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How to fit Amarr frigates for low-level PvE combat?

Author
Aureus Rosebud
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2014-08-19 09:30:45 UTC
Hello!

New Amarr player here. I'm currently doing the first set of tutorials, and so far it has gotten me a line of frigates suited for various purposes, like a Magnate for exploring, a Sigil for hauling etc. While I think I've got an OK handle on how to fit my exploration and hauling vessels, I have no idea of how to fit a combat vessel.

Advice on how to (cheaply :)) outfit a frigate for PvE combat would be greatly appreciated. I've got the Tormentor, the Executioner, and the Punisher to choose from.

Cheers,


Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#2 - 2014-08-19 10:05:54 UTC
Lasers in the highs.
Cap booster and an after burner or a micro warp in the middle
Tank and heat sinks in the lows.

Rigs you might have to use for fitting .
Aureus Rosebud
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2014-08-19 10:24:19 UTC
Awesome, thanks!

Any type of laser in particular? I seem to be able to use a few varieties with my current skill levels.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#4 - 2014-08-19 11:01:19 UTC
You could try something like this:

[Punisher, Newbie PvE]

Emergency Damage Control I
Small 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I
Small 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I
Prototype Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane I

Experimental 1MN Afterburner I
Small Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 400

Small Focused Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Multifrequency S
Small Focused Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Multifrequency S
Small Focused Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Multifrequency S
Small Diminishing Power System Drain I

Small Nanobot Accelerator I
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Small Ancillary Current Router I

or this

[Punisher, Newbie Kiting PvE]

Emergency Damage Control I
Small 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I
Small 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I
Prototype Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane I

Experimental 1MN Afterburner I
Small Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 400

Small Focused Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency S
Small Focused Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency S
Small Focused Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency S
[Empty High slot]

Small Nanobot Accelerator I
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Small Ancillary Current Router I


No promises, but they're probably overtanked enough to be safe while you figure out what you're doing. Consider downloading a 3rd party fitting tool like EFT or pyfa to help you decide what to fit

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Aureus Rosebud
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2014-08-19 11:04:40 UTC
Thanks! I suppose the Punisher is the go-to ship in this instance then.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#6 - 2014-08-19 17:27:05 UTC
You could easily make a competent Tormentor or Executionor fit. I put up a punisher fit simply because old (pre ship rebalance) biases die hard.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

erg cz
Federal Jegerouns
#7 - 2014-08-20 08:14:36 UTC  |  Edited by: erg cz
If you have at least some drone skills Tormentor will serve you better in PVE. Beginners PvE is much more about range tanking (so use beams and drones), than about active armor tanking (pulse lasers)

Also note, that cap boosters will bankrote you if you plan to use PvE as your ISK income.
Aureus Rosebud
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2014-08-20 08:48:58 UTC
How to choose from the many available types of lasers and scout drones, then?

I know that the main difference between pulse and beam lasers is their optimal range, but other than that there are many low-skill varieties to choose from.
Marc Durant
#9 - 2014-08-20 09:13:19 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
[Punisher, Newbie PvE]

Emergency Damage Control I
Small 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I
Small 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I
Prototype Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane I

Experimental 1MN Afterburner I
Small Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 400




Are you SERIOUSLY telling a newbie that he needs to double rep his frigate with navy cap booster for lvl 1 missions stuff? Really?



OP, here's a few things to consider.

- lvl 1 missions (generally what you'll use a frigate for) don't really hurt at all, as long as you stay at range a bit (10+km), you might not even dip into armour for most of them
- double repping is generally a PVP thing but not so much for PVE as it's horribly inefficient which, given that you use cap hungry lasers, just doesn't make sense
- using a cap booster in PVE can make really good sense on larger ships because cap recharge and usage doesn't scale too well when you go bigger, for frigate in pve you're pretty much fine even as a newbie with terrible cap related skills.
- speed will lower incoming damage from missiles and can, if used right, lower/nullify incoming turret dps so don't necessarily rule out the faster Executioner, even more so as lvl 1 missions really don't hurt much
- while you could use a frigate for lvl 1 missions a destroyer is just so much better at it due to increased dps, range and tracking. they use the same modules and you get one for free by doing the adv. military career tutorial



Having said all that, have a look here. Just replace the base modules with better, more expensive, ones where you can.


[Punisher, Newbie]
Small Armor Repairer I
Heat Sink I
Heat Sink I
Tracking Enhancer I

1MN Afterburner I
Cap Recharger I

Small Focused Beam Laser I, Multifrequency S
Small Focused Beam Laser I, Multifrequency S
Small Focused Beam Laser I, Multifrequency S
[empty high slot]

Small Capacitor Control Circuit I
Small Capacitor Control Circuit I
Small Capacitor Control Circuit I



The rigs are optional, they make your life easier but cost money and since you'll upgrade from your frig fairly quickly that may not be logical to use if you're on a budget. There's no resists in there but as said lvl 1 mission don't hurt as they're newbie friendly so you might as well add damage and range/tracking mods. It uses beams for increased range, pulses do more damage but force you closer in, this means that you will get hit harder and also you'll have to move around more to get into range. Because of that the general consensus is that you're just better off with long range weapons (this can change once you get T2 pulses with scorch ammo).

Yes, yes I am. Thanks for noticing.

Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#10 - 2014-08-20 09:22:59 UTC
Aureus Rosebud wrote:
How to choose from the many available types of lasers and scout drones, then?

I know that the main difference between pulse and beam lasers is their optimal range, but other than that there are many low-skill varieties to choose from.

for frigates, ligt drones and small lazers, use the compare tool to decide what atributes you want to use
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#11 - 2014-08-20 09:32:48 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Aureus Rosebud wrote:
How to choose from the many available types of lasers and scout drones, then?

I know that the main difference between pulse and beam lasers is their optimal range, but other than that there are many low-skill varieties to choose from.


Best advice I can give you is to download a fitting program like EFT or pyfa.

Very simply:
Each gun class (Frigate, Cruiser, Battleship) has two types (Long range or Short) which each have three sizes (Small Medium Large) which each have 5-14 meta levels.

Higher meta level = generally better item but more expensive (meta level 5 is T2 and steps out of the progression)
Larger the size = higher damage and range, but lower tracking and higher fitting cost
Long Range = Lower damage and tracking

Marc Durant wrote:
Are you SERIOUSLY telling a newbie that he needs to double rep his frigate with navy cap booster for lvl 1 missions stuff? Really?

The navy cap booster was an accident and should be a normal 200, and I mentioned that the fits were overtanked.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Marc Durant
#12 - 2014-08-20 10:00:06 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Aureus Rosebud wrote:
How to choose from the many available types of lasers and scout drones, then?

I know that the main difference between pulse and beam lasers is their optimal range, but other than that there are many low-skill varieties to choose from.


Best advice I can give you is to download a fitting program like EFT or pyfa.

Very simply:
Each gun class (Frigate, Cruiser, Battleship) has two types (Long range or Short) which each have three sizes (Small Medium Large) which each have 5-14 meta levels.

Higher meta level = generally better item but more expensive (meta level 5 is T2 and steps out of the progression)
Larger the size = higher damage and range, but lower tracking and higher fitting cost
Long Range = Lower damage and tracking


Adding to that; the end result is that bigger isn't necessarily better and (thus) finding the biggest gun you could fit isn't necessarily a smart thing to do because bigger guns have more trouble hitting up close, smaller and orbiting targets. So you fit the guns that augments your strategy.

In level 1 missions generally the best strategy is "I'll shoot them from over here" because it means you waste less time travelling and you generally get hurt less due to range. So in this case using the small focussed beams works fine, IF you remember to stay at range. Those focussed beams will have a more trouble hitting a close orbiting target than the smaller beams (dual light beam) and a whole lot more trouble when you compare it to pulses.

So with bigger guns you CAN stay at range but generally you also MUST stay at range.

Yes, yes I am. Thanks for noticing.

Aureus Rosebud
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2014-08-20 10:49:20 UTC
So much awesome info, thanks! I really appreciate the reasoning behind the choices and the arguments as well; they generate some kind of insight that is harder to obtain through item comparisons etc.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#14 - 2014-08-20 11:18:31 UTC
Here's something I've copied from another thread that some newbies have found useful. I wrote it to avoid EVE jargon unless that jargon is being explained. General advice, not just for your situation.




General EVE fitting advice for the beginner that is currently trying to avoid PVP:

- Tank:
- Fit your race's preferred tank (armor for Amarr/Gall, shield otherwise). Don't deviate unless you know what you are doing.
- If you are armor tanking, do not fit ANY shield tanking modules, and vice versa. This is the most common mistake new players make.
- Emphasise resist% modules and local repair modules that use capacitor (for example, if you are armor tanking, look at Energized Adaptive Nano Plating II, Armor Kinetic Hardener II, and Medium Armor Repairer II). "Local repair" means modules that use capacitor to 'heal' damage you have already taken, as opposed to "remote repair" modules which use capacitor to 'heal' damage other player ships have taken.
- Use tech 2 resist modules if you can fit them, and cheap named ones such as Prototype Armor Kinetic Hardener I until then. (Faction/deadspace resist modules are too expensive to fit on a newbie's ship).
- Do not skimp on your local repair module(s) - it's perfectly reasonable to fit one deadspace (C-type) local repair module on a ship that is otherwise only using tech 2 modules. In my opinion, your local repair module should be the most expensive module on your ship. (Not for the super-new)
- Consider rigs that improve your local repairs. Such rigs will result in you spending less capacitor repairing.
- Don't use modules that give +HP with no other benefit - these are for PVP encounters against multiple players that all focus fire, and don't help much in PVE except in incursions. They also have nasty drawbacks (the armor ones slow you down; the shield ones make you easier to hit and allow enemies to acquire a target lock on your ship more quickly)
- If in doubt, go overboard on tank and fit more defensive modules at the expense of less offensive ones.
- Resist% modules suffer diminishing returns. The second module on the same resist works at 87% effectiveness; the third at 57% and the fourth is almost useless (27%).

- Lastly: The Damage Control 2 is a useful tank module. If you screw up really badly, it will buy you a lot more time in structure before you pop, and its shield/armor resists are not stacking penalized at all.

- Sample armor tank for a cruiser that is fighting against Serpentis NPC pirates (Serpentis ships do only Kinetic and Thermal damage):
- 1 Armor Kinetic Hardener II
- 1 Armor Thermic Hardener II
- 1 Damage Control II
- 1 Medium Armor Repairer II


- Damage:
- Fit the weapons system(s) your ship has a bonus to, always.
- Fit low slot modules that increase damage output (Magnetic Field Stabilizers, Heat Sinks, Drone Damage Amplifiers etc) for your weapon system(s). If you are using split weapons systems (e.g. the Vexor which uses hybrids and drones) use an equal number of each.
- Consider mid slot modules that increase accuracy. This is more important with battleship weapons (including sentry drones).
- Consider rigs that increase your weapons system, although IMO local repair rigs are probably better.
- Have all of your guns match. This lets you group them, which will improve your ability to apply damage in practice.
- Carry different types of ammunition, within reason. I recommend one long range and one short range ammunition.
- If you are flying a missile-bonused ship, ask someone (not me) that understands missile mechanics well for advice.
- Finally, make sure you have some way to kill a small ship that is orbiting you fast. For most ships, this means Warrior I or Warrior II drones. Alternately, it can mean two Stasis Webifiers (to slow down the orbiting, making the target easier to track) and medium blasters with close-range ammo. Just don't be 'that person' begging in local for help because your Hyperion is being warp disrupted in a mission by a frigate you cannot hurt.



- Utility:
- This is really up to you. I like to dictate range, so I fit my Ishtar with a microwarpdrive and two Stasis Webifiers, and a warp scrambler (in case I find myself in unexpected PVP).
- In PVE environments, it is usually better to not bother with modules that reduce one opponent's capacity to shoot you. Modules that do that, such as Sensor Dampeners, ECM "jammers", and Tracking Disruptors are best used against hostile players, not against NPCs.
- Good utility mods worth considering are:
- Cap Recharger II: Always fit these in slots you do not feel you need.
- Microwarp Drive: These are murder on capacitor, but really help you navigate the battlefield quickly, escaping from ships that are dangerous up close such as 'brawler-fit' battleships. 1MN is for frigates and destroyers, 10MN is for cruisers and battlecruisers, and 100MN for battleships. MWDs make you much, much easier to hit while you are using them.
- Afterburner: Like the MWD, these make you faster, but only double your speed rather than increasing it by ~500%. However, they can be run indefinitely and do not make you easier to hit. Afterburners and MWDs are collectively termed "Prop Mods" (short for "Propulsion Modules") by players. In particular PVP fits should almost always have one of these modules.
- Target Painter: These long-range electronic warfare modules make your opponent easier to hit by increasing its 'signature radius' (a term for how large the target ship appears to be for purposes of electronic targetting systems). Very useful for fighting ships one size category smaller than your ship (so if you are in a battleship, this will help you apply damage to a cruiser that is orbiting you).
- Stasis Webifiers: These short range modules serve the same role as target painters by making small ships easier to hit.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#15 - 2014-08-20 11:47:04 UTC
And don't shoot the flashy yellow player stealing your loot😉
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#16 - 2014-08-20 11:48:03 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
And don't shoot the flashy yellow player stealing your loot😉


Not unless you are sure you can beat them, or want to lose a ship for the lulz.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Aureus Rosebud
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2014-08-20 11:49:53 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
And don't shoot the flashy yellow player stealing your loot😉


Not unless you are sure you can beat them, or want to lose a ship for the lulz.


Sorry, I don't follow :)
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#18 - 2014-08-20 11:58:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Ralph King-Griffin
Aureus Rosebud wrote:

Sorry, I don't follow :)



From a thread earlier in the week

Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Charax Bouclier wrote:
Newton Grav wrote:
You can still dock as long as you haven't got the 1 minute weapons timer.

So if you wanted you can just steal and then go and wait out the suspect timer in the station.


OK, so if I do the following:

1. Approach can
2. Align to station
3. Loot can
4. Warp and dock at station and wait out timer

It's that easy? Where is the risk/repercussions to me?
almost nothing aside from getting a name for yourself,
be aware though the newbie systems are in fact monitored by the gm's so don't make a habit of shinaninganising(©Ralph2014) the brand new players in them.
A hand full of occasions at most to prove the concept for yourself and then you should move that sort of thing out into the world.

Also, if you're able to use combat probes (a fairly short train) you can "Ninja Loot" this is, scan down and enter other players mission area's and do the same thing with their mission items and then well then back to them,
(bear in mind the mission rats might well switch aggression to you , so you could end up with that and an angry player after your head).
We call this "mission flipping" if you are in fact looking for a fight and I would highly recommend it as a gateway into PvP as you can be almost completely assured the target will be pve fit and you can (almost) always disengage if it goes **** up.
Marc Durant
#19 - 2014-08-20 12:31:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Marc Durant
Aureus Rosebud wrote:
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
And don't shoot the flashy yellow player stealing your loot😉


Not unless you are sure you can beat them, or want to lose a ship for the lulz.


Sorry, I don't follow :)


If someone takes from a can or wreck that isn't his he goes Suspect, that means that for 15 minutes everyone can shoot that person. However, when someone indeed DOES shoot him he then is allowed to fight back. So many opportunists probe down a mission runner, enter his mission and steal from his wrecks on purpose hoping to make the guy so mad he'll shoot them, after which they can attack and kill/ransom that mission ship.

And since it's fairly simple, for people who prepared for it, to switch ships lots of mission runners in bigger ships attack the "stupid little frigate" thinking they know wtf they're doing. They don't.


So; don't shoot the yellow players in your mission, or anywhere for that matter, because that's what they WANT you to do.

Yes, yes I am. Thanks for noticing.

Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2014-08-21 02:49:22 UTC
One of the biggest points of advice I can give is try to stick to fighting Sansha and Blood Raiders. If you can fit both an EM and thermal membrane/hardener along with an armor repairer and armor plate, you'll be set to soak up a lot of damage. Then you can more easily focus on shooting them without worrying quite as much about how they are shooting you.

This is only good for PVE, and you should be very careful before fitting this way in an environment where nonconsensual PVP is likely.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."