Player Features and Ideas Discussion

In the right hands the Phoenix is just downright nasty. Not sure what the latest changes have done to it t

I'm not a dread pilot so I cant help you with that. As far as I know there is only one madman out there who is not just willing to dump it on small gangs but is very good at it. There is a youtube vid kicking around somewhere of him beating the snot out of low sec gangs. Big issue with pulling stunts in ships like these is that you cant operate in the same area twice. Bigger fish are likely to drop on your head.

People armor tank the Phoenix and then just fill the mid slots with webs and target painters. It is basically the new "blap dred."

I'm totally serious too. A fully tanked battleship can just disappear in two or three shots.

Its only pitfall is that it is goddamn fragile against other capitals.

We don't need more OP ships.
Let CCP focus on broken carriers, motherships and Titans.

It stopped being nasty unless you make the thing paper.

my question is the phoenix good against other capital ships under "general" combat conditions?

my understanding was that it, and all other dreadnoughts, were for attacking structures.

i thought carriers were for killing dreadnoughts and other carriers, and titans. if thats the case, i want an alternative to a carrier, because i didnt train for a drone ship.

when you say the phoenix works fine. define fine. all ive understood is that its the worst dreadnought and that its too niche. i want a general purpose combat ship.

I dont understand going from kestrel, to corax, caracal, drake, raven, to finally.... carrier drone boat for combat.

The op part would be you in top post said something good not needing logistics (I am assuming you meant triage) or siege. That be op...its the siege mode that makes dreads work well, but has downsides (no RR, support of other kind). If the dps on the field (or enemy is capping you out hard) to smash you in siege...well then make it a game. Time how long to drop you or something lol.

You also want the dps of stacked sentry carrier not using drones (as you seem to not want to train them). Roll the clock back a few years they didn't have that. If sentry doctrine keeps on gaining more in the fotm trend....I would not be shocked nor amazed if it is going to get dialed back a bit. Maybe not to when fighters were worth running (sentries made them even bigger jokes) but I do see some dialing back. Kind of hoping before next AT tbh....kind of tired of watching 3 minutes of a match going are these peeps going to do something or what? Oh....nvm....they are shooting out drones because a legit move these days, my bad.




You can limp it in a phoenix if that set against x-train. Its a dread, it shoots pos'. While not loved by all..one more dread on the pos is always welcome to get it popped and over with quicker. Cap on cap...you may take a hit here.

Also need to factor in phoenix was given a band aid with the missile changes. Cap redo is still in the soon(tm) list of ccp. Phoenix pilots aren't all happy, some seem to be legit comments from the rev pilots and 2 other races we can argue are pretty well set up by and large (they don't seem to whine much anyway and have the common sense to not say yep....we got it pretty good...doh did we give it away?). If/when redo comes that may change.


Or bite he x-train bullet. Guns are fun...personally not seeing how you lack this as rokh is usually the preferred fleet BS. If above cap redo doesn't pan out as planned....you got the guns for gallante all done. Ship trains are easy....especially with BS 3 now for cap unlock.



You also said not digging drone trains. That is what a carrier does...accept and move on. Also need to look at how drone doctrine is a fact of life now. Just a few matches of AT will show this. Its the annoying dps that can make you go shoot out the drone boat spitting them out. Or pop the drones. In AT I have seen both methods work. Latter seems to work better though.

So ... don't put the dread in siege?

edit

SIEGED Dreads are ideal for POS because you usually drop near them, and they don't move at all. Caps are a bit finicky, because ranges mean you're likely gonna need to be using rails/beams.

Carriers are "easier" because you can swap drones/fighters at will, and pretty much "always" get the range you need.

Under no circumstance should there be new capital ships added without clearly defining a unique role for them that is not already filled by another ship/item.

Look at the Rorqual for example. It's only unique role has been usurped by the new Compression Array and now it's effectively a hugely expensive, jump-capable Orca.



Re: the above Phoenix discussion. The Phoenix is a great dread (especially after it's recent changes) that unfortunately sports a weapon system that is exceedingly difficult to make full use of. You can make an effective blap dread with it, at the expense of it's tank. It's great for shooting POSes, as long as there's no smartbomb wall in the way. It's great for shooting other capitals as long as they're nearly stationary.

The turret dreads are just so much easier to take full advantage of that the Phoenix gets seen as less desirable.

Nor am I saying there should be. Personally, I would never fly a dread without good subcap support, but I know others who do.

My point was that the Phoenix always tends to need a bit more support (more webs, more painters) than the other dreads to capitalize on it's full damage potential. (Pun intended.) Whether that support is local or not is irrelevant.