few mins later they have enough ppl online so we could not even roll if we had enough ppl online to close it in one go. Now what? Cant split their forces, can't brawl it out (would be suicide), offline for the rest of the day?


Eh. Kite? Snipe? Something else creative? I am sure you guys have more doctrines than pure brawling. The killmail you link is exactly why this change is a good thing. Also have scouts so you know what you jump into so you dont jump a vigi into a t3 sitting and waiting.


I would say the opposite - it means that during off-peak times its effectively going to have an impact on the activity of what corp members can do, especially those whose work schedules, etc. might not quite match the rest of the corp. Also knowing the player in question I doubt he just randomly jumped it in unscouted without it being part of a plan.
Ahost Gceo
Violence is the Answer
Wormhole Society
#1495 - 2014-08-26 19:34:36 UTC
Just so you know CCP, I got one CSM member who liked my comment on being disappointed with your lack of concern about feedback. I would hazard a guess that I wasn't the only person who said the same exact thing the he +1'd either.

Your own CSM isn't even pleased with you. You'll need a tech-3 damage control for this one.

CCP ignore me please, I make too much sense.

Kell Braugh
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1496 - 2014-08-26 19:57:12 UTC
Glasgow Dunlop wrote:
If your going to do this with wormholes, why not jumpbridges and cynos as well?

This.
Faren Shalni
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1497 - 2014-08-26 20:01:18 UTC
Kell Braugh wrote:
Glasgow Dunlop wrote:
If your going to do this with wormholes, why not jumpbridges and cynos as well?

This.


No because we do not wish this mechanic on anyone else its that bad

So Much Space

Siliya
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1498 - 2014-08-26 20:56:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Siliya
CCP Falcon wrote:
It seems like things have gotten a bit out of hand in this thread.

I can fully appreciated that some of you are unhappy with the changes that have gone out.

If you feel strongly about these changes, then give civil and concise feedback in the Hyperion feedback thread, and I'll point the development team in that direction.

Please don't make personal attacks on eachother, or employees of CCP, otherwise you'll lose the ability to post on the forums, and neither us nor you want it to come to that.

While you may see our development staff as avatars on a forum, please be aware that there are in fact people behind these faces, and abuse of CCP and our volunteers will not be tolerated.



Seriously Falcon ... how Dense are the Devs ...
the 1st thread went 30 pages but has been ignored based on "incorrect ranges"
this thread has hit 75 pages and was ignored because someone was on a power trip

now you want us to do this all over again on yet ANOTHER thread when we know our feedback is little more to you than **** in a bucket

Im sure some people will take it there

Im also fairly sure you have a betting pool at the office about how long this thread will go or how many hoops you will get us to jump through over this change

like has been said ... look at the 1st 50 pages or so for all the feedback you need... repeating it is worthless and it wastes our time and our breath

or is your ultimate intent to burry the negtive feedback of this topic beneath all the positive feedback from everything else in the other thread that way you can call it a success
Derath Ellecon
Lotek Academy
#1499 - 2014-08-26 21:13:04 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
While you may see our development staff as avatars on a forum, please be aware that there are in fact people behind these faces, and abuse of CCP and our volunteers will not be tolerated.



While you may see the players here as avatars on a forum, please be aware that most, if not all are real people behind those faces, pretty much all of which feel passionately strong about the amazing universe CCP has created. Also many of which have far more experience living in wormholes than the very devs who proposed these ideas (I seem to recall CCP Fozzie stating at least once he has very little WH experience).

Most of these real players behind the avatars are not simply risk adverse, nor change adverse, but have a pretty good handle on the effects these changes have on WH dynamics and content creation. So it is not surprising to have the response seen in this thread when CCP asks for input and then seems to largely dismiss it.
Enthropic
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#1500 - 2014-08-26 21:16:39 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
It seems like things have gotten a bit out of hand in this thread.

I can fully appreciated that some of you are unhappy with the changes that have gone out.


Falcon, I appreciate you posting here, I really do, but I need to reply to this..
You appreciate that SOME OF US are unhappy? Some of us?
Really?
Or maybe literally rather almost EVERYONE WHO LIVES IN WH SPACE MAYBE? Maybe you read that thread and figure out for yourself what the majority of people here want?

CCP Falcon wrote:
If you feel strongly about these changes, then give civil and concise feedback in the Hyperion feedback thread, and I'll point the development team in that direction.


You cant possibly post that sentence with a straight face, can you??
We had 30+ pages on that very topic before it got locked, and now 70+ pages on this 'feedback' thread. Both threads together had 39 THOUSAND views.
Are you saying that your 'development team' seriously now needs to be pointed in that direction. Do I need to conclude from your statement that the feedback you got so far in your dedicated feedback threads was not noticed by now by your development team??

Do you expect us now to repeat our arguments, and they WERE civil for the first dozens of pages, to post the same again in anothe thread? really?

CCP Falcon wrote:

While you may see our development staff as avatars on a forum, please be aware that there are in fact people behind these faces, and abuse of CCP and our volunteers will not be tolerated.


Maybe you guys should then also be made aware that some of us lived in WH space for YEARS, and some of us put hundreds of hours into this game. Are you surprised we feel strong about this brainfart of epic proportions?
Whats next, maybe we introduce a mass-based land distance on WH after warp? Would that not spice things up, and make WH space a lot more exciting when your caps land 13 clicks off the bookmark from now on, when you initiate warp to a wh?
Im sure we would love that as well, lets give feedback, shall we?

How do you think we felt when we saw you guys on air on twitch, telling the rest of Eve how awesome your tweaks and new balances to WH space are, despite the fact that the vast majority of your WS-space players despise this new mechanic and gave you good reasons and feedback.
You ignored us, and worst of all, we got ignored without receiving any convincing explanation of why CCP (or was it just Fozzie?) feels that these WH mechanics needed to be changed?
Now you guys are really surprised that people are getting SERIOUSLY pissed off?

Really?