Player Features and Ideas Discussion

You are probably right, but making the ship better for wormholes may not be the fix it needs. Just thinking drone repair bonus might be neat and different compared to normal RR. The tank style of astero and stratios is good. Making it work for data/relic/ghost might help.

My only issue with your theme here is the limited cargo capacity of the ship means you can only clear out a few Talocans before its full. Granted, thats full of nice loot, but full nonetheless. Zephyr is an excellent solution for scouting sleeper sites assuming it's bonuses still work.

I've been following this debate a while now, not sure if I should even bring anything up as I don't own, and am very unlikely to ever own, a Nestor, as it just doesn't suit my conservative, carebearish style of play and PVP.

I do appreciate that this ship can now effectively traverse space and (especially in a spider tanking fleet of similar hulls) venture into the once defenders-only battleship using crowd of C1 wormholes. Sure, you have to offline all your plates to enter, but still you CAN enter and, more importantly, leave when the deed is done, without the need to self destruct like every other battleship hull in the game has to from a C1 system. Kudos to actually having a potential design goal for this ship.

Here's the only downside... it's a 1.6 billion isk hull that only really shines when paired with at least another 1.6 billion ISK hull. By that point thats a 20 man fleet of anything else we'd be using to bash a set of POSes in a C1, with some T2 logi support thrown in for good measure. The same designs that would hold a small group of anything else at bay will hold a small group of Nestors off as well.

What I'm referring to here, ladies and gents, is that a Dickstar design POS will be even more effective against a fleet of remote repping battleships than it will be against a fleet of what folks used before this change hits. Usually its about having enough meatsuits to sit in capsules to fly stuff, not about how few hulls someone can bring in (and out) of an engagement in EVE. The odds almost always favor the group with the higher numbers.

Higher numbers and cheaper hulls means more flexibility and adaptability. Yes, the Nestor takes the place of an Orca for these doctrines invading C2-4 wormholes now, but only to a small degree as a Nestor can't haul in the POS, or the siege support tower modules, or the extra ammo or POS fuel or whatever else you may desire for a protracted engagement, meaninng at least a DST is still required for this form of warfare.

I believe some of the prominent nullsec groups have already stated that any doctrine is going to specifically avoid large fleets of ships over 250m in value. This means HACs are about the higher end of things, with some T2 logi and CS support. Pirate BS hulls are too pricey, navy hulls are the same, even navy BCs and pirate cruisers end up being too expensive in most cases. So at least the right group is being targeted for these, in WHs, but in almost every case you would want a Nestor, some T2 logi or an Archon would do the job more effectively, with less risk, and greater chance of all fleet members surviving.

Now, I could be wrong. The Nestor might be that hero refitting ship able to save that dread that just got pointed from a certain (as well as protracted and lingering) death. But 3 T3s might be a better investment, for around the same pricetag. But hey, I'm always around the risk vs. reward. If I can make a 5m (fit included) Epithal or Kryos do the same task as a 250m Occator, you better believe I'm leaving the T2 at home and running gate camps in my T1. (Besides, it's so fun watching guys reshipping trying to find something that can take it out before I warp or stop it.) The same stuff that would stop it would stop any DST cold. The same camps that would let me sneak past unscathed would let both ships through equally. Its about what risk is worthy of the reward, and how crucial is that cargo I'm hauling.

In the case of the Nestor, how much do I need a BS that can enter and leave a C1? How many BS hulls can I drop in that same C1 and not care if they live or die, and get much greater effect from? Would 3x RR Domis do the job better, for a small fraction of the price? They most surely would. Its even easy to get friends to come and join me in a romp if I'm handing them all a ship to use (and lose) while we're shooting stuff.

I can appreciate the idea that someone actually considered hisec when balancing something, but this really isn't a positive change. This ship lacks a well defined niche, and it's viability in WH space is severely limited by cost/inability to cloak/too large to begin with. The logistics feature seems more like a shot in the dark to create some sort of all purpose craft, not really working very well, and where's our shield counterpart?

No BS should be cov-ops in my opinion, they're just too damn big to hide. Giving it the target spectrum breaker with associated bonus would make for some interesting tactical choices on an attackers part though. Ignore the BS and go after the unhindered hi-repped associated stratios/asteros trying to eat your ship or try to target the BS and very possibly waste time if you don't get a lock...whilst the associated stratios and asteros (asterii?) are trying to eat you.

the sleepers would just wipe the floor with your drones before retargeting you.

You forgot about the neut domi...

Whoops, I thought I had posted here yesterday but it looks like the forum ate my post and only registered that I had updated the OP.

In general we think that a battleship that is more agile than average with the prop mod off and less agile than average with the prop mod on is a perfectly fine point of distinction, but the version of the Nestor on SISI was indeed taking that a little too far.

So we're pulling back the inertia increase (to 0.35) and adding 5m/s back to the base speed. This version should be on the next build of SISI, and will likely reach TQ. Of course we will be continuing to observe and adjust as always.

Thanks for the continued feedback everyone.

just why, this ship is a joke. give up.

If you are really trying to make this a Jack Of All Trades support ship, you may need to consider allowing an unbonused Warfare Link and Command Processors.