These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Why do people believe ISK has a real life money value?

First post First post
Author
lord xavier
Rubbed Out
#21 - 2014-08-20 09:54:59 UTC
Well, considering one plex costs $19.99 or 800m ISK. I don't know where real life money can be convered into isk.

28x Plex for $489.99 valued at 22.4 billion ISK.

Now the ISK per $1 is lower than that, but the above are he straight conversions with current sell order value and buying directly from the Eve Online site.
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#22 - 2014-08-20 10:14:02 UTC
Blatant misrepresentation in most of the public press, to answer the question of your thread name.

Didn't read the other stuff.

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.

Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#23 - 2014-08-20 10:20:31 UTC
It's fairly simple to put RL currency value to PLEX since you paid 14€ for it, obviously you can't exchange that plex back to € (legally that is) but it doesn't stop people from pretending they could.
Since PLEX prices fluctuate from time to it's easier to count value to things through plex prices because that ratio stays constant unlike ISK to effort ratio which is also dependant on personal opinions.
Arla Sarain
#24 - 2014-08-20 10:28:20 UTC
Jenni LaCroix wrote:
snip

I never believed in the "you can play this game for free" interpretation.

No one plays this game for free - someone else pays for you and you agree to reward them with ingame money for their generosity.

ISK has real life money value because it is traded as such and the conversion rate is defined by players. If PLEX is in demand, then clearly it has value, no? The most fundamental way to obtain PLEX is to spend RL money on it.

PLEX is kinda like RMT, though what you trade ISK for isn't real money, it's an item that has real-life value. Hence ISK has real life money value.

Maybe I am wrong, but that's how it makes sense to me.
stup idity
#25 - 2014-08-20 10:58:41 UTC
Baneken wrote:
It's fairly simple to put RL currency value to PLEX since you paid 14€ for it, obviously you can't exchange that plex back to € (legally that is) but it doesn't stop people from pretending they could.


Isk has real money value as soon - and also only as long as - you can spend Isk instead of real money to buy something, mostly game time or maybe the collectors edition.

Based on this, being space rich (quite unspecific) has a very specific value when you safe real money for your subscriptions (or other stuff). This worth has of course an upper limit, because there are only so many accounts you can use in a meaningful manner and plexing more than 10 years in advance might be a little too optimistic.

I am the Herald of all beings that are me.

Solecist Project
#26 - 2014-08-20 11:11:07 UTC


1. It's good marketing, because
2. too many people think high values of money have substance and indicate depth where there is none.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

wiskyjack
New Eden Mining Organisation
The Craftsmen
#27 - 2014-08-20 11:18:25 UTC
I can buy ISK any time I want.

Step 1 go to bank
Step 2 change euros for Icelandic krona (ISK)
Step 3 role around in the millions of ISK I get thanks Ito inflation

dark heartt
#28 - 2014-08-20 11:30:19 UTC
I'm really trying hard here to think of any Eve player I know who legitimately thinks that ISK has a real life money value, but so far I'm coming up blank. It's my experience that people who actually think that don't play the game and get their information from media who like to use phrases like "Huge Eve Online battle destroys $570,000 worth of spaceships" (that was an actual title from the B-R fight in January) in order to draw views.


I recall being in a twitch stream unrelated to Eve, and people in there were talking about how they thought Eve players were crazy for spending so much money on the game. Fortunately the stream was small so I was able to inform them of the truth.

So to directly answer your question, ISK has no real life value. However we can work out how much it would cost to buy ISK with PLEX, so we can give things a real money value to show how much a virtual item would cost in real money if we were to buy it by selling PLEX that we bought with RL money.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#29 - 2014-08-20 12:09:40 UTC
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
Simply put, people like to break things down into units of measure that are widely known and easy to understand.

It's also helpful when talking EVE to a non-EVE crowd. "A 50billion ISK ship exploded" vs. "A $500 ship exploded!" (use your own currency of course)



This/
Pok Nibin
Doomheim
#30 - 2014-08-20 12:33:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Pok Nibin
Simply put, people like to exaggerate their significance ('cause we're all really lost in this HUGE crowd) so they light up on units of measure to create the impression something they're involved in is worth far more than it actually is. For instance:

It took me 40 hours of steady farming to come up with the ISK to buy and outfit that Capital ship. Since my time is worth roughly $10,416 a week (from a net income of $500,000.00 per year) then the cash value of that ship and fittings is undoubtedly $10,416. Fortunately, EVE doesn't have a Blue Book so the value doesn't depreciate over time!

At the same time, understand, certain countries have industries based largely on farming in-game currencies for all the major games which can be purchased illegally (and counter to your ToS). The CEO of one gaming corporation, NetMarble, was actually arrested by the Korean police for doing just this, not long ago.

There was also a case not too long ago of a group of kids who went to another kid's house, tied him to a chair in front of his computer, and at knife point forced him to log a World of Warcraft character and drop a weapon, so another kid could pick it up. The court that adjudicated that case indeed said in-game objects and material can be said to have an actual cash value, especially with regard to law enforcement.

SO....guess again.

The right to free speech doesn't automatically carry with it the right to be taken seriously.

Angeal MacNova
Holefood Inc.
Warriors of the Blood God
#31 - 2014-08-20 12:33:20 UTC
Arla Sarain wrote:
Jenni LaCroix wrote:
snip

I never believed in the "you can play this game for free" interpretation.

No one plays this game for free - someone else pays for you and you agree to reward them with ingame money for their generosity.

ISK has real life money value because it is traded as such and the conversion rate is defined by players. If PLEX is in demand, then clearly it has value, no? The most fundamental way to obtain PLEX is to spend RL money on it.

PLEX is kinda like RMT, though what you trade ISK for isn't real money, it's an item that has real-life value. Hence ISK has real life money value.

Maybe I am wrong, but that's how it makes sense to me.


Pretty much this. You don't have to be able to turn isk into RL money for isk to have RL monetary value. You only need that one common denominator, PLEX, which has both RL value and in-game value.

$20 = 1 PLEX = 800M isk

Thus

$20 = 800M isk


Even without a PLEX, any in-game currency can be given RL monetary value. The problem here, however, is that it now gets it's worth based on the individual player.

Opportunity cost. What it boils down to is isk/hour vs $/hour that you could be making. If you can make 100M isk in an hour but could be making $24/hour working that same hour, then 100M isk is worth $24 to you because that is what it just cost you.

The PLEX gives everyone an equal footing on the RL value of isk regardless of what each player could be making if they were spending their time working instead.

Actually the RL price of a PLEX vs the isk price of a PLEX when comparing it to the above opportunity cost says quite a bit.

With the above 100M isk = $24 but with the PLEX its 800M isk = $20

For the person where 100M isk = $24, then that 800M isk = $192. So for this person to spend $20 to get 800M is a really good deal. Based on the PLEX driven worth, it would be equivalent to an individuals opportunity cost of just $3/hour.

It's messed up with individual players having multiple accounts but if every character represented a player (1 character per player) then with the current isk value on PLEX, the average opportunity cost would be $3/hour. In other words, the average income of the EVE player base would be $3/hour.



http://www.projectvaulderie.com/goodnight-sweet-prince/

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/the-untold-story/

CCP's true, butthurt, colors.

Because those who can't do themselves keep others from doing too.

Jenni LaCroix
Doomheim
#32 - 2014-08-20 12:50:28 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Everythgin you can buy with money or Time has a real life value. Is daydreaming anyone that believe otherwise.


Please read before you reply, don't just read the title.

If I lose a carrier that I paid nothing for, plus I chose to play out of my own free will (which most here do) so you cannot consider this a money/time investment, then why would I be losing money?
Grunanca
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2014-08-20 13:20:38 UTC
Jenni LaCroix wrote:
Grunanca wrote:
Short answer:

Because buying a plex is a choice and while a plex in itself is not worth real money, someone at some point did the choice of spending money on the plex, hence why the plex now has a real life value.

With the ability to chose to buy a plex or keep the real money, comes the ability to compare shiplosses to what you could have bought in real instead.


Well, to that person as I suggested it might then have a value, correct, but what if you are the player that never spent one cent on any PLEX, and you lose over a one year time span let's say 5 bio isk, did you lose physical money then too?


Nope, you lose what compares to X amount of real money for the guy who bought the plexes, which can for comparing reasons be looked at as losing 5 bil isk in real money. If the guy hadnt lost 5 bil, it could potentially save him 7-8 months og sub paying, which translates into a potential real loss.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2014-08-20 14:28:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Kagura Nikon
Jenni LaCroix wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Everythgin you can buy with money or Time has a real life value. Is daydreaming anyone that believe otherwise.


Please read before you reply, don't just read the title.

If I lose a carrier that I paid nothing for, plus I chose to play out of my own free will (which most here do) so you cannot consider this a money/time investment, then why would I be losing money?



You paid for it.. be in money to buy plex be in time. Currency is just a conversion and value unit for your work time multiplied by your workvalue.

The only real value is time spent, so yes anythign you got in eve has real life value. How much woudl you have earned on that time in real life? That is the cost of that carrier.

and please use your brain before replying...

Anyone that thinks that ANYTHING in this world is free.. is a fool. Everything has a cost... EVERYTHING

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Ocih
Space Mermaids
#35 - 2014-08-20 14:37:35 UTC
It's spin.

It's also a detriment to EVE. While people playing EVE know that these losses really convert to years of game wasted, no matter what conversion system they use to identify it, people on the outside see insane numbers in the quarter million up and cancel EVE out as anything they ever want to play.

I know because I did it after a publicity stunt in Entropia Universe where some guy "lost" $50K US in the blink of an eye. Responsible people (most of us) don't embrace that kind of squander. They avoid it.
stup idity
#36 - 2014-08-20 14:42:37 UTC
Angeal MacNova wrote:

calculations and stuff...


This only works if you are able to add additional working hours to your existing working schedule.

I have a full time job. Contract says that I have to work 40hrs/week, overtime is normally never paid out, but compensated through free time when suitable. This simply results in working more in this job, won't get me more money.

Second job would be an option, but: taxes and other stuff are bases on the total income, meaning that from everything I earn on top, half is gone.
If my second job conflicts with the interest of my first employer, I can't do both and have to choose. A conflict would be if both jobs were in the same line of business or if the second job would be so demanding timewise that I could not make the legal restrictions for overall weekly working time (normally 48h) or rest times between working days (11hrs).


I am the Herald of all beings that are me.

Tweek Etimua
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2014-08-20 15:09:54 UTC
The same reason why Gold has "real" monetary value. Some one else is willing to accept it as just that.
Xavier Holtzman
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#38 - 2014-08-20 15:26:06 UTC
Jenni LaCroix wrote:

No trolls on this one please.





You're new around here, aren't youQuestion

I do not like the men on this spaceship. They are uncouth and fail to appreciate my better qualities. I have something of value to contribute to this mission if only they would realize it. - Bill Frug

Charles Muffins
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#39 - 2014-08-20 15:44:21 UTC
Sort of ironic how you could work a minimum wage job and earn more ISK through buying PLEX than mining ISK.
BoBoZoBo
MGroup9
#40 - 2014-08-20 15:44:46 UTC  |  Edited by: BoBoZoBo
Your confusion comes from your misunderstanding of what "real money" really is.

All value is virtual, regardless of weather it is affixed to a physical dollar, or virtual ISK.
The same for any object (physical or virtual), the value fluctuates depending on demand and desire.

This makes all money virtual. Where the desire to want is real

Now Add time to that, which is fixed, but also is valued differently by different people.
EVE takes time, which is more real than assessed value of money

TL:DR - Time is money. And what people want have real value.


Honestly, what I do not understand is... why people do not get this.

Primary Test Subject • SmackTalker Elite