Science & Industry

I think I saw a list on someone's blog, but it's been a while. It doesn't actually matter.



You aren't competing with them. They're a small, fixed volume supply in a market with an ever increasing volume demanded. The prices for virtually everything (aside for a handful of items that are so rarely used the volume demanded is lower than the fixed supply) are set by the supply produced through invention.


WTS forum, Blueprints channel, contracts, contacts, etc

It's a pain

There's an easy way to see if you're competing with T2 BPOs. Just look at the margin. If it's very small, then you probably are.

The difference is a lot smaller now than it used to be, however.

For materials, they're at most 10% better. (if you use an augmentation decryptor, and they have theirs fully researched) and they don't have the invention cost. (They also have the potential for rounding benefits, with lots of runs. )

There was a list but it was compiled in 2012. I am not looking it up right now but I assume if you Google hard enough you'll find it. I can tell you what I remember of it and my impressions of it, however.

First, the poster saying that you are not competing with T2 BPOs is full of it. All such arguments are based on economic principles that are not justified by looking at the data. The argument that the T2 BPOs can only meet a fixed supply are incorrect. The number of T2 BPOs initially distributed combined with Eve's extraordinary ability to retain players for decades and the relatively small size of the Eve market ensure that a small number of T2 BPOs if used to potential can indeed corner entire sectors of the Market, which was indeed shown by the list. Last year when I was making T2 I did find that knowing which products to make on account of their not being dominated by T2 BPOs was important.

There's a couple of points of good news, however. First, in my experience, it is possible to compete with T2 BPOs, even with the pre-Crius situation. However, your margins will be small, often smaller than T1. You can make money from it, but with more work and less margin. I never did it though because I found T2 products that were not dominated by T2 BPOs and focused there. However, there could be situations where working with these items could be beneficial. For instance, a lot of the T1 produced is sold at Jita to people using those items to make T2. The T2 items are often sold at Jita and then transported by traders to smaller hubs like Rens and Dodixie to be sold at higher prices. This anyway is my explanation for why T1 Meta 0 items sell so well even though they are not often used in game. So if I were to make T2 items competing with T2 BPOs I would look to sell them outside of Jita for better margins.

The other bit of good news is that T2 BPOs have taken a huge hit with Crius. CCP has hinted that they will be taking further hits and may even be removed at some point. T2 BPOs will likely be hit again with the coming invention overhaul. So the picture is getting rosier.

Basically, if you want to make T2, try to concentrate on items that are not dominated by T2 BPOs. Since the list is out of date, Mr. Fuzzwork's suggestion of just looking at margins is a good way to tackle T2. If the margin is good, it is likely not controlled by T2 BPOs and can be suitable for sale at Jita. If the margin is low, take a look at possible sales locations outside of Jita. Othertwise, just expect that the number of acceptable margins for you, as a non T2 BPO holder, will likely increase over time.

/me smells a covert "Eliminate T2 BPOs!" thread...

Of course you pick whatever item gives the best margin/profit/IPH (as you prefer).

My point was simply that what items are profitable has nothing to do with the presence or absence of a T2BPO for the items. That's why I presented those two examples, a profitable item whose production is dominated by BPOs and an unprofitable one with no BPO.

(Just FYI, the groups that mine moon goo just sell it. Why in the world would they discount their goo from the market price in order to put more effort into making less money? But then, of course, Moon Minerals I mine are Free )

I said I was done, but, heh, I'll throw out a post before going to bed.

Saying the profitable items have nothing to do with T2 BPOs is false. You could make the case that their presence is less significant than often supposed, but saying they have no affect is just false.

You do have to put a tiny bit of thought into your examples. Items with smaller base prices tend to have larger margins. Ammo regularly sells at over 30% margin, as if something only costs 50 ISK to make in order to be at all worth making, you'll sell it at 100 ISK. Items that have larger base prices, e.g. battleships, have lower margins. So comparing a cargo expander to a BLOPS has more to do with their utterly different base price. If you compare 2 items that sell for 250K, one T2 dominated, the other not, then you have a point. Not that it would wreck my argument or change my perspective, but you'd have a point. But your choice of items that exist in utterly different market spheres for reasons completely unrelated to T2 BPO presence simply ruins them as examples. You should know this. But now it will be clear.

Yes, most moon mining groups do actually sell their goo. However, not all do all the time obviously. Yes, people do mine stuff and sell it for less than mineral value. However, people do not buy hundreds of millions in goo in order to sell for less than they paid. Perhaps the rare bird does buy all that goo and then mines a battleship for free. However, not many people buy all that crap to make a JF and then mine a whole bloody freighter for free. Yes, most Eve players are stupid. But stupidity of that sort is rare and not a major effect on the market. JFs are made by people to have access to cheap goo or who obtain it through their own efforts and they sell it low to reduce market competition in order to ensure sales because sales volume for JFs would be incredibly low in comparison to builders if everybody could make them at a profit. It's not just because the makers of these 7 billion ISK ships are morons subscribing to the "my time resource gathering is free" nonsense. Give the JF builders a little credit please. They're keeping the market cornered to guarantee sales, and with their current situation taking a loss on the goo value increases sales volume and amounts to more money in the pocket than waiting around forever for their goo to sell.

Gnight man.

Thanks to everyone so far, great discussion and ive picked up a lot

Heres a link to a T2 BPO list.... does it seem right to you?
http://k162space.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/2012-03-06-t2-bpo-profits-1.png?w=590

I notice there are no rigs included.... im thinking of starting with a few of those as i do a lot of exploration and some of those gizmos can be hard to come by on the market

Damn.... TO GOOGLE!!!....

Edit: ....Google is failing me

EditEdit: ....acording to evelopidia there is a BPO for every T2 item... is this true?

Grendell compiled a list of every T2 BPO in game and the thread is worth reading too.


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4671200#post4671200

There is a database entry for every T2 Blueprint because the game uses the same item number for BPOs and BPCs. The only difference is the number of runs.

Item 1320 is the Expanded Cargohold II blueprint. So if you have an item 1320 with infinite runs, you have the BPO. if you have an item 1320 with a different number of runs, you have the BPC.

Item 22431 is the Sin Blueprint. Since black ops ships were released after the introduction of invention, there are no Sin Blueprints with infinite runs (no BPOs in game.) If you successfully invent from a Dominix BPC, you will get an item 22431 with a specific number of runs depending on your decryptor (Sin BPC.)


Invention was introduced at the end of 2006. T2 items which were in game before that time have BPOs. T2 items which were released after that time have no BPOs in game. Off the top of my head, that means Electronic Attack Frigates, Heavy Interdictor Cruisers, Marauders, Black Ops Battleships, Jump Freighters, rigs, and a whole bunch of random modules which are too numerous to try to remember.


Like everyone else in this thread is violently agreeing about: do the math on everything. Just because a BPO exists in game doesn't necessarily mean it is a bad choice to invent. It could still be quite profitable. And just because no BPO exists for an item doesn't necessarily mean the market is not saturated by inventors making poor profits.