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DDOS Queries

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Faud
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#1 - 2014-08-22 14:38:08 UTC
I'm far from a tech wizard, so this question may be coming from a very uninformed viewpoint.

1) The last few times the eve servers fell over, the eve status twitter page linked to a forum post. Given that the forums have been down each time as well, all this leads to is irritated people tweeting at eve status that the forums are down as well...
Is it possible to also post the information to the eve online g+ or directly to the twitter page or similar rather than referring users to an inaccessible forum page?

2) For whatever reason, Eve seems to be suffering a lot more DDOS attacks this year, some which have lead to it being down for huge amounts of time. Is CCP actually doing something in the "back end" to DDOS proof the gerbils?
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#2 - 2014-08-22 14:39:40 UTC
This should be entertaining.

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Shari Evan
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3 - 2014-08-22 14:43:41 UTC
Faud wrote:
..some which have lead to it being down for huge amounts of time.


Huge amounts? Thats probably the most hyperbole definition of a couple of hours compared
to the 30 days online status i've ever read this far. Seriously, this is just bonkers. The Servers
get DDoS'd and go down for a couple of hours and some people almost die because of withdrawal
symptoms.
Amhra Rho
Accujac Elimination
#4 - 2014-08-22 14:44:17 UTC
DDoS proofing is expensive.

There's real reasons why your Eve character doesn't do /dance.
Faud
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#5 - 2014-08-22 14:50:02 UTC
Shari Evan wrote:
Faud wrote:
..some which have lead to it being down for huge amounts of time.


Huge amounts? Thats probably the most hyperbole definition of a couple of hours compared
to the 30 days online status i've ever read this far. Seriously, this is just bonkers. The Servers
get DDoS'd and go down for a couple of hours and some people almost die because of withdrawal
symptoms.




Fair, perhaps it's an over dramatic term being used. I didn't even try to log in yesterday, but I heard reports of it being down for several hours. There was an entire weekend it was down earlier in the year if I recall, it was DDOS'ed in June.
Perhaps the phrasing of "huge amount of hours" was poor, but I don't think the question "you guys seem to be getting more DDOS love than you used to, are you doing something about it?" is invalid
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#6 - 2014-08-22 14:54:14 UTC
Amhra Rho wrote:
DDoS proofing is expensive.

…whereas DDoDing is getting cheaper every day.

Oh, and as to your linked post, Amazon and Microsoft do indeed get their fair share of DDoS outages.
Amhra Rho
Accujac Elimination
#7 - 2014-08-22 15:03:56 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Amhra Rho wrote:
DDoS proofing is expensive.

…whereas DDoDing is getting cheaper every day.

Oh, and as to your linked post, Amazon and Microsoft do indeed get their fair share of DDoS outages.

I found one recent attack against Amazon's ISP lasting about an hour, and one recent attack against the ISP which was hosting Microsoft's Japanese domains accidentally caused by Anonymous protesting Japanese whaling.

That's it. Neither one of these attacks directly took down the bulwarked web portals of either Fortune 50.

Your move.

There's real reasons why your Eve character doesn't do /dance.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#8 - 2014-08-22 15:14:15 UTC
Amhra Rho wrote:
I found one recent attack against Amazon's ISP lasting about an hour, and one recent attack against the ISP which was hosting Microsoft's Japanese domains accidentally caused by Anonymous protesting Japanese whaling.
So claiming that they never go down is pretty disingenuous.
Amhra Rho
Accujac Elimination
#9 - 2014-08-22 15:20:34 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Amhra Rho wrote:
I found one recent attack against Amazon's ISP lasting about an hour, and one recent attack against the ISP which was hosting Microsoft's Japanese domains accidentally caused by Anonymous protesting Japanese whaling.
So claiming that they never go down is pretty disingenuous.

Word games? Really?

In both cases, their ISPs were successfully attacked. Amazon nor Microsoft are in charge of hardening their respective ISPs. After the security event in Japan, btw, Microsoft changed their ISP.

There's real reasons why your Eve character doesn't do /dance.
Pok Nibin
Doomheim
#10 - 2014-08-22 15:29:13 UTC
If you find all this interesting, this should really float your boat.
So you know, CCP ain't the lone ranger. One gaming software company was hit non-stop for 28 days -in a row.

The right to free speech doesn't automatically carry with it the right to be taken seriously.
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#11 - 2014-08-22 15:31:50 UTC
Amhra Rho wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Amhra Rho wrote:
I found one recent attack against Amazon's ISP lasting about an hour, and one recent attack against the ISP which was hosting Microsoft's Japanese domains accidentally caused by Anonymous protesting Japanese whaling.
So claiming that they never go down is pretty disingenuous.

Word games? Really?

Is it any other way with tipia?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#12 - 2014-08-22 15:33:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Amhra Rho wrote:
Word games? Really?
No. Accuracy. If you're going to say “never”, you have a very long period of time to be proven wrong.
Amazon in particular was made famous for going down from the numerous 2009 DDoSes, which is why they had to reinvent how they handled it. And hour is not something that can be brushed off as “only” in their world.

The fact remains: “never” does not apply to Microsoft or Amazon since their services have been DDoSed before and since, on some occasions for very long periods.

Quote:
In both cases, their ISPs were successfully attacked. Amazon nor Microsoft are in charge of hardening their respective ISPs. After the security event in Japan, btw, Microsoft changed their ISP.
…and all that has happened is that the attacks now need to be much bigger. Just because it is :effort: does not mean they are now impervious to DDoS (see the 2010 attempt against Amazon related to Wikileaks).

Oh, and let's not forget the swings and round-abouts on this: Amazon instances are now being used for DDoS attacks. Twisted

e: Ooh, one more link!
Amhra Rho
Accujac Elimination
#13 - 2014-08-22 15:35:03 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Amhra Rho wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Amhra Rho wrote:
I found one recent attack against Amazon's ISP lasting about an hour, and one recent attack against the ISP which was hosting Microsoft's Japanese domains accidentally caused by Anonymous protesting Japanese whaling.
So claiming that they never go down is pretty disingenuous.

Word games? Really?

Is it any other way with tipia?

I'm disinclined to make it personal, other than to suggest that Tippia likes to be right. I'll go so far as to pay Tippia a compliment by saying that he/she usually is.

There's real reasons why your Eve character doesn't do /dance.
Owin Forsyth
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#14 - 2014-08-22 15:44:41 UTC
Shari Evan wrote:
Faud wrote:
..some which have lead to it being down for huge amounts of time.


Huge amounts? Thats probably the most hyperbole definition of a couple of hours compared
to the 30 days online status i've ever read this far. Seriously, this is just bonkers. The Servers
get DDoS'd and go down for a couple of hours and some people almost die because of withdrawal
symptoms.





Yes, a few hours can be a huge amount of time to some people.

For instance, if EvE suffered no time down because of DDoS attacks in 2013, then the amount of a few hours down time so far in 2014 could be considered huge to some people . On the other hand, if EvE suffered 5 days of outages in 2013 to DDoS attacks, then the few hours suffered so far in 2014 would be considered minor by most people.

And another example, losing electricity once a week, a few hours at a time, would be considered by most people to be a major problem, but in some parts of the world this is normal. In most areas of the western world, losing electricity for only a few hours a year can make people really upset. So, it depends on what you are use to and what you expect.
Pok Nibin
Doomheim
#15 - 2014-08-22 15:54:28 UTC
Owin Forsyth wrote:
Shari Evan wrote:
Faud wrote:
..some which have lead to it being down for huge amounts of time.


Huge amounts? Thats probably the most hyperbole definition of a couple of hours compared
to the 30 days online status i've ever read this far. Seriously, this is just bonkers. The Servers
get DDoS'd and go down for a couple of hours and some people almost die because of withdrawal
symptoms.





Yes, a few hours can be a huge amount of time to some people.

For instance, if EvE suffered no time down because of DDoS attacks in 2013, then the amount of a few hours down time so far in 2014 could be considered huge to some people . On the other hand, if EvE suffered 5 days of outages in 2013 to DDoS attacks, then the few hours suffered so far in 2014 would be considered minor by most people.

And another example, losing electricity once a week, a few hours at a time, would be considered by most people to be a major problem, but in some parts of the world this is normal. In most areas of the western world, losing electricity for only a few hours a year can make people really upset. So, it depends on what you are use to and what you expect.

Just click the link in my other post, then tell us your "standard" for performance given the circumstance.

The right to free speech doesn't automatically carry with it the right to be taken seriously.
Amhra Rho
Accujac Elimination
#16 - 2014-08-22 16:04:08 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Amhra Rho wrote:
Word games? Really?
No. Accuracy. If you're going to say “never”, you have a very long period of time to be proven wrong.
Amazon in particular was made famous for going down from the numerous 2009 DDoSes, which is why they had to reinvent how they handled it. And hour is not something that can be brushed off as “only” in their world.

The fact remains: “never” does not apply to Microsoft or Amazon since their services have been DDoSed before and since, on some occasions for very long periods.

Quote:
In both cases, their ISPs were successfully attacked. Amazon nor Microsoft are in charge of hardening their respective ISPs. After the security event in Japan, btw, Microsoft changed their ISP.
…and all that has happened is that the attacks now need to be much bigger. Just because it is :effort: does not mean they are now impervious to DDoS (see the 2010 attempt against Amazon related to Wikileaks).

Oh, and let's not forget the swings and round-abouts on this: Amazon instances are now being used for DDoS attacks. Twisted

e: Ooh, one more link!

In order to make your point, you have to play like I didn'I refer to the major Amazon.com and Microsoft.com web portals, find obscure references about Amazon's unimportant cloud platform (not their web portal, which is what my post was all about), and even those references indict Amazon's ISP for cloud services once again instead of Amazon itself.

Put your hands in the air and repeat after me - "I have my hands in the air. Don't shoot me for playing word games!"

There's real reasons why your Eve character doesn't do /dance.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#17 - 2014-08-22 16:28:57 UTC
Amhra Rho wrote:
In order to make your point, you have to play like I didn'I refer to the major Amazon.com and Microsoft.com web portals, find obscure references about Amazon's unimportant cloud platform (not their web portal, which is what my post was all about), and even those references indict Amazon's ISP for cloud services once again instead of Amazon itself.
No, in order to make my point, I simply have to say that “never” is a long time and you shouldn't buy into the company hype. Both microsoft.com and amazon.com have gone down before and since, so “never” is already not true.

I also only have to point out the simple fact that the failed attacks were simply due to not having large enough a net to attack from — now consider what happens if amazon themselves provide the network.

Oh, and amazon's web services are not unimportant — anything that can bring them down can bring any other amazon service down, and if anything, if their web service goes down, it hurts them far more than if consumers can't reach the store for a few minutes.
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2014-08-22 16:32:17 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Amhra Rho wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Amhra Rho wrote:
I found one recent attack against Amazon's ISP lasting about an hour, and one recent attack against the ISP which was hosting Microsoft's Japanese domains accidentally caused by Anonymous protesting Japanese whaling.
So claiming that they never go down is pretty disingenuous.

Word games? Really?

Is it any other way with tipia?

You see, Tippia is, for the best or the worst, a honest, truthful and to-the-point guy/girl.

And very blunt about it too. If Tippia is wrong, then someone gave him the wrong info/didn't got the whole info, which, in the case of Tippia being, sometimes quite obssessive on finding and pointing out facts, a very rare occasion.


TL;DR: Tips here is blunt and curt sometimes, but he/she never lies.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Amhra Rho
Accujac Elimination
#19 - 2014-08-22 16:42:58 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Amhra Rho wrote:
In order to make your point, you have to play like I didn'I refer to the major Amazon.com and Microsoft.com web portals, find obscure references about Amazon's unimportant cloud platform (not their web portal, which is what my post was all about), and even those references indict Amazon's ISP for cloud services once again instead of Amazon itself.
No, in order to make my point, I simply have to say that “never” is a long time and you shouldn't buy into the company hype. Both microsoft.com and amazon.com have gone down before and since, so “never” is already not true.

I also only have to point out the simple fact that the failed attacks were simply due to not having large enough a net to attack from — now consider what happens if amazon themselves provide the network.

Oh, and amazon's web services are not unimportant — anything that can bring them down can bring any other amazon service down, and if anything, if their web service goes down, it hurts them far more than if consumers can't reach the store for a few minutes.

Did I tell you you could put your hands down?

Ok, for all of us here who think that technicalities and word parsing are perfectly valid, as long as it's used in an attempt to make sure you're "right", we have a winner. All congratulations to Tippia! {golf clap}.

For those of you that understand that neither Amazon.com nor Microsoft.com have gone done, are highly likely to never go down, and recognize that we're all still waiting for evidence to the contrary from the opposition, join me for a beer.

There's real reasons why your Eve character doesn't do /dance.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#20 - 2014-08-22 16:45:57 UTC
Amhra Rho wrote:
Ok, for all of us here who think that technicalities and word parsing are perfectly valid, as long as it's used in an attempt to make sure you're "right", we have a winner. All congratulations to Tippia! {golf clap}.
Thank you.

Quote:
For those of you that understand that neither Amazon.com nor Microsoft.com have gone done
…well… aside from that outage in 2013 (as part of the larger amazon web service outage). The main site was perhaps not so bad, but the outage as a whole cost them something like $5 million for 45 minutes (but I'll have to check my notes on the specifics and… pff, effort).
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