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So ... Will the Incursion Changes Buff Hisec

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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#21 - 2014-08-20 06:21:02 UTC
maaaagic missile....

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
DJentropy Ovaert
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#22 - 2014-08-20 06:25:31 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
maaaagic missile....


i attack the darkness
Aiwha
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#23 - 2014-08-20 06:34:57 UTC
admiral root wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
The actual buff comes from the decrease from when an incursion is finished and a new one spawns. That's welcome news in a situation where one ticked off group can kill all the high sec incursions for a weekend.


A much un-needed buff, IMO. If you don't want someone to kill the mothership kill them, instead.



A wardec takes 24 hours to go into affect. You cannot stop somebody from popping a mom.

Sanity is fun leaving the body.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#24 - 2014-08-20 06:40:39 UTC
Aiwha wrote:
admiral root wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
The actual buff comes from the decrease from when an incursion is finished and a new one spawns. That's welcome news in a situation where one ticked off group can kill all the high sec incursions for a weekend.


A much un-needed buff, IMO. If you don't want someone to kill the mothership kill them, instead.



A wardec takes 24 hours to go into affect. You cannot stop somebody from popping a mom.



If only the mothership "room" was a free for all deadspace pocket with nullsec aggression/GCC mechanics (or lack thereof).

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
SkyMarshaller
SkyMarshaller Corp
#25 - 2014-08-20 11:23:09 UTC
From a purely selfish perspective I am looking forward to the new scout sites.

As an Aussie there are very few fleets in our TZ, so these low number sites might mean a few fleets for us to get into (without staying up all night).
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2014-08-20 11:36:05 UTC
I think incursions should spawn in locations all over the map, they should be lowsec and also null, it would create more risk to warrant the high isk involved in incursions and create content while adding a bit more gameplay to low and nullsec, not to mention creating more economy to the market from tge loss of expensive ships and pods

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#27 - 2014-08-20 12:11:47 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
I think incursions should spawn in locations all over the map, they should be lowsec and also null, it would create more risk to warrant the high isk involved in incursions and create content while adding a bit more gameplay to low and nullsec, not to mention creating more economy to the market from tge loss of expensive ships and pods


Sometimes I read something and can't tell if it's trolling or if the poster is actually that clueless lol.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#28 - 2014-08-20 12:28:55 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
I think incursions should spawn in locations all over the map, they should be lowsec and also null, it would create more risk to warrant the high isk involved in incursions and create content while adding a bit more gameplay to low and nullsec, not to mention creating more economy to the market from tge loss of expensive ships and pods


Sometimes I read something and can't tell if it's trolling or if the poster is actually that clueless lol.


I just assume the latter in all cases.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#29 - 2014-08-20 12:35:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Goldiiee
Here you go, for the Nul sec groups they will now be able to bring 50% more toons into a site and still get paid the same per toon. Nul sec VG ship limit brought up to 15.


CCP Fox Four
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4931846#post4931846

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#30 - 2014-08-20 12:48:51 UTC
Goldiiee wrote:
Here you go, for the Nul sec groups they will now be able to bring 50% more toons into a site and still get paid the same per toon. Nul sec VG ship limit brought up to 15.


CCP Rise
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4931846#post4931846


That's not CCP Rise lol.

And that's just a cosmetic change really, it doesn't really help anything as no one does null sec incursions for isk, they are either left to wither and die in a constellation no one cares about or they are super blitzed (50 man fleets in VGs) to get the damn annoying things out of your space. The randomness is a factor plays a part as well, no one is gonna invade someone else space with even 15 cheapish ships to do some PVE when they can just rat (SOV null) or mission (NPC Null) at home.

CCP should take incursions out of null (they are nothing more than annoyances and navigational hazards) and buff low sec incursions to the point where people want to do them and/or fight over them.
RAIN Arthie
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2014-08-20 12:57:55 UTC
If your running incursions for the isk, your wrong. Wait for a group, accomplish nothing, get paid jack shat.
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#32 - 2014-08-20 13:08:06 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Goldiiee wrote:
Here you go, for the Nul sec groups they will now be able to bring 50% more toons into a site and still get paid the same per toon. Nul sec VG ship limit brought up to 15.


CCP Rise
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4931846#post4931846


That's not CCP Rise lol.

And that's just a cosmetic change really, it doesn't really help anything as no one does null sec incursions for isk, they are either left to wither and die in a constellation no one cares about or they are super blitzed (50 man fleets in VGs) to get the damn annoying things out of your space. The randomness is a factor plays a part as well, no one is gonna invade someone else space with even 15 cheapish ships to do some PVE when they can just rat (SOV null) or mission (NPC Null) at home.

CCP should take incursions out of null (they are nothing more than annoyances and navigational hazards) and buff low sec incursions to the point where people want to do them and/or fight over them.

Fixed it, LOL

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
GreenSeed
#33 - 2014-08-20 14:44:32 UTC
Goldiiee wrote:
Having tried these on SISI, I can't imagine anyone thinking these are a lucrative ISK faucet, took nearly 15 minutes to run a scout site for a 3.5mil pay-out with a full-on shiny 5 ship fleet.

Edit; Oh, First! (Following the crowds example)

why would you run then with a shiny ship? those belong in HQs, and are already debatable on Vgs. the shiny mentality is a cancer and the sooner we get rid of it, the better.



anyway...

Scouts are open pockets, so a fleet warping to 100km and flying away can clear the site in about 6 minutes. you do need a heavy tackler and a lot of flying around, but its doable. that should leave about 20 - 25m isk/h accounting for warps, contests and downtime.

medium rail platforms work great that is, Feroxes and Eagles, the problem with eagles is their lack of drones and a utility high. feroxes can do them fine and can tinkertank with one logi (they have the spare high and 25mb for lights). Oracles can also do the scouts the same way they do anom chaining in null, but with no logi, drones or RR things can go bad really fast. (also the 140km cruiser can be a ***** if he escapes blap)

i didn't try using 200km tach with a cloaky warp-in, not sure if that works on hsec, only pulse scorch and tach @100km, 200km blaps could potentially be the most effective way to do the sites and could justify battleship hulls.

Moas/sacs/zealots/mallers and specially Ashimmus can easily fill the tackle slot with a mwd + web. and this is overlooking the huggin/rapiers due to their high SP reqs. i have tried using a shield huggin filling the role of a shield logi and tackler with medium A type RR, and it works fantastic, too bad the SP req is so steep for newbs. it has to be paired with a ship that can cap link with it, and you need egress rigs and armor is screwed off this due to PG reqs on the armor reps.

as far as whats the best time with the crappiest fleet, i found meta fitted beam Mallers (ab prop/2xtc) + ashimmu linked to an augoror to be the best hobo fleet that can run them. TTC was about 10 minutes, could be lower but i had to run the dps and the augoror while testing since i couldn't find a logi pilot in sisi at the time.

and as far as SP expensive brawler fleet goes, vagabonds tinkertanking a 4xlink scimitar can give you extremely fast sites. tinkertanking a logiHuggin getting cap/shield fed with small Atypes also works, but haven't done too much testing on it. (not sure about the speed of the huggin keeping up with the vagas.)

battleships are complete garbage, not only due to :400 signature guns: but also due to warp speed, align speed, etc, etc. also one of the sites has a bomber in it, a real one not a Tama. that thing can put a dent on any BS, and will scare the **** outta any noobfleet running them.

as far as ive tested them, a good 20 - 30 hrs in sisi, spider RR in anything but T3 is not a good idea at all. and for obvious reasons i didn't test T3. (i doubt noobs will be fielding those)

btw, all my testing was done under OGB with a gnosis and t1 links to simulate noobness. mindlinked t2 sensor infolinks can allow changes on fitting thanks to the extra lockrange. and as far as resists goes, 30kbuffer with 100 sig and 10mnAB means missiles do crap damage, and turrets are easily tanked after webs are off the field.

anyway, that's about all the testing i have done so far, hopefully not too many people will wander in the scout sites with their lvl4 boat... that could mean a lot of lapsed subs.

and about profitability, its less than high SP lvl4s, way more than low SP lvl4s. nothing to complain here, they are intended for new players and they work fine.
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#34 - 2014-08-20 15:03:20 UTC
No Greenseed, I started out with a 5 Ishtar setup, with assigned drones to get around the jamming, then I went to command ships (Eos) then to a mixed fleet of BS/Cruisers and Logi, then finally a shiny Machs and Nightmares fleet.

The spider Ishtar and Eos setups worked pretty good but the rats moved off to 100-140km pretty quick making us have to relocate and reset a couple times.

The mixed fleet left the cruiser at a disadvantage, as the few targets that he could maintain range on were dead quick and left him with nothing to do till the next spawn.

The Shiny BS fleet. blapped away through each wave but at a loss of one ship at (For the most part) all times due to permajam.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
R3A50N
Doomheim
#35 - 2014-08-21 00:40:50 UTC
oh i know there are MANY people who use high sec alts to grind incursions for their nullsec/pvp/etc needs. i run incursions quite often, not on this character of course, and i hear many stories about things that happen down in the null regions

they don't need to pop moms anyway, considering the fact that communities have grown so large and so many that rage happens between them
GreenSeed
#36 - 2014-08-21 01:00:58 UTC
Goldiiee wrote:
No Greenseed, I started out with a 5 Ishtar setup, with assigned drones to get around the jamming, then I went to command ships (Eos) then to a mixed fleet of BS/Cruisers and Logi, then finally a shiny Machs and Nightmares fleet.

The spider Ishtar and Eos setups worked pretty good but the rats moved off to 100-140km pretty quick making us have to relocate and reset a couple times.

The mixed fleet left the cruiser at a disadvantage, as the few targets that he could maintain range on were dead quick and left him with nothing to do till the next spawn.

The Shiny BS fleet. blapped away through each wave but at a loss of one ship at (For the most part) all times due to permajam.


the fact that you used assigned sentries on any sort of pve if you had the option of turrets is already too ******** to warrant considering both the results of your testing or you ability to perform them properly.
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#37 - 2014-08-21 01:23:37 UTC
Oh man. You are all such a huge bunch of farming neckbeards. Stick to incursion crofting and stop talking about stuff you don't know about, like wormhole income.

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Robart Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
#38 - 2014-08-21 07:21:11 UTC
Trinkets friend wrote:
Oh man. You are all such a huge bunch of farming neckbeards. Stick to incursion crofting and stop talking about stuff you don't know about, like wormhole income.

Being one of those "farming neckbeards" (great way to avoid personal attacks, there), i would say the same to all the WHers and null-bears who complain about incursion income. isn't it strange how we can both use that same arguement with equal validity of all the clauses on which it depends: Knowing little to nothing (i ran C3-C4s in drakes before the nerf, so sue me), Farming (wait, you mean that people set up multiple billions in dreads for PVP alone, where they can rarely leave?) Neckbeard (not even touching that one.), and yet according to the arguments which you will put forward here, i am wrong? now imagine this. there are a maximum of 3 highsec incursions. there is a servicable max of 4 HQ fleets. each HQ fleet holds 40 people. this means, that at an ideal time (Ha), a total of 480 people can make that much isk per hour. in those conditions, fleets are lucky to push above 100M averages. will you ever see that sort of crowding, no. we took to diplomacy to handle it. can others, who are better take our ISK, yes. Contests are a part of incursions. the better fleet takes all the isk for that site, and goes on, enabling the top end channels to occasionally hit that magical 200M mark. now, each of your dreads to do a capital escalation, could likely be exchanged one to one with an incursion battleship from that top end fleet. except that instead of needing less than 10, you need a total of 30 of them, of various compositions. not only that, but the sansha, much like sleepers, can take out careless ships. but unlike in WHs, where you can directly blap a suspicious ship as soon as you see it, incursioners must beat them to the prize, in order to secure the loot.

then here's another idea. those pilots, typically don't stay long. most people tend to fly about 200M worth, and call that good. your capital escalations are much harder for a bunch of people to rage-pop, and your built in EHP is much higher. also, in general, given the sheer number of WHs, tell me that capital escalations aren't an everyday thing. YOU may not get in on it, but someone, somewhere is. the difference between incursions and that, is that incursioners are nomadic, whereas balance forces your cap fleets to be primarily static.

now tell me, various types of players, what is the ISK per hour you usually get, versus the ones you brag about.
me, for HQs, it's about 95M ISK/H that i usually get. i brag about that one time where we hit 150, running a backlog of excellent sites.
Tajic Kaundur
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#39 - 2014-08-21 07:59:17 UTC
Robart Baboli wrote:
-things-


you realize an incursion runner can run literally hundreds of sites in a day while even me, living in a c6, will run probably 30 sites a week at absolute most, right

there are not infinite sites in a wormhole
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#40 - 2014-08-21 11:28:33 UTC
Tajic Kaundur wrote:
Robart Baboli wrote:
-things-


you realize an incursion runner can run literally hundreds of sites in a day while even me, living in a c6, will run probably 30 sites a week at absolute most, right

there are not infinite sites in a wormhole

You mean 96 sites a day in 24 hours of 15 minutes per site, no bio breaks no stopping to eat and only if 40 other people are willing to run continuously. Exaggerating everything is never a good idea.


Edit; Oops 94 total sites forgot about the 30 minute mandatory down time.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
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