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CCP Response Regarding SOMER Blink Concerns

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Derrick Miles
Death Rabbit Ky Oneida
#321 - 2014-08-21 00:19:09 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Derrick Miles wrote:
CCP Falcon, is there any chance this might inspire a clearer definition of the third party rules and guidelines going forward? As it stands it seems that they are spread all over the place in articles, blogs, and years of forum posts. A big incident like this one can be kind of intimidating for first-time developers when the rules aren't exactly clearly laid out, especially when the result is a ban and the exact cause of the ban is unknown.


This is still to be determined, but something that I'll be pushing for.

Smile


Thanks a lot, I appreciate it!
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#322 - 2014-08-21 00:19:11 UTC
Thank you to the ccp community team for their appropriate and decisive action on this matter. Well done.
Cryo Kool
Tax Holiday
#323 - 2014-08-21 00:23:58 UTC
Xander Phoena wrote:
I am late to this particular thread but I wanted to say that I think CCP's (in particular, Falcon and Leeloo's) response to this situation has been exemplary. They have communicated with the community throughout, they have constantly coordinated with CSM9 and the final outcome was entirely justified. There was one particular part of the final statement posted in the OP of this thread I disagreed with though:

CCP Falcon wrote:
CCP was involved in discussions with SOMER Blink to address our concerns about their products, which included several different ideas for promotions, but none of them had been fully authorized by a CCP representative (notably the legal department).

(emphasis mine)

Whilst I believe Somer utilised some pretty vague and tricksy wording in his original proposal and clearly carried out a final execution of the proposal that was very different to that submitted, it is clear that a submitted proposal was given authorisation by a member of CCP. Whether that person had jurisdiction to sign off on it or not isn't down to Somer but the individual themselves.

To be clear, I believe the final judgement made by CCP in regards to Somer was entirely fair but I also believe that that key point in Falcon's OP is incorrect. That shouldn't take away from their superb handling of this situation overall and I hope this is a benchmark and template should a similar situation arise in the future.

I wanted to bring this up because I have been utterly impressed by Falcon and Leeloo's handling of this situation but this one particular point doesn't ring true for me and having seen others point out the fact on this thread, I felt it important that you heard what this particular CSM representative was thinking. A CSM where all 14 individuals think the same thing all of the time is ultimately pointless after all.

Agreed. Even if the particular promotion had received clearance from CCP, verifying something was in compliance with the rules does not constitute an official endorsement of it. In other words, "approved by CCP" would never have been appropriate to list on their site without explicit permission to do so.
Cameron Freerunner
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#324 - 2014-08-21 00:25:48 UTC
I'm curious how Somer is able to return items and ISK if all of his accounts have been banned.
Lady Naween
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#325 - 2014-08-21 00:28:02 UTC
Cameron Freerunner wrote:
I'm curious how Somer is able to return items and ISK if all of his accounts have been banned.


ffs.. it has been answered so many times.

Somer personally didnt do all the transfer of winnings and isk, she had people who did it for her. and they can still do so! by the hate of Michael why can't people read a little before asking the same frakking question over and over.

*facedesks so hard*

CCP: well done. Two thumbs up in how you handled this. Now go have a beer and some sleep, perhaps some hot man on man on woman porn or something to unwind.. I.. know I will ^^
Cryo Kool
Tax Holiday
#326 - 2014-08-21 00:28:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Cryo Kool
Cameron Freerunner wrote:
I'm curious how Somer is able to return items and ISK if all of his accounts have been banned.

My isk balance was refunded early yesterday my time. Outstanding prizes on contract may be an issue but the actual isk was distributed within ~24hrs of the SOMER site listing the message that they were shutting down.
Accidentally Myname
Myname Replacement Brokerage LLC
#327 - 2014-08-21 00:30:29 UTC
Lady Naween wrote:
Cameron Freerunner wrote:
I'm curious how Somer is able to return items and ISK if all of his accounts have been banned.


ffs.. it has been answered so many times.

Somer personally didnt do all the transfer of winnings and isk, she had people who did it for her. and they can still do so! by the hate of Michael why can't people read a little before asking the same frakking question over and over.

*facedesks so hard*

CCP: well done. Two thumbs up in how you handled this. Now go have a beer and some sleep, perhaps some hot man on man on woman **** or something to unwind.. I.. know I will ^^



Careful you might lose the other eye!
crimsonshank
Percussus Resurgo.
Ribbit.
#328 - 2014-08-21 00:35:11 UTC
1st off I don't believe RMTing was performed here, CCP provides the PLEX/GTC to the third party vendors who in return sell to those that are space poor. CCP was making money from this full circle and closing SOMER down is like cutting your nose off to spite your face! that is lost revenue for CCP that doesn't make sense.

I have played this game on and off for 9 years roughly I have seen it go from B.O.B. online to now Gewns online might as well feed them blue prints and let TMC stay up with its RMT practices just sweep it under the rug like they did with Bob incident.

For the record the CSM is a mistake and a joke its only a free vacation to a select few paid for by the subscribers. Pat yourselves on the back you just provided a fully paid vacation for some other schmuck.
R3A50N
Doomheim
#329 - 2014-08-21 00:36:26 UTC
honestly, rmt problems aside, there's been a lot of hate towards somerblink over the years... in recent memory, there were ddos attacks and bounties on somer and the alliance...so the hate began before the rmt infractions. i think, honestly, it come down to more anger that carebears can make isk through soft means (albeit if luck were on their side) and take away billions from gambling. given enough time, money corrupts all, even fake money we all chase for our respective needs...
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#330 - 2014-08-21 00:37:40 UTC
Xander Phoena wrote:
final execution of the proposal that was very different to that submitted

The proposal was exactly what was carried out, it was just a failure of the reader to "read between the lines" in this case.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#331 - 2014-08-21 00:37:54 UTC
crimsonshank wrote:
1st off I don't believe RMTing was performed here, CCP provides the PLEX/GTC to the third party vendors who in return sell to those that are space poor. CCP was making money from this full circle and closing SOMER down is like cutting your nose off to spite your face! that is lost revenue for CCP that doesn't make sense.

I have played this game on and off for 9 years roughly I have seen it go from B.O.B. online to now Gewns online might as well feed them blue prints and let TMC stay up with its RMT practices just sweep it under the rug like they did with Bob incident.

For the record the CSM is a mistake and a joke its only a free vacation to a select few paid for by the subscribers. Pat yourselves on the back you just provided a fully paid vacation for some other *******.


You should read up on the scheme.

Somer selling GTCs was not RMT.

Somer selling GTCs with a promise 'cash this in for PLEX, and then I'll buy those PLEX off you for ISK at above market rates' was RMT. It's doing in-game trades that favor people who give you RL money.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Lady Naween
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#332 - 2014-08-21 00:37:58 UTC
Accidentally Myname wrote:
Careful you might lose the other eye!


ahh good point.. though i could just rip a new one out of one of my many corpses ^^ spare parts ftw
Jeann Valjean
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#333 - 2014-08-21 00:38:25 UTC
Amazing work by CCP and the CSM to resolve this quickly and as openly as possible.

If we had the tools, I'd build a CCP Falcon monument in Jita. Great to see CCP learning from past mistakes.
DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad
#334 - 2014-08-21 00:41:29 UTC  |  Edited by: DNSBLACK
Mike Azariah wrote:
Told ya

Not being swept under the rug, not being waited out in hopes that it goes away.

Of course into each life some Rain will fall and nobody is totally good or totally evil. We lost a player today. One who was admired for his genius and innovation in making a HUGE pile of isk. He shared some, kept more and a lot of people enjoyed his service

Icarus

What you can take away from this.

1) Nobody in Eve is too big to fail
2) There be a new sheriff in town
3) Publishing communications with CCP is a dangerous step
5) Mike like to mess with OCD folks
6) When one witch is burnt people start looking around for something else to light
7) The polite folks got a lot more answers from Falcon than the screamers (unless you LIKE being called 50 shades of dumb)

m


8} I will never again sell my character for the educational good of the community.
9} CCP hired a real community team in Falcon and leelo and they are standing ready at the gate. So don't try to mess with their pay check and the 25 million CCP profits from the world we created ( Cause this is all they have at this point)
10} I think SONY ONLINE is a better place for Markee and somer to profit from using others hard work.
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#335 - 2014-08-21 00:42:37 UTC
Brahan Seer wrote:
Load of crap Somer did nothing to hurt the health of the community and you all at CCP know it. Goodjob ******* a service the a huge player base has loved. Unsubed again.


Cheers mate. You won't be missed.

Edward Harris wrote:

This is still a fault of CCPs lack of internal communication and you are taking it out on a player. Good job.
My trust in CCP has dropped to zero and I'm sure I am not the only one who feels this is an outrage.


No. Somer made an active decision to try and scrape past the rules. Let's blame the party who made the bad decision, shall we?

This is what actually makes the most angry about the whole thing - the people that act like Somer is the victim in all of this. If Somer hadn't attempted to game the system (for a second freaking time!), none of this would have been necessary. If he hadn't tossed his toys out of the pram, broken the eula deliberately and publicly (re publishing private communications), and had instead let the investigation take its course, he may have been allowed to continue running the gambling site and gotten off with a(nother) warning (assuming CCP could not prove any RMT actually took place).

Somer made the decision. Somer chose to act in bad faith. Somer chose to misrepresent CCP's approval of this scheme.

Somer.Somer.Somer. He may have thought he was too important to Eve to ban. Fortunately for the rest of us, he was wrong.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Xander Phoena
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#336 - 2014-08-21 00:44:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Xander Phoena
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:
Xander Phoena wrote:
final execution of the proposal that was very different to that submitted

The proposal was exactly what was carried out, it was just a failure of the reader to "read between the lines" in this case.


In my opinion the wording was deliberately vague so as to be interpreted in multiple ways. As I read it, it was not executed as submitted. Others such as yourself may disagree. Either way, I believe someone at CCP clearly signed off on it and shouldn't have if a) they didn't have jurisdiction or b) were in any doubt whatsoever as to what was proposed.

That said, I do believe CCP's final judgement on the situation was 100% correct and I stand by the decisions made. Falcon and Leeloo have been heroes throughout and I fully support the final outcome.

www.crossingzebras.com
Hendrick Tallardar
Doomheim
#337 - 2014-08-21 00:44:36 UTC
crimsonshank wrote:
1st off I don't believe RMTing was performed here, CCP provides the PLEX/GTC to the third party vendors


Somer isn't, nor should be mistaken for, a third party vendor of PLEX/GTC sales.

crimsonshank wrote:
closing SOMER down is like cutting your nose off to spite your face! that is lost revenue for CCP that doesn't make sense.


Somer closed their site down. CCP didn't tell them to, per Somer's statement. That's an issue on their end, not CCP's.

crimsonshank wrote:
I have seen it go from B.O.B. online to now Gewns online might as well feed them blue prints and let TMC stay up with its RMT practices just sweep it under the rug like they did with Bob incident.


Citation needed for TMC & GoonSwarm's "RMT practices." Without that evidence, it's simply rumor mongering and hearsay which CCP said not to do in this thread.

crimsonshank wrote:
For the record the CSM is a mistake and a joke its only a free vacation to a select few paid for by the subscribers. Pat yourselves on the back you just provided a fully paid vacation for some other *******.


I'm sorry you are so worked up over a video game you feel the need to throw ad hominem at people who put their free time aside to help the game and it's community out for free. Perhaps you can find, or even make, a better game that isn't so full of issues and problems you seem to be worked up about.
Brahan Seer
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#338 - 2014-08-21 00:47:59 UTC
De'Veldrin wrote:
Brahan Seer wrote:
Load of crap Somer did nothing to hurt the health of the community and you all at CCP know it. Goodjob ******* a service the a huge player base has loved. Unsubed again.


Cheers mate. You won't be missed.



Very original insult, please try again later.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#339 - 2014-08-21 00:48:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
Lady Naween wrote:
Cameron Freerunner wrote:
I'm curious how Somer is able to return items and ISK if all of his accounts have been banned.


ffs.. it has been answered so many times.

Somer personally didnt do all the transfer of winnings and isk, she had people who did it for her. and they can still do so! by the hate of Michael why can't people read a little before asking the same frakking question over and over.

*facedesks so hard*

CCP: well done. Two thumbs up in how you handled this. Now go have a beer and some sleep, perhaps some hot man on man on woman **** or something to unwind.. I.. know I will ^^


Problem is this boils down - if Somer was punished for RMTing then surely the whole organisation should have its assets locked down? if Somer wasn't punished for RMTing then either Somer or CCP has lied about the information as published by Somer or had a serious breakdown of internal organisation/communication which if its on the CCP side would have put Somer in an untenable position - which leads to far more worrying ramifications in either direction.

CCP needs to be very clear that the information in the proposal as posted by Somer was never appraised by them word for word as published on their site or otherwise they have pretty much incidentally orchestrated the downfall of Somer by their own disorganisation and then punished Somer for it.

If Somer has been disingenuous with the information and essentially mislead CCP for his own ends then that absolutely must be clearly explained also.
Ohkewl
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#340 - 2014-08-21 00:49:47 UTC
So the short version is, since Somer shutdown his site CCP couldnt make any more money off him from the increased plexsales, so we now might as well ban him to calm the angry mob.
Good job at damagecontrol CCP. I see devs and csm members are already patting themselves on the back for a job well done.
Also rather funny to see all the hate here towards Somer from all the guys that paid $10 to get into a corp with a 120% SRP program.