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Community Concerns Regarding SOMERblink

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Arrendis
TK Corp
#781 - 2014-08-20 07:30:17 UTC
Rroff wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:

There's enough that isn't behind the scenes to make what they did pretty clearly and unequivocally wrong under the EULA.


Maybe so tbh I've not even bothered my head about it, all I know (in full transparency) is that I've walked away up more than 20bn and somewhat disgusted that the toxicity (which is far more low and disgusting than anything somer may or may no have done) behind some of the more vocal efforts to bring somer down appears to be legitimised by all this even if somer is guilty and even if some of the concerns voiced about somer were purely altruistic.


He broke the rules. When caught, he chose to shut down the parts of his site that didn't break the rules, rather than operate within the rules. It's as simple as that.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#782 - 2014-08-20 07:31:46 UTC
Fracoix wrote:
People like me who bought PLEX to blink will Roll

I expect i wasn't alone in doing this....


Thankfully, the National Council on Problem Gambling has a 24-hour confidential support hotline you can call.

Get help here: http://www.ncpgambling.org/

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Fracoix
Rubius Dubious
#783 - 2014-08-20 07:33:07 UTC
Andski wrote:
Fracoix wrote:
People like me who bought PLEX to blink will Roll

I expect i wasn't alone in doing this....


Thankfully, the National Council on Problem Gambling has a 24-hour confidential support hotline you can call.

Get help here: http://www.ncpgambling.org/


Don't need it now do I? Lol
Derrick Miles
Death Rabbit Ky Oneida
#784 - 2014-08-20 07:36:15 UTC
Andski wrote:
Fracoix wrote:
People like me who bought PLEX to blink will Roll

I expect i wasn't alone in doing this....


Thankfully, the National Council on Problem Gambling has a 24-hour confidential support hotline you can call.

Get help here: http://www.ncpgambling.org/

If that was a joke, it was in poor taste. If it wasn't, I don't think spending money on gambling alone constitutes an addiction to gambling.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#785 - 2014-08-20 07:40:00 UTC
Derrick Miles wrote:
If that was a joke, it was in poor taste. If it wasn't, I don't think spending money on gambling alone constitutes an addiction to gambling.


Honestly, when you've lost enough ISK on Blink that you go full sunk cost and buy PLEX to replenish your losses and continue gambling, I think you have a problem.

As far as poor taste jokes go this is pretty benign anyway

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Lauresh Thellere
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#786 - 2014-08-20 07:40:30 UTC
I still can't believe people are upset that players were outraged by somer RMT. It's against the rules and probably illegal as well and the only reason he wasn't permabanned on the spot was the fact that there was complexities behind it that needed to be investigated.

RMT is against the rules of the game no matter who does it and is punishable by a permanent ban without warning.

Also to all the gambling addicts out there somer decided to kill the site of his own free will, CCP had nothing to do with that. Somer just didn't want to face the consequences of his actions so quit. The second thing is that somer is not the only gambling website out there, and now that it's gone several new ones which use somer's idea of a fast paced lottery system will spring up soon enough.

TL;DR: RMT is punishable by permaban, Somer killed his own site to try and avoid punishment from CCP and gambling addicts can still get their fix so stop complaining that CCP ruined your game.
Lady Naween
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#787 - 2014-08-20 07:40:37 UTC
Ohkewl wrote:


RMT= converting ISK to real money.
That's what Somer, Evenews24 and TMC are doing, they jump thru some hoops to get there, but the end result is the same.


*facedesks*

no wait..

*facedesks more*

nope you still dont make sense
Fracoix
Rubius Dubious
#788 - 2014-08-20 07:46:35 UTC
Andski wrote:
Derrick Miles wrote:
If that was a joke, it was in poor taste. If it wasn't, I don't think spending money on gambling alone constitutes an addiction to gambling.


Honestly, when you've lost enough ISK on Blink that you go full sunk cost and buy PLEX to replenish your losses and continue gambling, I think you have a problem.

As far as poor taste jokes go this is pretty benign anyway



It's only a problem if you can't afford it. Still got my job, friends, house etc.. So I'm not down and out mate P
Klyith
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#789 - 2014-08-20 07:47:56 UTC
Ohkewl wrote:

A wild guess, some people are allowed to RMT from CCP, and others arent.

Oh my god.
Some people are allowed to follow the rules.
Some other people are forbidden from breaking the rules.

THIS INJUSTICE WILL NOT STAND!




Jebus hChrist wrote:
Well looks like the goons got what they wanted as always gg ccp.

In future threads, can you please refrain from calling the winning side "the goons"? When all the reasonable and intelligent people are arguing one side, and all the stupid and shortsighted ones are on the other side, I assure you that it's only a coincidence that all the goons posting in the discussion are in the first group.

There are plenty of reasonable and intelligent non-goons as well and I feel this tendency devalues their input.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#790 - 2014-08-20 07:50:23 UTC
Fracoix wrote:
Andski wrote:
Derrick Miles wrote:
If that was a joke, it was in poor taste. If it wasn't, I don't think spending money on gambling alone constitutes an addiction to gambling.
Honestly, when you've lost enough ISK on Blink that you go full sunk cost and buy PLEX to replenish your losses and continue gambling, I think you have a problem.

As far as poor taste jokes go this is pretty benign anyway
It's only a problem if you can't afford it. Still got my job, friends, house etc.. So I'm not down and out mate P
From an in-character perspective, you are. If you run out of isk and have to borrow from your real wallet, your character is down and out. They psychology of it is pretty similar.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#791 - 2014-08-20 07:52:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Lauresh Thellere wrote:
I still can't believe people are upset that players were outraged by somer RMT. It's against the rules and probably illegal as well and the only reason he wasn't permabanned on the spot was the fact that there was complexities behind it that needed to be investigated.

RMT is against the rules of the game no matter who does it and is punishable by a permanent ban without warning.

Also to all the gambling addicts out there somer decided to kill the site of his own free will, CCP had nothing to do with that. Somer just didn't want to face the consequences of his actions so quit. The second thing is that somer is not the only gambling website out there, and now that it's gone several new ones which use somer's idea of a fast paced lottery system will spring up soon enough.

TL;DR: RMT is punishable by permaban, Somer killed his own site to try and avoid punishment from CCP and gambling addicts can still get their fix so stop complaining that CCP ruined your game.


Except that they had authorisation from CCP. See, RMT results in a permaban IF it can be shown to be RMT AND it's not authorised by CCP. If you're going to throw out the blanket statement "RMT is punishable by permaban" then anyone who's ever bought PLEX and sold it for isk is in line for a permaban. Because that's RMT. It's trading real money for in-game money. The only difference is, CCP allows it.

The REAL difference here, of course, isn't that CCP approved Somer's promo, it's that it was Somer. Again, this whole debacle has just been another "Grr Somer", brought to you by people just looking to make mountains out of molehills.

I don't care about Somer one way or the other, but if you were a victim of an unsubstantiated witchhunt, it'd probably be easier for you to just disappear, don't you agree?

Packing up Somer COULD be a sign of guilt. It could also be a sign of exactly what he says it is: he's sick of the bullshit. I would be too. In any case, assuming one way or the other definitively is an assumption, the same kind of assumption that lead to this manufactured outrage to begin with, and a sign that EVE's player-base isn't as bright as most of us believe.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Arrendis
TK Corp
#792 - 2014-08-20 07:52:18 UTC
Klyith wrote:
There are plenty of reasonable and intelligent non-goons as well and I feel this tendency devalues their input.


And plenty of unreasonable sperglord goons, for that matter.
Suzie Swindle
Shady Con Artist Militia
#793 - 2014-08-20 07:53:28 UTC
For those are saying CCP let them, its CCPs fault somers shouldnt be shut down... CCP is not shutting somers down (well at the moment somers shut down anyway) Somers did that, so blame Somers for blink not being up and going...

Now as for the "well CCP said they could so its CCPs fault"... that is crap and you can see it... a person from CCP did say they could run with a "buy plex at market value" from its customers, this is true, however once started "bonus" isk was being paid.. the exact same thing that was stopped last year...

Also, the same day that somers started up with the bonus for gametime scheme the CSM and CCP got into looking into it, its not as if CCP let this run for weeks and weeks and weeks.... So saying its CCPs fault for not checking and letting somers run with it for so long is their fault is not true, the acted as soon as things were not running as they should.

Somers tried to pull a fast one with his getting approval method to run his scheme, then got caught, CCP actted quickly which is why its only been a few days from start to end of the whole deal.... Now if CCP had let this run for weeks or something, ok sure blame CCP for messing up, but when CCP gets wind of a loop hole/exploit and begins work withing a day to fix/stop it... this is one time (wow still seems wierd typing this) that it is NOT CCPs fault.
Fracoix
Rubius Dubious
#794 - 2014-08-20 07:55:00 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Fracoix wrote:
Andski wrote:
Derrick Miles wrote:
If that was a joke, it was in poor taste. If it wasn't, I don't think spending money on gambling alone constitutes an addiction to gambling.
Honestly, when you've lost enough ISK on Blink that you go full sunk cost and buy PLEX to replenish your losses and continue gambling, I think you have a problem.

As far as poor taste jokes go this is pretty benign anyway
It's only a problem if you can't afford it. Still got my job, friends, house etc.. So I'm not down and out mate P
From an in-character perspective, you are. If you run out of isk and have to borrow from your real wallet, your character is down and out. They psychology of it is pretty similar.


Oh what a impact those pixels got on my real life. Haha, go play a shrink elswhere Roll
Arrendis
TK Corp
#795 - 2014-08-20 07:55:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Arrendis
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Except that they had authorisation from CCP. See, RMT results in a permaban IF it can be shown to be RMT AND it's not authorised by CCP. If you're going to throw out the blanket statement "RMT is punishable by permaban" then anyone who's ever bought PLEX and sold it for isk is in line for a permaban. Because that's RMT. It's trading real money for in-game money. The only difference is, CCP allows it.

The REAL difference here, of course, isn't that CCP approved Somer's promo, it's that it was Somer. Again, this whole debacle has just been another "Grr Somer", brought to you by people just looking to make mountains out of molehills.

I don't care about Somer one way or the other, but if you were a victim of an unsubstantiated witchhunt, it'd probably be easier for you to just disappear, don't you agree?


Except that they had authorization to do something else. What they actually implemented was not what was approved, which would void the approval.

And no, RMT is not 'trading real money for isk', RMT is acquiring real money for in-game goods or services.

And frankly, if I was the victim of an unsubstantiated witch-hunt, and I knew I was innocent? I would pick up a bat, find myself some firm ground to stand on, and say 'give me your best shot'. If I was guilty, mind you, then I might run, sure.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#796 - 2014-08-20 08:02:53 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Except that they had authorisation from CCP. See, RMT results in a permaban IF it can be shown to be RMT AND it's not authorised by CCP. If you're going to throw out the blanket statement "RMT is punishable by permaban" then anyone who's ever bought PLEX and sold it for isk is in line for a permaban. Because that's RMT. It's trading real money for in-game money. The only difference is, CCP allows it.


Sorry, but what CCP approved had nothing to do with what Somer implemented:

CCP Falcon wrote:
In the same respect however, we believe that the promotion that caused this issue was not representative of the original proposal that was brought to CCP.


Remiel Pollard wrote:
The REAL difference here, of course, isn't that CCP approved Somer's promo, it's that it was Somer. Again, this whole debacle has just been another "Grr Somer", brought to you by people just looking to make mountains out of molehills.

I don't care about Somer one way or the other, but if you were a victim of an unsubstantiated witchhunt, it'd probably be easier for you to just disappear, don't you agree?

Packing up Somer COULD be a sign of guilt. It could also be a sign of exactly what he says it is: he's sick of the bullshit. I would be too. In any case, assuming one way or the other definitively is an assumption, the same kind of assumption that lead to this manufactured outrage to begin with, and a sign that EVE's player-base isn't as bright as most of us believe.


First: if anybody in EVE RMTs as brazenly as Somer did, they will face the same "witch hunt" once somebody exposes it.

Second: Somer brought this on himself by giving CCP a horribly ambiguous proposal to sign off on and then going entirely against the spirit and the letter of the guidelines CCP set forth for PLEX referral incentives. Stop painting him as a victim.

I'm sure that a lot of people who were upset about this have it rooted in previous issues they've had with Somer, like losing everything on Blink, but believe it or not, a lot of us simply don't like it when people who are players first and foremost presume to be above the rules out of some sense of entitlement.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Ibrahim Vaughn Holtzman
the holtzman experience
CAStabouts
#797 - 2014-08-20 08:05:33 UTC
Good riddance to bad rubbish.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#798 - 2014-08-20 08:12:00 UTC
Ohkewl wrote:
RMT= converting ISK to real money.
That's what Somer, Evenews24 and TMC are doing, they jump thru some hoops to get there, but the end result is the same.
Dinsdale is going to be pissed when he finds out you've been stealing from his stash.

Seriously, lay off the kool aid, it's affecting your ability to distinguish between someone employing brazen obfuscation and deception to get around the rules, and someone who follows the rules to the letter.

As others have said if you feel that EN24, TMC, DotLan et al. are in violation of the rules set in place by CCP, with regards to ISK and OOG services, then present your evidence to CCP, who will deal with it appropriately; probably by filing it under B for bin or T for tinfoil.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
K1ng Splurge
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#799 - 2014-08-20 08:15:38 UTC  |  Edited by: K1ng Splurge
B. Selling Items and Objects

You may not transfer, sell or auction, or buy or accept any offer to transfer, sell or auction (or offer to do any of the foregoing), any content appearing within the Game environment, including without limitation characters, character attributes, items, currency, and objects, other than via a permitted Character Transfer as described in section 3 above. You may not encourage or induce any other person to participate in such a prohibited transaction. The buying, selling or auctioning (or any attempt at doing so) of characters, character attributes, items, currency, or objects, whether through online auctions, newsgroups, postings on message boards or any other means is prohibited by the EULA and a violation of CCP's proprietary rights in the Game.


Is what we call RMT or Real Money Trade. This form of buying ISK is NOT allowed at all in any way. You cannot buy ISK for real life money.

ISK buying and selling is against the EULA. Such ISK is confiscated (Typically double the amount is taken away so you can be in the negative) by the GMs and your account may be banned or suspended for being involved in it. Help keep the game balanced by reporting anyone eve-mailing or convoing you to buy ISK for real cash. No matter what website you see or go to no matter how "legal" they say it is. Buying ISK for Real life cash is RMT and a violation of the EULA.


Based on what i read above, doesn't that also apply to all users buying plex from Marquee Dragon and then accepting additional bonus isk for doing so from Somerblink?

That then raises, if that was considered RMT and stopped (Buying plex on somer affiliate and getting bonus) why wasn't every user who done it banned? Since they (including myself) all accepted EULA when we started playing eve.

Because according to CCP "RMT = instant ban?"
Klyith
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#800 - 2014-08-20 08:18:23 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:

I don't care about Somer one way or the other, but if you were a victim of an unsubstantiated witchhunt, it'd probably be easier for you to just disappear, don't you agree?

Nah. If I was the victim of a witchhunt, I'd probably stand firm to my convictions in the belief that all the evidence would vindicate me.


On the other hand if I was a dedicated witch practitioner, and I'd been documenting all my witching on a public website, and I'd mailed a letter to the authorities lying about said witchcraft by trying to confuse it with harmless neopagan rituals, and I was the witchiest witch ever while holding an early copy of The Witcher 3...

Then I might want to just disappear when the witchhunt shows up with the stake and bonfire.