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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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PVE Missile (Fix)?
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Gandarh
BSE Protection Agency.
#1 - 2014-08-26 11:32:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Gandarh
Well..

I love missiles.. Basically it’s my favorite weapon system by far... But it seems a bit underpowered in some PVE perspectives.

My suggestion is..

Let missile have the ability to change targets midflight, when the target they are shot at is destroyed by other means. "Some sort of pre prime on target no2" Given ofc they have the excess flight time to get there.. And also would still require new missiles to be fired with a restart on the cycle on the new target.

All missiles has flight computers.. And i don’t see any reason why they wouldn’t be able to receive new target commands.

This will lower the waste of missile ammo and make missile boats actually usable in incursions..

(also the awsome show of trails from missiles going for secondary instead.)

I don’t know how this would be applied in a PVP setting and what restrictions it presents. Or how it would behave.. even if it’s possible within the game code.

Totally bullshit? or a fair idea?

I would love to see missile boats in high end incursions. :)
Velicitia
XS Tech
#2 - 2014-08-26 11:49:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Velicitia
Gandarh wrote:

tottaley bullshit?


Well, your spelling definitely is Blink

as for the idea itself, it shouldn't be limited to "PVE Only" ... but I don't think it's entirely necessary in the first place.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Gandarh
BSE Protection Agency.
#3 - 2014-08-26 11:56:53 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
Gandarh wrote:

tottaley bullshit?


Well, your spelling definitely is Blink

as for the idea itself, it shouldn't be limited to "PVE Only" ... but I don't think it's entirely necessary in the first place.


Fine.. I corrected it. You win..
Fer'isam K'ahn
SAS Veterinarians
#4 - 2014-08-26 12:20:34 UTC
Basically wondered about this, the long time on target would exclude this from the general mechanics and I could support it of some sorts.

In general I have not much problem with wasted volleys cause I know how many I need for certain ships, latest after the first kill, so I adjust and pre cancel very time.

If it should be implemented it could work in conjunction with your own TP. The missile follow the TP and since the cycle is shorter you can switch it to a new target if destruction of the first is imminent.

In principle not necessary, but hey, why not ... Blink
Gandarh
BSE Protection Agency.
#5 - 2014-08-26 12:23:23 UTC
Fer'isam K'ahn wrote:
Basically wondered about this, the long time on target would exclude this from the general mechanics and I could support it of some sorts.

In general I have not much problem with wasted volleys cause I know how many I need for certain ships, latest after the first kill, so I adjust and pre cancel very time.

If it should be implemented it could work in conjunction with your own TP. The missile follow the TP and since the cycle is shorter you can switch it to a new target if destruction of the first is imminent.

In principle not necessary, but hey, why not ... Blink


Well i believe it to be in gangs the problem exists.. When your gang shooting at the same target. "One of the main downsides of Missile boats in incursions is the wasted volleys.
chaosgrimm
Synth Tech
#6 - 2014-08-26 12:39:33 UTC
Not a fair idea. Count volleys instead to limit the number of wasted volleys.

Turrets miss and have comparably limited range, can be tracking disrupted, are more limited with dmg type, etc
Fer'isam K'ahn
SAS Veterinarians
#7 - 2014-08-26 12:47:05 UTC
chaosgrimm wrote:
Not a fair idea. Count volleys instead to limit the number of wasted volleys.

Turrets miss and have comparably limited range, can be tracking disrupted, are more limited with dmg type, etc

Well to be fair, we are not talking about mitigating damage, we are talking about a target not being there anymore. A bit like ECM-ed can't shoot your turret and waste ammo if jammed or damped out - so why should missiles if the target is not only gone from the sensors but actually gone ?
Ulon Naus
BSE Protection Agency.
#8 - 2014-08-26 13:06:33 UTC
chaosgrimm wrote:
Not a fair idea. Count volleys instead to limit the number of wasted volleys.

Turrets miss and have comparably limited range, can be tracking disrupted, are more limited with dmg type, etc



in level 4 missions this works yes.. But if you read the post.. it says group PVE. as in multiple people shooting the same target. and you will always be the worst DPS on the team if the damage is always applied 5/10 secs later with your missiles..

this Idea wold give missile boats ability to land that first hit with the rest of the fleet.. dos require more micro managing i presume
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2014-08-26 13:14:27 UTC
Ulon Naus wrote:
chaosgrimm wrote:
Not a fair idea. Count volleys instead to limit the number of wasted volleys.

Turrets miss and have comparably limited range, can be tracking disrupted, are more limited with dmg type, etc



in level 4 missions this works yes.. But if you read the post.. it says group PVE. as in multiple people shooting the same target. and you will always be the worst DPS on the team if the damage is always applied 5/10 secs later with your missiles..

this Idea wold give missile boats ability to land that first hit with the rest of the fleet.. dos require more micro managing i presume


How about splitting your missile launchers into two groups instead of one and using F1 and F2 instead. Target has full EHP? Use both groups, target at low EHP? use F1 group and assign F2 to the next target.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#10 - 2014-08-26 13:20:59 UTC
It probably won't happen because of the server load it would create to re-calculate a new flight path for each missile. In a lvl 4 it's probably not what big of a deal but just look at what drones created when they started to be used as a main doctrine.
Ulon Naus
BSE Protection Agency.
#11 - 2014-08-26 13:22:46 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Ulon Naus wrote:
chaosgrimm wrote:
Not a fair idea. Count volleys instead to limit the number of wasted volleys.

Turrets miss and have comparably limited range, can be tracking disrupted, are more limited with dmg type, etc



in level 4 missions this works yes.. But if you read the post.. it says group PVE. as in multiple people shooting the same target. and you will always be the worst DPS on the team if the damage is always applied 5/10 secs later with your missiles..

this Idea wold give missile boats ability to land that first hit with the rest of the fleet.. dos require more micro managing i presume


How about splitting your missile launchers into two groups instead of one and using F1 and F2 instead. Target has full EHP? Use both groups, target at low EHP? use F1 group and assign F2 to the next target.


Takes care of the Ammo problem.. not the bad incursion damage they do.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2014-08-26 14:52:17 UTC
Ulon Naus wrote:
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Ulon Naus wrote:
chaosgrimm wrote:
Not a fair idea. Count volleys instead to limit the number of wasted volleys.

Turrets miss and have comparably limited range, can be tracking disrupted, are more limited with dmg type, etc



in level 4 missions this works yes.. But if you read the post.. it says group PVE. as in multiple people shooting the same target. and you will always be the worst DPS on the team if the damage is always applied 5/10 secs later with your missiles..

this Idea wold give missile boats ability to land that first hit with the rest of the fleet.. dos require more micro managing i presume


How about splitting your missile launchers into two groups instead of one and using F1 and F2 instead. Target has full EHP? Use both groups, target at low EHP? use F1 group and assign F2 to the next target.


Takes care of the Ammo problem.. not the bad incursion damage they do.



Stop whining . Missiles have plenty other advantages. What other weapon system can dish same damage and range as cruise missiles.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
w3ak3stl1nk
Hedion University
#13 - 2014-08-26 15:08:25 UTC
I agree with idea if only applies to Friend or foe missiles .

Is that my two cents or yours?
Fer'isam K'ahn
SAS Veterinarians
#14 - 2014-08-26 15:22:06 UTC
Ulon Naus wrote:
Takes care of the Ammo problem.. not the bad incursion damage they do.

Come on, I gave you the hint of justification and good will, now you are just whining... was this nothing more then a rant ? Is Buhu, time on target coming next ? Like we haven't seen that before.

w3ak3stl1nk wrote:
I agree with idea if only applies to Friend or foe missiles .

Would make some sense, yes.

In the end it comes down to gain (ingame comfort/performance) versus effort of implementing it and keeping it sustainable on the server. I think it might come up a few digits short on the gain side - independent of it being nice and all.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#15 - 2014-08-26 17:45:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Mike Voidstar
Basically, you want all missiles to behave as FOF missiles if their original target is no long available.

I could see creating a module for this, sort of a twisted mirror of the drone link augmentor that expands your ships communication with missles beyond go here and hit this one thing.


For instance, you lock and activate the guidance module on a ship you are not firing at. If the launcher's target become unavailable they immediately fly to the closest of the guidance locked targets. Still requires a lock, so still suffers from ECM unless using actual FOF missiles.
Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#16 - 2014-08-26 17:53:02 UTC
I really see no good in this, your missiles probably wont have the range to go 80km's in one direction the abrupty change to hit the other battleship 70km's off that one so they just die in space anyways, If your overkilling learn to cut your cycles and save missiles sort of like managing drones.

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#17 - 2014-08-27 05:20:02 UTC
Gandarh wrote:

I would love to see missile boats in high end incursions. :)


It won't happen, absent either a 2500 DPS missile beast which manages to sufficiently out DPS a vindi to make it worth the poor application to everything but towers, or a massive re-working of how missiles apply damage.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#18 - 2014-08-27 15:50:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Kitty Bear
chaosgrimm wrote:
Not a fair idea. Count volleys instead to limit the number of wasted volleys.

Turrets miss and have comparably limited range, can be tracking disrupted, are more limited with dmg type, etc


turrets also crit for triple damage
can switch between low range & high dps or long range & low dps t2 ammo
can switch between t1 & faction ammo types that have a large spread of range/dps values
dps is applied to 2+ resistance values
base hull damage bonus is applied to ALL ammunition variants used
ammo switching is fatser, in some cases instantaneous

best way to increase missile dps is webbing the target
as a solo pilot this is largely redundant .. missiles are 'long range' .. webs are 'short range'
as a gang pilot ... webbing can be provided by others
but then you've 'gimped' your fit because it doesn't have the "holy trinity" of pvp modules


missiles don't really need 'fixing' as they aren't broken
they just work slightly differently to turrets

yes it would be nice if missiles had more autonomy
but they seem to be modelled on the 'guidance required' philosophy
with the guidance being provided by the ship that launches them