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not quite noob question about remote repiar
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Eve Industrialist
Eve industRIaliSt - Dot Com
#1 - 2011-12-09 17:36:16 UTC
Hi. I am not a noob but I have a noob question. I am posting here because I think my chances of getting a helpful answer here are higher than the rest of forums... and isn't everyone a noob about someth8ng in eve? This is a basic, noob to remote repair question.

I need to know about remote repair as relates to repping hulks in high sec due to the recent ccp changes.

If a remote repair (rr) ship is repping a hulk and the hulk gets ganked, does the remote repair ship gain agro from the gankers? What if the hulk "fights back" with drones? Will the rr ship now be red to gankers? If so will the rr module shut off the way they do now if someone rr a ship that is do8ing the ganking?

Basically I would like to know the full rr and agro mechanics of repping a hulk during hulkageddon. (I know rr ship itself can be ganked ... I want to know if it would have to be a suicide gank or if it will draw agro.)
Velicitia
XS Tech
#2 - 2011-12-09 18:19:19 UTC
if the hulk does nothing you get no aggro.
if the hulk shoots back, you'll get a "they're taking aggro" message, and the RR will shut off.
if you turn the RR modules back on, you *should* go red.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#3 - 2011-12-09 18:47:12 UTC
One side point: ganks are designed to pretty much insta-kill the target. If they don't, then Concord will show up and kill them. For your RR to save the Hulk, it would need to cycle partway through their volley. Possible, yes, but it's as much luck as anything.

You're better off just getting a Covie (and the RR alt in another Covie) during Hulkageddon. You'll end up being a less-tempting target (and more insurable) and Covies still mine about 80-90% of the rate that a Hulk does.
Eve Industrialist
Eve industRIaliSt - Dot Com
#4 - 2011-12-09 19:07:10 UTC
Mxzf...

Last hulkageddon I had remote repair and using it defeated 2 groups of destroyers, getting kill mails with drones on the hulk. I have also been told gankers "hate" remote repair and that its the most effective way to stop them, which is why I am researchging it now. Of course Now everyone is saying ganks go for alpha and rr is useless but I still want to research it.
I don't know about the new battlecruisers but rr was nice on the dessys. It looks like if I use remote repair this time I can't get kill mails with the hulk at least because it lo9oks like it will make logi stop or become killable. That is am important fact to know.

Anyone else? Is it correct that I can use logi if I keep offensive modules and drones off the hulk?
Velicitia
XS Tech
#5 - 2011-12-09 19:17:46 UTC
1. dessies had the RoF penalty removed...
2. Tornado

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#6 - 2011-12-09 19:41:24 UTC
To answer your question, yes. If you aggro the guys shooting you the remote repair will stop. To resume the repair you need to click the button to resume, at which point the aggressor can also shoot the remote repair ship.

It's unlikely to backfire, since the ganker will be dead before he can use it, and GCC for the duration of the aggro timer.

However, you ABSOLUTELY AND UNQUESTIONABLY WILL LOSE THE HULK if you're stupid enough to think remote repair will save it.

If you "defeat" them by using RR they will just come back in an alpha-ship and collect the killmail anyway.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#7 - 2011-12-09 20:06:34 UTC

Several addendum's are needed for this post:

First, In regards to RR and aggression. Velicitia is correct in describing how the aggression mechanics work in regards to RR.

RR modules now shut off when the aggression state of the reppee changes. Additionally, your RR modules give you a warning if repping the target will transfer aggression to your ship. So, assuming you rep up your hulk anyway, the two types of aggression you will get are:

1.) If the hulk is a LEGAL target for the aggressors (from Wars, Killrights, theft, etc), you will become a legal hi-sec target to those whom aggress the hulk! In this case, it doesn't matter if the hulk aggresses or not.

2.) If the hulk aggresses, you will become a legal hi-sec target to those whom the hulk aggressored for 15 minutes. There are two considerations here:

a.) Typically, the hulk will be defending itself from a gank, in which case the ships aggressed by the hulk will be Criminally Flagged for 15 minutes. That means if they undock in anything other than a POD concord will melt them.

b.) If you continue to rep the hulk after the engagement, its possible to extend your aggression timer beyond their criminal timer. If this happens, there is a window of opportunity for them to return and legally gank your RR ship.

Essentially, to keep your RR ship safe, make sure the hulk pilot is NOT in a war, and make sure they don't steal or aggress. And if they do any of the above, you get a warning before you rep them, so heed the warning!!!!

Now, mxzf is wrong in the sense that logistics wont help. Logistics will do wonders to thwart most ganks, however it takes more than just logistics. If your mining buddy is too inept or lazy to fit a MSE, DCU, and 2x IF (on exhumers), then don't bother with them. While you can alpha mining barges, a tanked exhumer's SHIELDS should EASILY withstand a full volley even from the most gank-fit Arty Battleship!!
Eve Industrialist
Eve industRIaliSt - Dot Com
#8 - 2011-12-10 03:38:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Eve Industrialist
Hello,

Thanks all for helping me understand how things work.

I would like to say to Khan that I understand that with enough dps, any ship can be taken out. While they could bring more dps, what actually happened last hulkageddon was that one of the two groups i survived convo'd me, told me that was the best trap they'd ever seen, and to mine safe for the rest of hulkageddon.

I think i would enjoy pvp more if every attempt at thinking outside the box -- or even at folding up inside the box with geometric precision -- wasn't met with absolute certianty that even trying to undock is a fail move and sure to lead to certain doom.

Gizznit, thanks a lot to you. I had given up on my current RR trap because i didn't want to risk my RR ship, which is a non-standard RR ship (no boost to RR on it therefore marked as "fail' for RR therefore no one expects it to RR), but you helped me understand that it will only draw agro from people who are getting shot at by concord anyway. so no change there.
This means it's no different than before except for the warning window, and that i need to wait out the agro timer somewhere before coming back for more.

Also, your point about tanked vs un-tanked hulk is something I should have known -- having survived hulkageddon in a tanked hulk yet went boom-by-alpha in an un-tanked hulk later on in "peace" time.
But somehow i didn't think of it until you said it. Possbily because i don't pvp much. You may have saved many people's hulks there Blink
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#9 - 2011-12-10 03:52:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
I don't like 200m Hulks with less then 20k EHP, so this is what I use (actually, I use a faction EM shield amp).

My Orca fits a shield harmonizing link, but sometimes I get a friend to park his mindlinked siege warfare + armor warfare Tengu booster (4 links) in the system.

Don't forget to overheat the hardeners! Even if you only get spooked. Hardeners last a long time before burning out (minutes).


[Hulk, Hisec]
Damage Control II
Power Diagnostic System II

Invulnerability Field II
Viscoelastic EM Ward Salubrity I
Additional Thermal Barrier Emitter I
Invulnerability Field II

Modulated Strip Miner II, Kernite Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Kernite Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Kernite Mining Crystal II

Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I


Hobgoblin II x5
Mining Drone II x5
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#10 - 2011-12-10 04:52:51 UTC

I probably shouldn't post this.... but I think this is a better hulk fit:

Note, if you don't have Shield Upgrades 5, you need a 1% PG implant or use a Meta 4 MSE,

[Hulk, Tanked]
Damage Control II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II

Invulnerability Field II
Medium Shield Extender II
V-M15 Braced Multispectral Shield Matrix
'Anointed' I EM Ward Reinforcement

Modulated Strip Miner II, Kernite Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Kernite Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Kernite Mining Crystal II

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I


Hobgoblin II x5
Mining Drone II x5

It has 29.6k EHP BEFORE Gang bonuses. Its SHIELDS can withstand 2 typical alpha BS shots, and with gang bonuses the ship will survive a third as well. With logi support, it will take 3-4 BC's to gank it. With fitting options like this, the only reason a hulk gets suicide ganked is because they are ignorant or too stubborn to tank their ship!!!
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#11 - 2011-12-12 10:20:40 UTC
Eve Industrialist wrote:
I would like to say to Khan that I understand that with enough dps, any ship can be taken out. While they could bring more dps, what actually happened last hulkageddon was that one of the two groups i survived convo'd me, told me that was the best trap they'd ever seen, and to mine safe for the rest of hulkageddon

The setups above this are the ones you want, as they resist ALPHA (damage per shot). DPS resistance is great from RR, but if the ship isn't there past the first shot, there is simply nothing to repair.

This hulkageddon will see a LOT of Tornado's being fielded. They can do 11k alpha each. If your hulk fit is less than that, you die in one hit. If your hulk is less than 22k, you die in 2 hits landed from 2 ships.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Brom MkLeith
Epsilon Inc
#12 - 2011-12-21 03:40:02 UTC
Outstanding! I'm very happy to see posts like this. Anyone who is serious about resisting Hulkageddon or even the Goonies Gallente ice blockade needs to learn to tank their ships. Your Exhumer Hull costs too much to fly without any protection.

Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

I probably shouldn't post this.... but I think this is a better hulk fit:

Note, if you don't have Shield Upgrades 5, you need a 1% PG implant or use a Meta 4 MSE,

[Hulk, Tanked]
Damage Control II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II

Invulnerability Field II
Medium Shield Extender II
V-M15 Braced Multispectral Shield Matrix
'Anointed' I EM Ward Reinforcement

Modulated Strip Miner II, Kernite Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Kernite Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Kernite Mining Crystal II

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I


Hobgoblin II x5
Mining Drone II x5

It has 29.6k EHP BEFORE Gang bonuses. Its SHIELDS can withstand 2 typical alpha BS shots, and with gang bonuses the ship will survive a third as well. With logi support, it will take 3-4 BC's to gank it. With fitting options like this, the only reason a hulk gets suicide ganked is because they are ignorant or too stubborn to tank their ship!!!

Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#13 - 2012-01-12 20:53:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Gizznitt Malikite
Brom MkLeith wrote:
Outstanding! I'm very happy to see posts like this. Anyone who is serious about resisting Hulkageddon or even the Goonies Gallente ice blockade needs to learn to tank their ships. Your Exhumer Hull costs too much to fly without any protection.

Gizznitt Malikite wrote:


It has 29.6k EHP BEFORE Gang bonuses. Its SHIELDS can withstand 2 typical alpha BS shots, and with gang bonuses the ship will survive a third as well. With logi support, it will take 3-4 BC's to gank it. With fitting options like this, the only reason a hulk gets suicide ganked is because they are ignorant or too stubborn to tank their ship!!!



Here's a guide to help fight back as a miner. Tanking Tips, Logistics Tips, and EWAR suggestions.
Fighting Hulkageddon