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Reprocessing Array vs. Intensive Reprocessing Array
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BFE
Shadow Flight
#1 - 2014-08-21 16:18:40 UTC  |  Edited by: BFE
Does anyone else see the frustrations of using the Intensive Reprocessing Array?!

Current: ...............Reprocessing Array: ............... Intensive Reprocessing Array: .............. Total:
PowerGrid Usage: ....150,000 MW ..........................200,000MW ..................................... +33.3% cost
CPU USage: .................. 750 tf ....................................1,000 tf ....................................... +33.3% cost
Refining Yield: ..................0.52 ......................................... 0.54 ..................... but only a +3.85% increase in yield


Sure, I get it that the Intensive can be used in 1 security level and lower... but spending 33.3% more Power and CPU is barely worth a 3.85% more yield. The refining yield should be boosted to .65 or something close. I'd spend 33.3% more CPU/Power for a +25% yield.

Should be: ..............Reprocessing Array: .................. Intensive Reprocessing Array: .................Total:
PowerGrid Usage: ......150,000 MW .................................... 200,000MW ............................. +33.3% cost
CPU USage: .....................750 tf ...............................................1,000 tf ................................+33.3% cost
Refining Yield: ....................0.52 ............................................... 0.65 ....................................+25% yield Reproc Array

With standings/etc in HS you can get upwards of .80 yield... at least let the low/null/wh crews get something worth it out of the intensive array.

A +0.02 increase isn't all that that "Intensive" in my opinion.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#2 - 2014-08-21 16:35:15 UTC
A basic Reprocessing Array gains 2% over an NPC station, for the cost of having to fuel a POS. That's quite a lot to pay for an extra 2% yield. Getting the second 2% really seems quite economical, albeit vulnerable, when you think about it in that context.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Friedolin Maulerant
Scrapmetal Unleashed
#3 - 2014-08-21 16:40:22 UTC
BFE wrote:
Does anyone else see the frustrations of using the Intensive Reprocessing Array?!


I don't see it. If profit margins are tight, and they often are, it can be a huge difference when you have to pay 3,7% less for your minerals.

On the other hand power grid and CPU usage doesn't really matter, since you only have to put them online, when you need them. And both fit in a small tower.
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2014-08-21 16:50:31 UTC
Now take that 3.85% extra yield and multiply it by a huge amount of ore mined by an entire alliance and the cost to benefit analysis starts to look quite attractive.

It's not meant to be economical for two or three people in hisec. It's for large groups of players in low/null.
Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2014-08-21 16:53:21 UTC
so you want a couple mil POS module to be 5% better than the multi-billion isk upgrade of an outpost?
Komi Toran
Perkone
Caldari State
#6 - 2014-08-21 17:05:52 UTC
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
It's not meant to be economical for two or three people in hisec. It's for large groups of players in low/null.

I haven't used the array, but isn't reprocessing instant? If so, fuel costs are negligible, as you only online the thing when you have minerals to refine. That makes it economical for anyone with even a modest stockpile of ore.
BFE
Shadow Flight
#7 - 2014-08-21 17:07:26 UTC  |  Edited by: BFE
Rowells wrote:
so you want a couple mil POS module to be 5% better than the multi-billion isk upgrade of an outpost?


You can't build an outpost in a wormhole, for example....

Edit: For that matter, last i checked, you can't build one in lowsec either... And the main post was about the two arrays themselves vs. each other, not an outpost.

Why pay 33.3% more CPU/Power for a 0.02 (3.85%) increase from one array to the other?
Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2014-08-21 17:18:33 UTC
BFE wrote:
Rowells wrote:
so you want a couple mil POS module to be 5% better than the multi-billion isk upgrade of an outpost?


You can't build an outpost in a wormhole, for example....

Edit: For that matter, last i checked, you can't build one in lowsec either... And the main post was about the two arrays themselves vs. each other, not an outpost.

Why pay 33.3% more CPU/Power for a 0.02 (3.85%) increase from one array to the other?

how does that justify the lopsided cost/benefit?
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#9 - 2014-08-21 17:20:06 UTC
BFE wrote:
[quote=Rowells]Why pay 33.3% more CPU/Power for a 0.02 (3.85%) increase from one array to the other?

Why bother with a POS at all for the first 0.02 increase? When you stop to think about it, that really is the bigger of the two burdens.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
BFE
Shadow Flight
#10 - 2014-08-21 17:22:20 UTC
Rowells wrote:
BFE wrote:
Rowells wrote:
so you want a couple mil POS module to be 5% better than the multi-billion isk upgrade of an outpost?


You can't build an outpost in a wormhole, for example....

Edit: For that matter, last i checked, you can't build one in lowsec either... And the main post was about the two arrays themselves vs. each other, not an outpost.

Why pay 33.3% more CPU/Power for a 0.02 (3.85%) increase from one array to the other?

how does that justify the lopsided cost/benefit?

Ok, if you really want to make the cost/beneift more aligned across the board, then lower the Reprocessing Array to a .40-.45. Then the highsec users will either A) pay the costs in empire space, or B) pay the costs of POS fuel blocks. This would then make the Intensive array worth more than the regular one, for the increased cpu/power.

True, the reprocessing is immediate, but in low/null/wh space, you will likely have your tower already max'd out. So to use it, you'll have to offline something that takes time to reonline, in order to use it.
Komi Toran
Perkone
Caldari State
#11 - 2014-08-21 17:39:46 UTC
BFE wrote:
True, the reprocessing is immediate, but in low/null/wh space, you will likely have your tower already max'd out. So to use it, you'll have to offline something that takes time to reonline, in order to use it.

Or, you know, you throw up a small tower when you want to reprocess and tear it down when you're done, at a cost of 30 minutes and 10 fuel blocks. For either.
BFE
Shadow Flight
#12 - 2014-08-21 17:43:08 UTC
Komi Toran wrote:
BFE wrote:
True, the reprocessing is immediate, but in low/null/wh space, you will likely have your tower already max'd out. So to use it, you'll have to offline something that takes time to reonline, in order to use it.

Or, you know, you throw up a small tower when you want to reprocess and tear it down when you're done, at a cost of 30 minutes and 10 fuel blocks. For either.



Wouldn't that negate the whole point of already having a POS anchored, onlined, armed, defended, and already fueled?
Komi Toran
Perkone
Caldari State
#13 - 2014-08-21 17:58:40 UTC
BFE wrote:
Wouldn't that negate the whole point of already having a POS anchored, onlined, armed, defended, and already fueled?

You're starting to get it: There is no point in having an armed, defended, and fueled POS for reprocessing.
Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2014-08-21 18:00:20 UTC
BFE wrote:
Komi Toran wrote:
BFE wrote:
True, the reprocessing is immediate, but in low/null/wh space, you will likely have your tower already max'd out. So to use it, you'll have to offline something that takes time to reonline, in order to use it.

Or, you know, you throw up a small tower when you want to reprocess and tear it down when you're done, at a cost of 30 minutes and 10 fuel blocks. For either.



Wouldn't that negate the whole point of already having a POS anchored, onlined, armed, defended, and already fueled?

Well, then you have some decisions to make. Deathstar, indy POS, or a little of both? what modules will i need for those activities? Is buying the upgraded versions worth the extra isk/pg/cpu for my scale of operation? Do i need a larger tower?

The requirements for the modules were made with that in mind. You might have an argument for lowering some of the fitting requirements, but instead you ask that the entire crius change be flipped on its head.
BFE
Shadow Flight
#15 - 2014-08-22 11:44:50 UTC
Komi Toran wrote:
BFE wrote:
Wouldn't that negate the whole point of already having a POS anchored, onlined, armed, defended, and already fueled?

You're starting to get it: There is no point in having an armed, defended, and fueled POS for reprocessing.


When did I ever say that a POS should be armed, defended, etc for reprocessing only?


Rowells wrote:
Well, then you have some decisions to make. Deathstar, indy POS, or a little of both? what modules will i need for those activities? Is buying the upgraded versions worth the extra isk/pg/cpu for my scale of operation? Do i need a larger tower?

The requirements for the modules were made with that in mind. You might have an argument for lowering some of the fitting requirements, but instead you ask that the entire crius change be flipped on its head.


No, I'm not saying the entire crius change be flipped on its head..... only that the two reprocessing arrays should have more of a difference for the range of cpu/power usage..... Quite the difference than flipping the entire update.....
BFE
Shadow Flight
#16 - 2014-08-22 11:51:11 UTC  |  Edited by: BFE
You are all missing the point... the point is that the two POS reprocessing units are too close in return to demand that much of a difference in CPU/Power......
BFE
Shadow Flight
#17 - 2014-08-22 11:56:45 UTC  |  Edited by: BFE
You are all missing the point... the point is that the two POS reprocessing units are too close in return to demand that much of a difference in CPU/Power......

Should be: ..............Reprocessing Array: .................. Intensive Reprocessing Array: .................Total:
PowerGrid Usage: ......150,000 MW .................................... 200,000MW ............................. +33.3% cost
CPU USage: .....................750 tf ...............................................1,000 tf ................................+33.3% cost
Refining Yield: ....................0.52 ............................................... 0.60 ....................................+15% yield Reproc Array


Ok, so let's amend the original post to this ^^.....
Instead of asking for a 25% increase in yield, we can drop it down to 15%, and still make the difference of 33.3% increased costs more worth it.....

Is that not agreeable?

And no, I'm not talking about an outpost, or stations... we're talking about --> POS <-- arrays only.....

Edit: I suppose this would mainly be for WHs and lowsec then.... True, in nullsec you can claim SOV, and therefore construct an outpost, but in WHs you cannot claim SOV, and therefore not gain any bonuses whatsoever that are wrought in conjunction with it.

Forget the yield increase then on the IRA... just lower the yield of the regular array to make the increase cost of cpu/power to be worth it over the regular array.
BFE
Shadow Flight
#18 - 2014-08-22 12:28:07 UTC  |  Edited by: BFE
*sigh*
Velicitia
XS Tech
#19 - 2014-08-22 12:34:19 UTC
No, because it's still OP when compared to outposts (which should be "the best", bar none -- same as the Hulk in regards to yield).

You have to consider that "Minmatar Outposts are the best" is supposed to be a carrot to the Industrial types to move (back) out to Null. If you make a very cheap POS mod as good as, or better than, said outpost, then what's the point of spending 50bn (or whatever) on upgrades to get the outpost set up?

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
BFE
Shadow Flight
#20 - 2014-08-22 12:47:52 UTC  |  Edited by: BFE
Velicitia wrote:
No, because it's still OP when compared to outposts (which should be "the best", bar none -- same as the Hulk in regards to yield).

You have to consider that "Minmatar Outposts are the best" is supposed to be a carrot to the Industrial types to move (back) out to Null. If you make a very cheap POS mod as good as, or better than, said outpost, then what's the point of spending 50bn (or whatever) on upgrades to get the outpost set up?



Agreed. The Minmatar Outpost is best at reprocessing with its 35% boost to yield. But that means that lowsec and WHs are supposed to get f*&%'d, because they can't claim their SOV and deploy one? No, I should think not.

For ****'s sake people, I"m not saying make the Intensive Reprocessing Array equal to an Outpost.... I'm just saying make it worth MORE than a **** regular Reprocessing Array!!! If you don't want the Intensive increased, then at least lower the regular, so there IS a noticeable difference between the two!

Edit: Censored for language.
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