Crime & Punishment

You are 100% correct.

We can only help those who will help themselves. Some will evolve, some will not. Those that do soon see the reality, the beauty, that sets this game apart from the rest of the cookie cutters.

Season 3, episode 7.

Best show ever.

Nothing wrong with a B5 reference

I'll work up a draft of some rules. Could be a fun event if done right.

We'll call it.........."Freighter Ball"?

The white knight song, perfect https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oh66kDox4R0

It's fun to figure out ways to play the game?

I mean, if the logi thing catches on, gankers will have a new challenge to overcome (thankfully, a player created one rather than a CCP "Save the stupids" game change).

Repping a neutral generates a suspect flag if and only if the neutral is a legal target in a limited engagement.

So if I gank Bob, and Bob does not shoot back, Alice can rep Bob without a yellow card.

If Bob returns fire on me via legal retalliation to my criminal attack, Alice will not be able to rep Bob without going suspect. Alice's remote assistance modules will complete their current cycle then turn off (if Alice has green safety) or complete their current cycle, then reactivate earning Alice a yellow card if her safety is red or yellow.



For what it's worth: 'white knights' have plenty of available tactics, but the main one is teaching the prey dilligence. Something that requires the prey to be competent, not just the WKs.

To counter the above, if I were going to gank it, I would simply bring a suicide blackbird or gryphon. After the logi gets jammed, he does have to manually relock and re-engage reps, so that may help out a bit.

Honestly, I would pick another target.

Going back into EFT, a well-skilled and purpose-fit Griffin could jam that thing out at like a 90% success rate, and even doing something clowny like squeezing double ECCM onto the Basilisk still only cuts that down to 50%. Considering how cheap a Griffin is and that the gankers can just let the Griffin go first and wait to see if jams land before they start shooting, it sounds like a pretty serious counter.

That same Griffin also has like an 80% success rate against a Falcon, and it would definitely be able to lock and jam a Falcon faster than the Falcon could decloak and lock a Catalyst. That's...definitely something I'm going to have to look into. I guess this thread has been productive!


Edit: also if you are accusing other people of being ignorant because they're discussing something as well-explored as suicide jams then lol

From what I've seen, they spend most of their time hating on the people who tell them their fits are awful, and they could vastly improve them with the simple addition of a DCU II (or using something other than M0 Multispec mods on a "jam the flashy reds griffon")

Confirming problems with this idea:

"Members Of The White Knight Community" tend to be totally awful at every single aspect of EVE mechanics. I'm not trolling, being rude, or trying to start a flame war - but they literally tend to be the worst players that I have ever engaged. They tend to fly massive fail fits, have serious issues with concepts such as locking onto targets, shooting at targets, basic game mechanics, or anything else needed to even have a chance at a successful fight. They also tend to be motivated by ideas they have come up with that the game client itself does not recognize.

Other problems:

Self-Interest. As you can see from just typing my name into Zkillboard, almost every single miner I encounter is thinking about one thing: how much ISK can I make per hour while not having to be at the keyboard in the first place. Everything else is irrelevant, from fitting any type of defense, from paying attention to what is going on in the first place.

Attention Span. Fighting back against gankers requires use of the EVE client. White-Knights and Miners tend to be AFK, watching Netflix, in the bathroom, or any activity that involves not using the EVE client. When it comes to miners, and I rarely say this - I wish that CCP would do something. The simple that that I can grab a barge, find a belt with two high-volume rocks, press f1 on one of them, f2 on the other, and then stop paying attention to EVE 30-45 mins and generally make a in-game profit is just sad to me. If there were changes made to make mining a much more "active" profession, not only would the bot-mining community be damaged (which I think we all see as a good thing) but miners themselves would find themselves actually engaging in defending themselves simply due to having to be at the keyboard in the first place :P

Fun: As a ganker, I don't have to wait on anyone to generate content or "play" with. If I feel like getting some action, I undock and go find someone to shoot - and rarely does it take me more then 5 mins to find something fun to shoot. The "White-Knight" is limited to waiting on me or other gankers before anything can happen - this triggers the above issue (Attention Span) and they then give up, hop back into a untanked Hulk, and watch netflix for another hour before exploding again.

Toxicity Of Community: With exceptions (I know a few "White-Knights" who are fun people, always give a GF in a local, and are a blast to talk with) - "White-Knights" tend to be motivated by anger, rage, hurt feelings, and a rather limited and immature view on how EVE works in the first place (One only need to consider the popular arguments of "YOU SHOULD GO TO LOW SEC", "MINING SHIPS CANNOT DEFEND THEMSELVES", "HONOR", "FAIR-FIGHT", etc) . This results in a self-defeating situation - players who do not suffer from the earlier issues (Overwhelming self-interest, short attention span, understanding of game mechanics) and who really just want to have some PVP fun make contact with "Anti-Ganking" groups, and then run away from them as quickly as possible due to the quality of communications in their communities. Other members of the New Order can vouch for me on this one, many of our members start off as "White-Knights" and simply grow tired of being part of a community known for little more then an obsessional with homosexual acts, e-rage, "honor", tears, and players who have no idea how EVE even works in the first place and this results in them joining us and commenting on how refreshingly fun and well-educated most members of the New Order tend to be.

In closing - I personally do not understand how spending hours of my game time hunting down members of ganking groups and managing to get myself in a position where I could "save" a target that is likely fit in a totally silly way and not even at the keyboard in the first place would be in any way "fun" - but I respect all forms of emergent gameplay. The real issue that I see with the failure of the "White-Knights" to ever accomplish anything of worth can only be solved by other mature and intelligent players considering that style of play as "fun" coming together - and the simple reality is that I don't know (with a few exceptions!) any mature and intelligent players who would consider it fun :P

And finally, I cannot find the original post - but someone on these forums once brought up what is another serious issue with the "Anti Ganker" concept - who really wants to spend their time "defending" people who have not realized that "Anti-Ganking" is something that can be taken care of by one person - the target. Using advanced techniques such as:

* watching local
* being at keyboard
* using intel channels
* fitting a tank
* using d-scan

will result in your chances of being ganked being reduced to a pretty tiny amount. After all, who wants to help players who cannot even be bothered to learn these very simple techniques?