Crime & Punishment

You're reading too much into this mate.

1. People in hisec aren't all AFK, but due to the Space Police "protecting" them, the residents of Hisec tend to AFK more routinely, or at the very least be more "inactive" when it comes to their safety.

2. Yes, he really is safer because of him and his allies putting forth the effort to make their home "safe". You can do the same thing in lowsec. Not so much in hisec, because you can't freely shoot neutrals.

3. Yeah, yeah, tons of empty systems .. but that's a symptom of the Sov mechanics coupled to human tendency -- I mean, we want to take huge swaths of space ... but at the same time, we want to be "near civilization".


Having lived everywhere, hisec is the most unnerving to be in, due to (comparatively) high neutral populations in the systems, and not knowing what people are up to.

You jump through a (hisec) gate into 20 ABC ... is that a gank fleet ... or just coincidence ?

I think we may be talking at cross points here. PvP is not exclusively players shooting other players while undocked. That is player combat. Every single activity you listed above is a PvP activity, even if no direct player combat is involved.

Mining is PvP. You are competing against other miners for limited resources. This is especially true in hisec ice belts.
Exploration is PvP. You are competing against other explorers to find and hack sites first.
Industry is PvP. Industrialists have a limited pool of materials to build from and must acquire it by competing with other industrialists.
Trading is PvP. Every time you undercut someone, or get undercut by someone, there is direct competition.
Hauling is PvP. People who can get cargo to their destination quicker and with more certainty will earn more ISK than those who can't.
PvE is PvP. NPCs drop resources valuable to all and free for all to take.
Ganking is PvP. And no, they're not idiots. Idiots wouldn't be so outrageously successful at it.



Since you still seem to have missed my point, let me highlight it for you:


People are free to do as they like in EvE. It is a sandbox. This freedom includes the ability to influence the gameplay of others. What I see as being dangerous about a certain group of hisec residents is the fact that they don't like other people influencing their gameplay and constantly whine and complain in attempt to get gameplay changed instead of adapting to their environment. I have absolutely zero problem with people who never (willingly) engage in combat and never leave hisec. My problem is with the subset of those people who want to make it impossible for other players to engage them in combat.

CCP is on the record numerous times stating that bumping is a legitimate tactic and legal gameplay, so long as it is not so persistent between two people that it constitutes harassment. I'm not sure where your notion of it being an unfixed bug comes from.



One last thing: Forum Warrioring is a form of PvP too....

Not leaving EvE and adapting to the gameplay style is the very definition of HTFU. Learning to accept ship losses at a young age will do nothing but benefit those affected. The sooner they adapt, the sooner they can enjoy the real game.

And if they dont adapt, they are welcome to go play WoW.

So jump freighter pilots are rookie targets? Good to know.

Also, do this look like a bunch of "rookie" kills to you?



Retrievers and Mackinaws are great for solo miners who don't have an Orca or a hauler to support them. For them, the lower yield is worth the larger hold. But for all those miners using fleets of Mackinaws surrounding an Orca? They're not maximizing yield, nor are they maximizing tank. What are they maximizing? The amount of time between necessary player actions. (Note, I make this statement without any judgement. It's just a rational conclusion based on the relative strengths of the ships.)


I got shot at a lot as a newbie, long before CODE. ever existed, and I know lots of other who were too. Some left, most didn't. If you can't handle getting your ship blown up, EvE probably isn't the game for you. Better to figure that out early on, isn't it?

Aye and I learned a lot from them too both in the game and from videos and blogs i read as well. They introduced me to a whole new world of emergent gameplay and i love it.

Well I just listened to the manifesto, and it sounds a bit like James 315 is scared that the miners are going to wreck the game for everyone. It's pretty amusing stuff really, but I cannot see it happening.

Miners are pretty easy to kill for a start, and CCP have stated time and time again that high sec is not supposed to be safe space. It is quite clear that the most vocal players in the eve community are those who wish to see high sec ganks continue. Do you really believe that CCP will change things, to the point of destroying our game completely?

I find it a bit ironic how the OP asked for us to avoid being hysterical in the thread, when he is propagating the very same! We have nothing to fear from the miners guys. Keep blowing them up and have fun!

Oh and if CCP tweak things again, like they did with the last balancing pass on the mining ships, then HTFU and adapt.

Hi Renegade Heart - and thanks for listening.

There have been many interesting and well-reasoned comments to the thread thus far. This pleases me because when the name 'James 315' appears in a thread, it does frequently lead to bitter wrangling and name-calling.

Whatever you think of the content of the Manifesto II, it's encouraging to see the assertions discussed in a calm manner, without the knee-jerk blather we sometimes encounter.

Thanks to all.

We do our best to save highsec each barge at a time. Just finished with a Mackinaw ORE edition. I think its the 4th or 5th one I've killed. They are WMDs of the most terrifying kind.... its like a nuclear warhead with a gold and diamond casing.

I am not talking of freigthers.
code propaganda ist not about freighters.

You got me.

It is mostly not only.

In fact freighters are "fair game".