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I have a question For people that say they will never go to Null or lowsec
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Galehund
The Right Corp
#161 - 2011-12-09 17:34:31 UTC
Crumplecorn wrote:
Galehund wrote:
The question is flawed, as it generalises peoples objective in game down a certain path.
No it doesn't.


Could you expand on those thoughts?


More Questins
"The OP" wrote:

Why is it you play EvE if you take no larger roll in the game, (this is not a Y U NO PVP question)


How can you decide and know what another persons roll and ideas are about a game, be it singleplay or mmo (a mmo is just a game with vastly improved AI aka humans)?

"The OP" wrote:

You gather large sums of isk but in turn do nothing with it most people have a goal while getting isk be it a new mission ship, a titan or SC, help funding a corp project, funding for playing the markets.


How do you know what another person is doing in game if you have no contact with said person, how do you know they have no projects, how do you know they don't buy stuff?
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#162 - 2011-12-09 17:39:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Crumplecorn
Galehund wrote:
Could you expand on those thoughts?
Already did earlier in the thread.


Galehund wrote:
"The OP" wrote:
Why is it you play EvE if you take no larger roll in the game, (this is not a Y U NO PVP question)
How can you decide and know what another persons roll and ideas are about a game, be it singleplay or mmo (a mmo is just a game with vastly improved AI aka humans)?
Since he specifically specified peopel who do not play a larger role, it is not presumption to ask why they do not play a larger roll.

Galehund wrote:
"The OP" wrote:
You gather large sums of isk but in turn do nothing with it most people have a goal while getting isk be it a new mission ship, a titan or SC, help funding a corp project, funding for playing the markets.
How do you know what another person is doing in game if you have no contact with said person, how do you know they have no projects, how do you know they don't buy stuff?
Because he specifically specified people with no projects and who do not buy stuff.

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Igualmentedos
Perkone
Caldari State
#163 - 2011-12-09 17:49:58 UTC
Anya Klibor wrote:
You know why? Because it's my form of griefing.

Think about it. Null sec is pushing hard at the CSM to have everyone move to null sec. Why? Because they don't understand politics. The only time they start shooting each other is when they want a little more space, or if someone pisses someone off. There was a good thread about people needing to stop with these non-aggression pacts. They complain day-in and day-out that they have "no one to shoot", and completely ignore the fact that they [b]have[/i] ships to blow up and people to shoot. They just need to stop being a bunch of dumbasses.

So, if they want to try to force me into their playground, then I'll stay away. They can watch me, with all my sexy, expensive ships. They can dec me, I'll evade. They can gank me, I'll escape. They expect us all to be carebears lacking knowledge. If anything, the fact that they whine so hard is proof that they are the carebears lacking knowledge.

Also, all my clones are like..3 bil alone. F*ck your bubble camping ret@rd friends.


Easily the best post in this thread.

Nullbears are obnoxious and unpleasant children.
Igualmentedos
Perkone
Caldari State
#164 - 2011-12-09 17:51:08 UTC
Crumplecorn wrote:
Valei Khurelem wrote:
This is a sandbox game, live with it, there are players different from you.
Don't mind me, just pointing out someone else who didn't even understand the question.


Carebears know why he's asking. He's upset and butthurt that some people just don't play the way he does.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#165 - 2011-12-09 17:51:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
If only CCP would remove dependency on gates. Give ships the ability to dial in a system to system hyperwarp, "Star Trek/Star Wars style", and the game will become rich with opportunity and PVP. Everybody in 0.0 will get the targets they cry for, and everybody else gets to reach out.
We already have those, they're called 'cynos'. And ever since, hisec duders have been flooding in with their caps and black ops gettin ready to make big mone- oh wait no. "hyperwarp' as you called it was possibly the biggest factor in killing opportunities for nullsec industry. Why buy mins and mods that was produced with heavier costs in your home territory when you can jump it in from Jita in 20 minutes? Why take in thousands of carebears into your alliance when a few guys with jump freighters do the same job but with less overhead and less incentive to invaders?

So what's your solution again? Give all ships 'hyperwarp'' ability?

Quote:
Is CCP simply catering to nuillbears while the nullbears, lording it up deep and safe in 0.0, are pointing their fingers at highsec and blaming everything on highsec carebears?

Are there too many nullsec CSMs telling CCP that everything is fine the way it is, while thinking of their moongoo ISK faucets and sanctums and laughing inside? Is it all about crying for more targets, cursing the carebears in highsec, while in the usual form of "wanting your cake and eating it too", they want more people in 0.0 space, but only on their own terms: as renters, cannon fodder, and targets?

Carebears, as a general rule, go where the money is. If, after cost of ships lost and/or time spent on other commitments, if they got more mining veldspar in low/null then they did in highsec, they'd do it. Same with low/null manufacturing. Same with low/null PI until recently. For example, when Providence was an open source of 0.0-grade belt rats and pre-nerfed anoms for anyone, tens of thousands of ambitious carebears felt the reward was worth the risk. Now carebears who want more isk do incursions simply because they pay out better then anything Providence currently has to offer.

CCP needs to adjust the the rewards for hi/low/null in order to get players to take risks.
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#166 - 2011-12-09 17:52:50 UTC
Igualmentedos wrote:
Carebears know why he's asking. He's upset and butthurt that some people just don't play the way he does.
Carebears always think that reality is defined by what they think it is. They think this about EVE and about other people.

It's like they are all solipsists or something.

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Pavel Bidermann
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#167 - 2011-12-09 17:53:29 UTC
To say the high sec indi-player deosn't contribute to the game is like saying only the sand makes the desert. There's so much more to it. I solo mined for a good year and a half when I started. I got into industry and marketing while doing so. That's how a lot of that stuff gets there m8.

I can only assume a lack of experience with high sec when I see how "high sec is safe" and "there's no gate camps in high sec". I have flown through or avoided more gate camps this week in high sec than I have ever encountered in low sec. Just look at the daily ship kills in The Forge alone. It curb stomps all the null sec activity put together. A lot of days Jita has more kills than the null sec top 5 kills systems. This whole "kill the miners thing doesn't actually change the numbers much since that's always been there. There's just a bit more activity right now. Null could be better, but the pilots as a whole only want to do one thing in null, so its no fun for anyone who doesn't want to play the same way they do.

I'm currenty returning to high sec from low sec and null because its so boring in null. I had more fun in hisec and frankly the move by itself has been more fun than I've had in-game for months. I'll probably be going back to being a solo industrialst again for that matter.
Forum Fighter
Doomheim
#168 - 2011-12-09 18:00:11 UTC
I would go to nullsec if the pipes weren't camped. Cry

Quit crying about null being empty while you're camping the freakin pipes!

Bearer of the 1600mm Tinfoil Hat™
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#169 - 2011-12-09 18:00:28 UTC
Pavel Bidermann wrote:
To say the high sec indi-player deosn't contribute to the game
OP wrote:
This is not for the high sec indy or mining type of people

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Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#170 - 2011-12-09 18:03:40 UTC
Forum Fighter wrote:
I would go to nullsec if the pipes weren't camped. Cry

Quit crying about null being empty while you're camping the freakin pipes!

*stop defending space*
*get rich on docking fees and buy orders for trit*

hell yea
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#171 - 2011-12-09 18:18:16 UTC
Crumplecorn wrote:
Igualmentedos wrote:
Carebears know why he's asking. He's upset and butthurt that some people just don't play the way he does.
Carebears always think that reality is defined by what they think it is. They think this about EVE and about other people.

It's like they are all solipsists or something.


Some carebears in this thread are making assumptions about the OP who asked the question, you're making assumptions about every single carebear in Eve.
Myrdraeus Keaunt
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#172 - 2011-12-09 18:26:04 UTC
Forum Fighter wrote:
I would go to nullsec if the pipes weren't camped. Cry


^^^^ Wants her pipes cleaned.
Galehund
The Right Corp
#173 - 2011-12-09 18:33:25 UTC
"The OP" wrote:

You gather large sums of isk but in turn do nothing with it most people have a goal while getting isk be it a new mission ship, a titan or SC, help funding a corp project, funding for playing the markets.


He is assuming they are gathering large sums and have no goals, how does he know that?

Another answer to his question is another question: Why do people play games?
Baden Luskan
Freeworlds Collective
#174 - 2011-12-09 18:36:42 UTC
Mr Kidd wrote:
Ingvar Angst wrote:
Take no part in the game?

You mean take no part in the game that you think they should. They're taking part in incursions, as a part of your definition... that's certainly a part of the game they're taking part in.

Your bias... it's leaking on the carpet.


Agree with this. This game is many things. People need to stop assuming that their game is the only game to be played.


I totally agree, but staying in high sec and never finding out what 0.0 life is like staying in the starting zones your whole life in WoW. At least in my opinion.
Pavel Bidermann
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#175 - 2011-12-09 18:36:57 UTC
Crumplecorn wrote:
Pavel Bidermann wrote:
To say the high sec indi-player deosn't contribute to the game
OP wrote:
This is not for the high sec indy or mining type of people


I have filled the rolls of OPs A-a3 for about 2 years of game time. Sorry you don't feel I'm qualified to answer. I have simply been in the position stated by the OP plus I have been in the rolls of the indy miner/industrialis, null sec pvp, low sec pvp, low/ null sec miner and exploration, scouting, logi, fleet, gang, corp member, corp founder, etc. Sorry if that overlapped and was a problem for you. I built my first corp having raised the capital to do so by solo mining in an instrial ship 6 days a week for a minimum of 3 hours a day. That was not easy. 1 1/2 hours per load of ore.
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#176 - 2011-12-09 18:44:34 UTC
Baden Luskan wrote:
Mr Kidd wrote:
Ingvar Angst wrote:
Take no part in the game?

You mean take no part in the game that you think they should. They're taking part in incursions, as a part of your definition... that's certainly a part of the game they're taking part in.

Your bias... it's leaking on the carpet.


Agree with this. This game is many things. People need to stop assuming that their game is the only game to be played.


I totally agree, but staying in high sec and never finding out what 0.0 life is like staying in the starting zones your whole life in WoW. At least in my opinion.

Its more like playing wow on a pve server without ever entering a battleground, arena or enemy faction city. Which is not super unusual.
Highsec has a lot of stuff in it. Seeing it as just a starter zone is missing the point entirely.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#177 - 2011-12-09 18:46:45 UTC
I think it has been mentioned before, but I will paraphrase.

For most living in empire, and for quite a few in null, the game is about risk / reward.
Everyone has to make ISK one way or another to fund whatever they are doing in game.

And most players, rather the smart players, will gravitate towards the highest reward to risk ratio for that ISK generation.
Naturally, PvP does not factor into that equation, since it is based on a whole different reward system.

But as stated above, even PvP'ers need some kind of ISK stream to fund their activites.

It boils down to the fact that the nullbears (and yes, I have lived in 0.0 and wh's for extended periods of time previously) are unhappy that the reward to risk ratio is weighted currently towards high sec activities, and they will continue to whine until CCP alters that reward to risk ratio until it is more beneficial economically to live in 0.0 compared to high sec.

CCP would have to change a ton for that to happen. (ie. NEVER)

So null bears, suck it up, create an high sec mission runner/ industrial alt/ Incursion runner/ trader and move on with your Eve life.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#178 - 2011-12-09 18:46:51 UTC
Igualmentedos wrote:
Anya Klibor wrote:
You know why? Because it's my form of griefing.

Think about it. Null sec is pushing hard at the CSM to have everyone move to null sec. Why? Because they don't understand politics. The only time they start shooting each other is when they want a little more space, or if someone pisses someone off. There was a good thread about people needing to stop with these non-aggression pacts. They complain day-in and day-out that they have "no one to shoot", and completely ignore the fact that they [b]have[/i] ships to blow up and people to shoot. They just need to stop being a bunch of dumbasses.

So, if they want to try to force me into their playground, then I'll stay away. They can watch me, with all my sexy, expensive ships. They can dec me, I'll evade. They can gank me, I'll escape. They expect us all to be carebears lacking knowledge. If anything, the fact that they whine so hard is proof that they are the carebears lacking knowledge.

Also, all my clones are like..3 bil alone. F*ck your bubble camping ret@rd friends.


Easily the best post in this thread.

Nullbears are obnoxious and unpleasant children.



Most of those "how to avoid bubble camps" tips are good, but somewhat misleading. Every time some makes such a post, I would take an alt into 0.0 using any tips that were new to me, and yes, you can go to 0.0 and avoid MOST of the bubble camps, but that's for dumb bubblers and a good bubbler is still going to get you eventually.

"Eventually" equals "going to null is feeding your ISK to campers" . And because it means just that, people choose not to go.

Using wormholes - and hey it's not always easy I once had some big WH presences try to hunt me down (pays to have grav caps and find out when their best prober is not online through the information you can glean from their own killboards) - but I have a ship from Spring of 2009 that I have been using to get in and out of 0.0 and only once was it caught in a WH bubble that was not being watched (but they didn't expect a BC to do over 1000 ms already aligned on it's SS - why do the so-called "leet" PVPers think that everybody else is automatically stupid?).

I like the last statement, and could agree that most players don't want to feed ships to the bubbletards.

The usual methods for avoiding bubble camps make for a game that is as boring as mining, but mining has a predictable positive outcome. A very good bubbler WILL get you, and that predictable negative outcome means that people are not going to feed ships to them no matter how loud they cry about "carebears".

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#179 - 2011-12-09 18:50:33 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
I think it has been mentioned before, but I will paraphrase.

For most living in empire, and for quite a few in null, the game is about risk / reward.
Everyone has to make ISK one way or another to fund whatever they are doing in game.

And most players, rather the smart players, will gravitate towards the highest reward to risk ratio for that ISK generation.
Naturally, PvP does not factor into that equation, since it is based on a whole different reward system.

But as stated above, even PvP'ers need some kind of ISK stream to fund their activites.

It boils down to the fact that the nullbears (and yes, I have lived in 0.0 and wh's for extended periods of time previously) are unhappy that the reward to risk ratio is weighted currently towards high sec activities, and they will continue to whine until CCP alters that reward to risk ratio until it is more beneficial economically to live in 0.0 compared to high sec.

CCP would have to change a ton for that to happen. (ie. NEVER)

So null bears, suck it up, create an high sec mission runner/ industrial alt/ Incursion runner/ trader and move on with your Eve life.



Or they could simple stop killing everything that moves for no reason.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#180 - 2011-12-09 18:54:10 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
ICCP would have to change a ton for that to happen. (ie. NEVER)

Hehe