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Fastest L2 mission runner?

Author
Carniflex
StarHunt
Mordus Angels
#21 - 2014-08-25 08:02:45 UTC
I have tried rapid light cerberus/caracal and they are less than ideal for some L2 missions. The launchers run dry in many missions with some rats left and then you are stuck twiddling the thumbs while they reload. Heavies would work probably a little better but have some application issues against frigates. Then again guns do not have shot travel time and ~3 sec RoF on 250mm rails with 3x magstabs is advantage as well. With navy antimatter it's almost exactly enough for L2 frigates.

About one volleying frigs with 250mm rails. If they are at correct range then usually they do indeed pop in one volley with antimatter, however, you are shooting into falloff with antimatter in a good number of missions and as such some frigates do survive with a small sliver of hull. It is still faster to just put another volley into them than to start switching ammo .. probably. I got some navy thorium to try that out. Spike seems to be not quite good enough to one volley frigates - some pop some dont in a single volley.

I got a Thorax, Navy Exec and Brutix fitted and hauled out. Now will see if I can get some time to run the numbers on them. Still not sure if Thorax tracking bonus is better than navy exec dps bonus. Just have to see. The volley damage they do is exactly the same, Thorax just has the Tracking bonus and navy exec has the RoF bonus. Thorax RoF is 2.98 sec, Navy Exec somewhere around 2.2 sec. However, the server ticks in full seconds so in practice both will shoot every 3 (usually 4) seconds because of server ticks. Brutix has the same 2.98 sec RoF with 250mm rails but significant volley damage advantage so it should be able to one volley frigs are either grater ranges by using something other than antimatter or perhaps even one volley elite frigs at range.

I did eyeball also Astrate but it was abit too expensive atm. It would have 1.98 sec RoF tho and that falloff bonus can be significant as well. It's just horribly not agile at all, same as brutix.

Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.

Tolkaz Khamsi
Empire Reclamation Services
#22 - 2014-08-25 13:49:37 UTC
Brutix would be overkill for L2 missions, IMO (and you may not be able to get it into certain gated deadspace pockets as well). I think past a certain point, DPS delivery is less important in L2 missions than agility and tracking (if you're using guns). T1 cruiser hulls work just fine for L2 missions - I really don't think you're going to increase your efficiency all that much by going to T2 hulls or BC hulls. Using a T2/faction fit T1 cruiser hull will blow through L2 missions about as fast as is possible.

I've never really seen the point to mission-running in pimped out ships until you get into the L4 missions. T1 hulls with T2/faction fits work just dandy about 99% of the time. That equation does change in L4 missions, but by then players are usually skilled enough and wealthy enough to use whatever ship they want. (Though even if I were an Eve billionaire, I'd have serious misgivings about dropping a billion ISK on a marauder when I could get a perfectly capable, fully-fitted T1 battleship for about a fourth of the cost.)
Tixx Enaka
I Like Raccoons
#23 - 2014-08-25 16:02:51 UTC
Worm. I doubt a cruiser+ could lock and kill frig swarms as fast as bonused light drones. Frig agility and warp speed. Some missions I stopped blitzing it was easier and nearly as fast just to turn them loose.

I'm newish though so. Excuse the random avatar I got tired and haven't gone back for a new clone yet.
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#24 - 2014-08-25 16:21:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Kitty Bear
Carniflex wrote:
As the title suggests.

What do you think is the fastest L2 mission runner. Keeping it more or less reasonable so lets say up to approx 150 .. 200 mil for it? The cheaper and the faster the better ofc.

I'm not that frequent in running L2's but it seems to be mostly firgates with occasional cruiser mixed in. A lot of warping around. It would be for low sec / null for the standings grind.

Edit: Clarification about SP. Assuming one can fly everything and fit everything that's available in game.



fit an AB and your weapon of preference

any cruiser will eat L2's and then ask for more.
as you've mentioned lo/nul ... you might want to go with an AF for it's faster align/warp times
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2014-08-25 17:38:02 UTC
Vexor navy. Geckos. DNC in the mids. They fly. Send a single gecko to each group. Bob's yer uncle.
Carniflex
StarHunt
Mordus Angels
#26 - 2014-08-25 18:07:51 UTC
Based on a little handful of missions it seems that actually Thorax might come a little bit ahead of navy exec but that is just an initial impression as the difference is a bit too small to really tell based on the limited dataset I have.

With a 3% hardwire it seems both are capable of one shotting most frigates even with navy thorium within approx ~40..50 km or so.

Problem with drones is that they travel sloooow. I did try Ishkur earlier. With Thorax navy exec you are deleting a frigate every 3-4 seconds. Have also a sensor booster to speed up the locking process a little and reach some far away ones with spike in some missions where the groups are outside of thorax/navy exec default lock range. The exact fits I tried are.

[Thorax, L2_trc]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Experimental 10MN Afterburner I
Small C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines, Scan Resolution Script

250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer I
Medium Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer I

Hornet II x5
Hornet EC-300 x5
Optimal Range Script x1
Tracking Speed Script x1
Targeting Range Script x1
Scan Resolution Script x1
Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M x5000
Spike M x5000
Caldari Navy Thorium Charge M x5000
Nanite Repair Paste x100

[Exequror Navy Issue, L2]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Experimental 10MN Afterburner I
F-12 Nonlinear Tracking Processor, Tracking Speed Script
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script

250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M

Medium Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer I
Medium Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I

Hobgoblin II x5
Optimal Range Script x1
Tracking Speed Script x1
Targeting Range Script x1
Scan Resolution Script x1
Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M x5000
Spike M x5000
Caldari Navy Thorium Charge M x5000
Nanite Repair Paste x100

Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.

afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2014-08-25 19:08:28 UTC
Geckos would be breaking 5km/s. Not really slow and they often negate any locking issues.
Carniflex
StarHunt
Mordus Angels
#28 - 2014-08-25 20:13:07 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Geckos would be breaking 5km/s. Not really slow and they often negate any locking issues.


I have used Geckos on rattlesnakes doing L4 missions in hi sec. They do have issues, especially against small targets. For a start against small stuff they freeze up for few seconds before they start burning towards them and they need good amount of micromanagement because of often picking targets in non-sensible way burning between targets at the opposite ends of the grid.

So I highly doubt that Gecos could offer a better effectivity in L2 mission than just deleting a frigate every 3 seconds with the guns. Especially in these missions with just small number of frigates present.

Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#29 - 2014-08-25 20:22:26 UTC
If you are going to go down the drone path then you are going to want sentries. No flight time and it is possible to reach out to the long ranges.
Cu3ball
Edge of Darkness
#30 - 2014-08-26 00:21:39 UTC
This is the setup I use to 3/10 DEDs. Works great. Sure lvl 2's would be quick and easy. With good skills, the Orges have a top speed of 3400~ and Hammers have 4500~. With the Omni, both 1-2 shot frig's. Wardens are great for long range stuff.

You can ignore my highs and rigs. They don't really matter, just substitute for what ever works for you .

[Ishtar, Ishtar]

Improved Cloaking Device II
Core Probe Launcher II (Sisters Core Scanner Probe)
Auto Targeting System I
Small Tractor Beam I

Omnidirectional Tracking Link II (Tracking Speed Script)
2x Drone Navigation Computer II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
10MN Afterburner II

2x Drone Damage Amplifier II
Shadow Serpentis Armor Thermic Hardener
Shadow Serpentis Armor Kinetic Hardener
Medium Armor Repairer II

2x Medium Sentry Damage Augmentor I

5x Hobgoblin II
5x Warden II
5x Ogre II
5x Hammerhead II


Good luck, hope this helps.
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2014-08-26 01:47:18 UTC
Cu3ball wrote:
This is the setup I use to 3/10 DEDs. Works great. Sure lvl 2's would be quick and easy. With good skills, the Orges have a top speed of 3400~ and Hammers have 4500~. With the Omni, both 1-2 shot frig's. Wardens are great for long range stuff.

You can ignore my highs and rigs. They don't really matter, just substitute for what ever works for you .

[Ishtar, Ishtar]

Improved Cloaking Device II
Core Probe Launcher II (Sisters Core Scanner Probe)
Auto Targeting System I
Small Tractor Beam I

Omnidirectional Tracking Link II (Tracking Speed Script)
2x Drone Navigation Computer II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
10MN Afterburner II

2x Drone Damage Amplifier II
Shadow Serpentis Armor Thermic Hardener
Shadow Serpentis Armor Kinetic Hardener
Medium Armor Repairer II

2x Medium Sentry Damage Augmentor I

5x Hobgoblin II
5x Warden II
5x Ogre II
5x Hammerhead II


Good luck, hope this helps.


Not sure you really need pirate faction hardeners in level 2's

just saying :D
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#32 - 2014-08-26 11:43:18 UTC
Its not like they are expensiveP
Cu3ball
Edge of Darkness
#33 - 2014-08-26 12:45:22 UTC
They are about 20 mil apiece. You can easily swap them out for meta4/T2's. Fitting was just what I already was using. Ran a few lvl 2's last night, just to see how it does. Before I got to the gates, most of the frig's were dead. This might not be the 'best'. But it sure is fast and very easy.

Just my 2 isk.
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#34 - 2014-08-27 22:34:11 UTC
Gila.

1 meta 4 medium nos.
basic EM amp.

4x heavy missile launchers.
Drone omni.
Drone Nav.
3x DDA.
10 MN AB.
DC
invuln
Large shield booster.
All T2.

2 CPU rigs.
shield extender rig.

Mission specific drones.

433 mil total.

816 max DPS.
666 M/S.
214.5 burst tank last about a min.
76 def sustained.

Cap stable with NOS and Booster off at 69%.

Drones will pop frigs fast and have plenty of speed to reduce flight time.
Use the missiles on the bigger NPC's and those that are furtherest away.
Derrick Diggler
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#35 - 2014-08-28 02:07:56 UTC
I use Navy Caracal. Smashes through things like they are not there. Takes no time to move onto lvl 3's in it.
Just an idea that. I am sure that any other cruiser would be just as nice.
Carniflex
StarHunt
Mordus Angels
#36 - 2014-08-28 07:38:27 UTC
Ireland VonVicious wrote:
Gila.

1 meta 4 medium nos.
basic EM amp.

4x heavy missile launchers.
Drone omni.
Drone Nav.
3x DDA.
10 MN AB.
DC
invuln
Large shield booster.
All T2.

2 CPU rigs.
shield extender rig.

Mission specific drones.

433 mil total.

816 max DPS.
666 M/S.
214.5 burst tank last about a min.
76 def sustained.

Cap stable with NOS and Booster off at 69%.

Drones will pop frigs fast and have plenty of speed to reduce flight time.
Use the missiles on the bigger NPC's and those that are furtherest away.


But that is not a Level 2 blitzing setup. This seems to be more suitable for L3's. It is overtanked, has issues applying that on-paper damage to the point Thorax would outperform it in L2's and it's warp speed is too slow, as you spend a lot of time in warp when doing L2's.

Besides, at that price-tag I would rather take Astrate or a T3.

On a related note, perhaps a new challenge would be indeed to come up with something under 500 mil that blitzes L2's and L3's the fastest. Or just skip the zoo and beeline straight to Marachiel ;)

I have done now around 30-40 L2's with these ships. Only problematic one is L2 damsel in distress so far where the spawning elite frigates get under your guns, but they do not point so you can just pop the pleasure hub and moonwalk out with the damsel. One drone L2 was also a bit odd where I had serious problems popping the drones at 20 km until they started burning towards me.

At the end of the day all three platforms are more or less equal which I tested (Brutix, Navy Exec and Thorax). Thorax's tracking bonus seems to cause better quality hits within ~30 km, Navy exec pulls slightly ahead in situations where there are a little more cruisers present as it pops them few seconds faster and Brutix advantage is ability to pop frigates at range with spike in one volley as it has the biggest alpha of them all. With 8% warp speed implant cruisers do 4.5 AU/s and Brutix does 4.2 AU/s.

Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.

erg cz
Federal Jegerouns
#37 - 2014-08-28 09:52:06 UTC
I did not found anything better, than a passive shield tanked Gnosis. Usually PvE requires active tank since the damage is spread in time much more (multiply spawns), then in short PvP combats, but passive shield tank on Gnosis usually lasts long enough to finish any L2 mission. You can fit bonused medium turrets of any kind and any size plus you have enough bandwidth for 2 sentry drones (2 more turrets) and enough bay for one full flight of heavily bonused scout drones. Plenty of slots. Large cargo hold for stuff and high slot for tractor. It is very fast in what concerns agility.
Barton Breau
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2014-08-28 10:15:33 UTC
Recently ran some low caldari missions and quite a few featured spawns 100+km away from each other, so a mwd might be a good idea.

But yes, worm will do it all, sometimes one has to back off a bit in l3s if passive tanked.
Carniflex
StarHunt
Mordus Angels
#39 - 2014-08-28 10:31:15 UTC
erg cz wrote:
I did not found anything better, than a passive shield tanked Gnosis. Usually PvE requires active tank since the damage is spread in time much more (multiply spawns), then in short PvP combats, but passive shield tank on Gnosis usually lasts long enough to finish any L2 mission. You can fit bonused medium turrets of any kind and any size plus you have enough bandwidth for 2 sentry drones (2 more turrets) and enough bay for one full flight of heavily bonused scout drones. Plenty of slots. Large cargo hold for stuff and high slot for tractor. It is very fast in what concerns agility.


It indeed seems quite decent. Damage wise it's though in the same ballpark and engagement range as Thorax. Main advantage over Thorax seems to be the ability to get enough tank on it to last through easier L3's as well and very exceptional scan res on sensors allowing fast locking.

That out of the way it probably will not be any faster than Thorax or the other 2 I tried.

I EFT warriored up also a Marachiel fit with dual 425mm's and a rail proteus fit. Mach seems quite attractive and can be one size fits it all - only problem with it is that any red scout seeing it blip on dirscan attracts probably a bit too much attention and sooner or later I would encounter few cloaked recons waiting for me. Mach is certainly reasonably agile but not agile enough to warp before a recon can drop cloak, get a point and light a cyno.

Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.

Carniflex
StarHunt
Mordus Angels
#40 - 2014-08-28 10:33:12 UTC
Barton Breau wrote:
Recently ran some low caldari missions and quite a few featured spawns 100+km away from each other, so a mwd might be a good idea.

But yes, worm will do it all, sometimes one has to back off a bit in l3s if passive tanked.


It seems to be faster to have a sensor booster, switch script for targeting range and use Spike on 100 km targets with rails. the 250mm ones can reach more or less 100 km with spike and couple of tracking enhancers.

Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.

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