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CCP! Please clarify the future plans for WiS!

First post
Author
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#1261 - 2011-12-09 19:06:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Beaches wrote:
Xtover wrote:

What happened with that?..Did all of that work get scrapped?


They changed engines, not only was the old work abandoned but even if they still had it, it would be worthless as they've completely redone the code since. The primary causal factor behind this apparently is that they wanted to begin work on an engine which could be used with WoD.

Xtover wrote:

Didn't they have full stations modeled, and mini-games done?


Yes, I'm pretty sure the fanfest videos are still on youtube somewhere, there were strategy games, gambling, establishments, stations pretty much done. Mothermoon says she was able to scrape a lot of station modeling from the Incarna SiSi build. So they may have that work done here as well but the fundamental problem is that they cannot render multi-user environments with the Incarna engine. Realization of this problem occurred just before or just after the release of Incarna at least to the community although much before Devs questioned in private had revealed that 'they had no idea how they were going to make it work with multiple users'

The end result is, CCP plowed down this dead end road probably with the attitude that problems and hurdles would be overcome later in development. But alas, they cannot, it's not possible with this engine and we're stuck in our tiny cells because of it.


There has been a lot of speculation as to whether there is a tech issue holding up Incarna development. So far, that is all it is, speculation.

We really don't know how Incarna scales yet. We don't know if our Avatar models put a huge amount of strain on it, or if it being linked to our hangers does, or if in fact that this is an issue for the engine at all.

I would say it is much more likely that the lack of comment is due entirely to PR reasons. CCP has a legitimate concern that anything they say about Incarna at the moment is likely to raise a storm of controversy... which is something they very much want to avoid for now.

Much better for them to wait, let people enjoy the new expansion, let old wounds heal. Develop another expansion based primarily around FIS content and Dust Integration and see how things stand. Once the Dust controversy (you know it's inevitable even if it's integration goes perfectly) sorts itself out they should have a pretty good idea if it's safe to broach the subject again.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Xtover
Cold Moon Destruction.
#1262 - 2011-12-09 19:40:17 UTC
Beaches wrote:

The end result is, CCP plowed down this dead end road probably with the attitude that problems and hurdles would be overcome later in development. But alas, they cannot, it's not possible with this engine and we're stuck in our tiny cells because of it.



So they built a rocket before inventing the engine?
Beaches
Doomheim
#1263 - 2011-12-09 19:47:05 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:

There has been a lot of speculation as to whether there is a tech issue holding up Incarna development. So far, that is all it is, speculation.

We really don't know how Incarna scales yet. We don't know if our Avatar models put a huge amount of strain on it, or if it being linked to our hangers does, or if in fact that this is an issue for the engine at all.

I would say it is much more likely that the lack of comment is due entirely to PR reasons. CCP has a legitimate concern that anything they say about Incarna at the moment is likely to raise a storm of controversy... which is something they very much want to avoid for now.

Much better for them to wait, let people enjoy the new expansion, let old wounds heal. Develop another expansion based primarily around FIS content and Dust Integration and see how things stand. Once the Dust controversy (you know it's inevitable even if it's integration goes perfectly) sorts itself out they should have a pretty good idea if it's safe to broach the subject again.



I would like for that to be the only thing to it but one aspect of Incarna which caused so much anger was that it offered no content. Then the 'speculation' about if it could offer content. I don't know anything for certain but I think that CCP could have thrown a few buckets of water on the flames by showing us all the content it would bring. Wouldn't they want to show us that it wasn't a complete failure? Their silence is pretty telling.
Myfanwy Heimdal
Heimdal Freight and Manufacture Inc
#1264 - 2011-12-09 23:42:16 UTC
Revii Lagoon wrote:
WiS, I have never seen such a long and drawn out major expansion of a game in which I literally got bored of it within 2 minutes of walking around. There simply isn't anything to do.

Make a station environment where you can gamble with your friends to pass the time and then I will be more interested. Until they implement an environment in which players can actually do something meaningful, CCP should focus on spaceships for the time being. I mean they can dedicate 10 or so people to WiS just like they did with FiS........


If I wish to gamble then I go to Betfair
If I wish to take a ship and soar amongst the stars I go to EVE

I wouldn't wish Betfair to give me spaceships,
so why would I wish CCP give me gambling?

Pam:  I wonder what my name means in Welsh?Nessa: Why?

Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#1265 - 2011-12-10 00:09:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Doc Fury
I hate to break this to all you Barbie dress-up people, but you are not going to see WIS in any enjoyable/playable fashion anytime soon unless or until:

1) EVE becomes a fat golden goose for CCP again, enabling them to staff and fund 3 different and sophisticated projects simultaneously like they were when Incarna was released.

2) Dust 514 is a huge success.

3) Players stop noticing when CCP takes 2 years off from doing real development of FIS and also keep subscribing during that whole time.

We have what we have now because CCP's management bit off more than it could chew, and gambled that players would swallow a half baked "expansion" that included a ham-fisted attempt at introducing MT into a subscription game. Because there is next to no competition for them in their niche market, it was probably easy for them to believe they could pull it off. Sometimes when you gamble, you lose.

The only reason CCP got so much done with FIS with the Crucible patch in such a short time is because they are fighting to keep their jobs during a bad worldwide economy after receiving lots of bad PR and a significant reduction in their subscription revenue.

For those of you who have only been around a couple of years or less, the TL DR version is this:

CCP promises a lot of stuff, but they only sometimes get around to delivering and finishing said stuff.

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.

oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#1266 - 2011-12-10 05:48:38 UTC  |  Edited by: oldbutfeelingyoung
CCP apparently stopped WIS with the four rooms already made.

They just cut off a lot of expantations for those who were interessed in WIS in an instance
What i want to know what expantations they had,in timeline and release of other stuff related to WIS
thats the least info they could give,even without mentioning if they could or could not continue with the devolepment of WIS



edit for those refering to Space barbies it must be Station barbies that 1 room don,t have a lot of space

R.S.I2014

Amir Darre
DarkFlameMasters
#1267 - 2011-12-10 07:52:26 UTC
I think WIS is a good idea but not to go overboards with pets etc.

I like the idea of a corp room being built into a station, so you can hang out with corp buddies. fun fun

Well yeah thats my 2 cents lol
Grukni
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1268 - 2011-12-10 10:20:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Grukni
Ranger 1 wrote:
Beaches wrote:
Xtover wrote:

What happened with that?..Did all of that work get scrapped?


They changed engines, not only was the old work abandoned but even if they still had it, it would be worthless as they've completely redone the code since. The primary causal factor behind this apparently is that they wanted to begin work on an engine which could be used with WoD.

Xtover wrote:

Didn't they have full stations modeled, and mini-games done?


Yes, I'm pretty sure the fanfest videos are still on youtube somewhere, there were strategy games, gambling, establishments, stations pretty much done. Mothermoon says she was able to scrape a lot of station modeling from the Incarna SiSi build. So they may have that work done here as well but the fundamental problem is that they cannot render multi-user environments with the Incarna engine. Realization of this problem occurred just before or just after the release of Incarna at least to the community although much before Devs questioned in private had revealed that 'they had no idea how they were going to make it work with multiple users'

The end result is, CCP plowed down this dead end road probably with the attitude that problems and hurdles would be overcome later in development. But alas, they cannot, it's not possible with this engine and we're stuck in our tiny cells because of it.


There has been a lot of speculation as to whether there is a tech issue holding up Incarna development. So far, that is all it is, speculation.

We really don't know how Incarna scales yet. We don't know if our Avatar models put a huge amount of strain on it, or if it being linked to our hangers does, or if in fact that this is an issue for the engine at all.

.


A hint: In the fanfest video you can see a Nvidia representative saying that within 5 years it will be possible to render 100 concurrent avatars (quoting the Moore's law). I don't think they can now render more than 5 avatars at the same time on a modern machine with the Carbon engine and its detail.
Beaches
Doomheim
#1269 - 2011-12-10 10:23:30 UTC
I'm watching Locked Up Abroad, I'm hoping the drug smuggling in WiS is a bit like this.
Flamespar
WarRavens
#1270 - 2011-12-11 05:17:48 UTC
Grukni wrote:

A hint: In the fanfest video you can see a Nvidia representative saying that within 5 years it will be possible to render 100 concurrent avatars (quoting the Moore's law). I don't think they can now render more than 5 avatars at the same time on a modern machine with the Carbon engine and its detail.


Hopefully they will reveal the multiplayer environments at fanfest. (With multiple players in them, not just the environment itself"

CCP, care to comment?

You know instead of adding a new feature with the next big expansion, it would great to see existing features brought closer to the original vision that was promoted with each feature.

Like Planetary Interaction 2.0 (remember that dust will only involve null sec planets)
The multi-player establishments.
Null Sec revamp.
The mining and exploration changes that have been talk about forever.
Faction war\fare 2.0

I know the above is just the product of my currently fevered imagination. But how awesome would it be?

oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#1271 - 2011-12-11 09:57:16 UTC
CCP? you are there? hello?

R.S.I2014

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#1272 - 2011-12-11 10:30:21 UTC
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
CCP? you are there? hello?


Not there, not expected to be. I'm gonna write Meissa Anunthiel to see wether they talked about WiS at the meeting. Question

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#1273 - 2011-12-11 10:39:50 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
CCP? you are there? hello?


Not there, not expected to be. I'm gonna write Meissa Anunthiel to see wether they talked about WiS at the meeting. Question



thank you ,if they are allowed to talk bout it.

R.S.I2014

Adamonus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1274 - 2011-12-11 11:38:43 UTC
Well I think the truth is:

If it takes too much time, it will be outdated soon. Burned beyond recognition.

The socializing-mmo aspect has become very important and popular the last years, ccp realized this fast, ok - but if people do not find it in eve, they will seek it in other games ofc.

Maybe it was too early to release CQ...I mean if progress is really stopped now...how long will player like to sit in their "prisons" and doing....yes doing nothing?
So probably the "fire" and enthusiasm for/about WIS will be as fast over as it started..if nothing more is "feeded" within next year..

To say: "WIS developements are stopped" (and yes I personal believe that because its a little bit too silent about CCP chilliad - who was officially announced as the "CQ-pioneer") could be dangerous at this time, if all CCP-created community expectations are just meeting up developement stagnations (no matter which way)

Gevlin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1275 - 2011-12-11 12:29:00 UTC
From what I read Incarna is at 15 to 20% of its original crew but still working slowly on its original design.

Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#1276 - 2011-12-11 12:34:25 UTC
Personally, I would say stop trying to make the tech superduper awesome, and just go for solid mechanics and then, if you must, go for graphics gee-wizzery.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#1277 - 2011-12-11 12:36:56 UTC
Gevlin wrote:
From what I read Incarna is at 15 to 20% of its original crew but still working slowly on its original design.




fine with me,but its speculation.

R.S.I2014

oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#1278 - 2011-12-11 13:07:54 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Personally, I would say stop trying to make the tech superduper awesome, and just go for solid mechanics and then, if you must, go for graphics gee-wizzery.





about solid mechanics ,CCP made crucible a first step towards a solid mechanics playable EVE
they done this in 6 weeks ,according to CCP itself

R.S.I2014

viziel
Sarum Industrial Cartel
#1279 - 2011-12-11 13:24:09 UTC
I WANT WiS. I'm not a fan of pvp, could care less about it. The more pve content the better. And ya, I know EvE isn't a pve game. But welcome to the sandbox, its what we make it.

I WANT WiS to be functional. I have CQ now, I dont use it, because after the initial usage you realize that there is nothing offered but I believe in the concept of it and I REALLY appreciate the devs expanding the game in a new direction.

We have seen some of their ideas for WiS, and we know that Dust is coming. This only seems natural. The amount of complaining to me (and this is only from my perspective of the game) seems immature.

I've put in my .02ISK
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#1280 - 2011-12-11 13:43:22 UTC
hmmm Dust,did i pay for it? hmmm no!!!
and still people are happy with Dust ,but not happy with WIS for EVE on the PC

R.S.I2014