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Community Concerns Regarding SOMERblink

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Hendrick Tallardar
Doomheim
#741 - 2014-08-20 06:23:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Hendrick Tallardar
Ohkewl wrote:


All that is irrelevant, all that matters is that he pays his employees with isk, and makes real profits from their labor. It doesnt matter if there are also articles that arent payed with ISK, or that he wrote himself, it matters that there are.


Not really given that it was CCP who mandated the policy regarding paying contributors for in-game ISK for their EVE related work on a site or for other services related to EVE. It's how I can make an Alliance Tournament ad, and put it on my YT channel with monetization (which is another thing CCP also approves of). If you're of the opinion that TMC, EN24, CZ etc. shouldn't be allowed to run ads on their site, which means there's real money revenue, while paying it's contributors in ISK then you'll need to articulate how it's RMT, how it's a violation of CCP's policies and so forth to the CCP Security and Community Management teams. Thus far, there's nothing being done that is in the same vein as what Somer attempted last year, nor what they attempted this time around.

As stated, what TMC (and other sites) do isn't RMT. They provide no in-game incentive to use their site to the reader. The contributor receives an incentive to produce EVE related content for their website which they, the contributor, do of their own volition and accord. In the case of Somer, which is what this thread is discussing, they attempted (twice now) to cause incentivization of their GTC/PLEX referral links in the form of providing ISK to the consumer.

RubyPorto wrote:
Only if that code was EVE related. TMC only pays its writers ISK for EVE articles and I highly doubt they pay hosting in ISK.


They don't.
KaRa DaVuT
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#742 - 2014-08-20 06:25:56 UTC  |  Edited by: KaRa DaVuT
Sion Kumitomo wrote:
Cameron Freerunner wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
n the same respect however, we believe that the promotion that caused this issue was not representative of the original proposal that was brought to CCP.

Spin spin spin spin spin. You make me sad, CCP. He stuck his **** so far up your ass that you couldn't see straight. Now let's watch the PLEX market unravel.


Not to be impolite, but are you stupid? Falcon is being more polite here than I would be because Somer's proposal that he gave CCP isn't actually what he did. Go read the document Somer sent them. Pay particular attention to the "no bonus isk" bit and the subtle weasely last line that betrays his actual intent.

It's not spin, it's reading comprehension. Come back when you get some.


I will not support that guys attitude nor I agree with him about the spinning issue.

But let me ask you something. Why not CCP ever cared to check that IF he is applying to the eula and If he is giving bonus isk or no?

I mean isnt there any mechanism in CCP to check their dealings and third party service providers to see that If they are keeping their part of the promise?

It is really sad to see that their fimr's neglection of control paid as a price by its customers...

Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves, and goodness. What God desires is in your heart and on your mind... And what you decide to do every day, makes you - not your race - a good man - or not.
Klyith
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#743 - 2014-08-20 06:27:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Klyith
Ohkewl wrote:

All that is irrelevant, all that matters is that he pays his employees with isk, and makes real profits from their labor. It doesnt matter if there are also articles that arent payed with ISK, or that he wrote himself, it matters that there are.

And CCP authorizes that trade of ISK for content, for TMC and anyone else that wants to run a eve focused website. If you want to join in you can start the Ohkewl Eve Website and join in the big profits yourself. It's a level playing field.

If you think CCP allowing people to pay writers or other content makers in isk is RMT and shouldn't be allowed, you can make that case. But don't expect to get very far. It's very much in CCP's interest to have lots of eve media, news, and such providing free advertising for them.




(FYI if you think mittani or anyone else in the games journalism field is making fat stacks of cash you're either deluded or have a job flipping burgers. Websites about video games make pennies. I'm sure he could go back to being a lawyer and make more in a month than TMC makes in a year. But being a lawyer isn't as fun as being an ~eve personality~.)
KaRa DaVuT
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#744 - 2014-08-20 06:31:34 UTC  |  Edited by: KaRa DaVuT
CCP Falcon wrote:
Hey guys,

We’re aware that SOMER Blink has posted a message to state that their services are shutting down.

We’re also well aware that a lot of members of the community have enjoyed playing SOMER Blink over the course of the last four years, and it’s very unfortunate and saddening to see a source of enjoyment for our players closing its doors.

In the same respect however, we believe that the promotion that caused this issue was not representative of the original proposal that was brought to CCP.

Given that we’re unable to provide reimbursements as per section 1.3 of our reimbursement policy, it’s good to see that SOMER Blink is shutting down in a controlled and stable manner, and that players will be able to withdraw their ISK and / or assets.

While we will be monitoring this closely, we have no intention of interfering with this process, as we feel that allowing players to be able to have their assets and / or ISK returned by SOMER Blink of their own free will is an important part of bringing this situation to a solid resolution.

We’ll have more information for you guys tomorrow, once myself and CCP Leeloo get back into the office and speak to the relevant people, including the CSM.

This remains a top priority for the community team, those involved in other parts of CCP, and the CSM.

Thanks for your patience while we work on bringing this to a close.





Thank you very much for your info Falcon. you and others worked really hard and Its good to see dedicated persons like you to take care of these kind of things.

Just before you go, can you asnwer one question?

isnt there any mechanism in CCP to check their dealings and third party service providers to see that If they are keeping their part of the promise? Because What somer did like you said did not meet the original proposition. THen why CCP ever check them ?

I mean I as a customer of your (CCP) service, I should not have to be a victiom of the Firm's fail of control towards its service providers.

Thank you very much for your work an all. HOpe everything will be good.

Take care

Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves, and goodness. What God desires is in your heart and on your mind... And what you decide to do every day, makes you - not your race - a good man - or not.
Ohkewl
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#745 - 2014-08-20 06:33:42 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:
KaRa DaVuT wrote:

I just want to hear from the real people, the people who involved that to explain what really happened. From The decision makers. Not from the people that just learned this 24 hour ago.

There are people out there really know whats happenning in CCP. I want them to go out public and explain to me that, why some pople are treated differently than the others in this game when it comes to EULA? As legally both me and somer are subcribers. So both are bound to the EULA rules.


Fair enough.

But just to point out one small detail. Falcon IS the Community Dev. It is his task to talk to you and get the information needed.

I and the rest of the CSM were elected to represent the players, not CCP. We have been doing that, this past day and will continue to do so. Yes, we have our NDA and yes, that gets irritating. I am going through this thread looking for new details, new ideas or requests.

But some see it as trolling or whatever.

Look to out website and see how many of us have written things in the past 36 hours about this. Talk to the people who you think best represent you on the CSM (whether you voted or not). Keep posting here, I will keep reading.

m


You say you represent the players but that is a lie. You might represent the 50 or so loudmouths here, but there are far more players that use the blink website, and you sure arent representing them.
You just showed how valuable the CSM is.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#746 - 2014-08-20 06:36:33 UTC
Ohkewl wrote:
You say you represent the players but that is a lie. You might represent the 50 or so loudmouths here, but there are far more players that use the blink website, and you sure arent representing them.
You just showed how valuable the CSM is.


see the last two lines of my sig

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Ohkewl
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#747 - 2014-08-20 06:41:04 UTC
Andski wrote:
Ohkewl wrote:
You say you represent the players but that is a lie. You might represent the 50 or so loudmouths here, but there are far more players that use the blink website, and you sure arent representing them.
You just showed how valuable the CSM is.


see the last two lines of my sig


yes i'm sure anyone playing blink really wanted to stop Somer.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#748 - 2014-08-20 06:41:47 UTC
Ohkewl wrote:
You say you represent the players but that is a lie. You might represent the 50 or so loudmouths here, but there are far more players that use the blink website, and you sure arent representing them.
You just showed how valuable the CSM is.


The only reason Blink is down is that Somer threw a hissy and turned it off when his RMT scheme came to light.

How does Somer's hissy become the CSM's fault, exactly?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#749 - 2014-08-20 06:42:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
Ohkewl wrote:
yes i'm sure anyone playing blink really wanted to stop Somer.


CCP didn't force Somer to shut Blink down. Neither did the CSM and neither did the posters in this thread. Somer shut blink down because he can no longer make RL money from it the way he wants to. If you're upset about no longer being able to play ****** blinks, cry to Somer, not the people who protested his presumption that he is above the rules.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
warbds
Stoli Holdings
#750 - 2014-08-20 06:43:12 UTC
Pity to see this lottery disappear! One thing if you consider this RMT and you like what you did see. Why not help him and host his side so he doesnot have to pay all the fees to serviceproviders!
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
#751 - 2014-08-20 06:43:56 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Given that we’re unable to provide reimbursements as per section 1.3 of our reimbursement policy, it’s good to see that SOMER Blink is shutting down in a controlled and stable manner, and that players will be able to withdraw their ISK and / or assets.

While we will be monitoring this closely, we have no intention of interfering with this process, as we feel that allowing players to be able to have their assets and / or ISK returned by SOMER Blink of their own free will is an important part of bringing this situation to a solid resolution.

We’ll have more information for you guys tomorrow, once myself and CCP Leeloo get back into the office and speak to the relevant people, including the CSM.

This remains a top priority for the community team, those involved in other parts of CCP, and the CSM.

Thanks for your patience while we work on bringing this to a close.
So I hope this means that just because Somer decided to shut down themselves, the investigation is not over? If they are found "guilty" I still expect actions to be taken. Just because someone decides to cease on their own free will doesn't make it a get out of jail free card for the things done...

I understand that it's a delicate situation and that CCP also do not wish to see players of Somer getting punished (where not needed) because they played a game where the operator did wrong things - but still allowing the bad guys to offload everything to alts and what not is also kinda of a slap on the wrist. Like said, I know it's delicate and hard. But I really don't want to see you drop the ball on this.

/c

★★★ Secure 3rd party service ★★★

Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar'

Twitter @ChribbaVeldspar
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#752 - 2014-08-20 06:45:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
It'd be pretty stupid for CCP to punish people who played on that site, given CCP's past tacit endorsements of SOMERblink. But if they conclude that Somerset Mahm and his staff were clearly looking to engage in ISK selling, I do hope they are given the same punishment as any other player who engages in such activity.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Ohkewl
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#753 - 2014-08-20 06:47:14 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Ohkewl wrote:
You say you represent the players but that is a lie. You might represent the 50 or so loudmouths here, but there are far more players that use the blink website, and you sure arent representing them.
You just showed how valuable the CSM is.


The only reason Blink is down is that Somer threw a hissy and turned it off when his RMT scheme came to light.

How does Somer's hissy become the CSM's fault, exactly?


The only one who really knows why is Somer.
A wild guess, some people are allowed to RMT from CCP, and others arent.
Enaris Kerle
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#754 - 2014-08-20 06:48:51 UTC
Ohkewl wrote:
A wild guess, some people are allowed to RMT from CCP, and others arent.

Maybe you'd like to put some evidence forward, because I'm pretty sure rumor mongering is forbidden.

Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#755 - 2014-08-20 06:52:59 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Edit: I don't understand idioms, apparently.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Derrick Miles
Death Rabbit Ky Oneida
#756 - 2014-08-20 06:53:33 UTC
Ohkewl wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Ohkewl wrote:
You say you represent the players but that is a lie. You might represent the 50 or so loudmouths here, but there are far more players that use the blink website, and you sure arent representing them.
You just showed how valuable the CSM is.


The only reason Blink is down is that Somer threw a hissy and turned it off when his RMT scheme came to light.

How does Somer's hissy become the CSM's fault, exactly?


The only one who really knows why is Somer.
A wild guess, some people are allowed to RMT from CCP, and others arent.

Sounds pretty wild to me, I'm pretty sure CCP doesn't allow RMT in any form. Unless you're redefining the term.
Jori McKie
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#757 - 2014-08-20 06:55:21 UTC
Chribba wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Given that we’re unable to provide reimbursements as per section 1.3 of our reimbursement policy, it’s good to see that SOMER Blink is shutting down in a controlled and stable manner, and that players will be able to withdraw their ISK and / or assets.

While we will be monitoring this closely, we have no intention of interfering with this process, as we feel that allowing players to be able to have their assets and / or ISK returned by SOMER Blink of their own free will is an important part of bringing this situation to a solid resolution.

We’ll have more information for you guys tomorrow, once myself and CCP Leeloo get back into the office and speak to the relevant people, including the CSM.

This remains a top priority for the community team, those involved in other parts of CCP, and the CSM.

Thanks for your patience while we work on bringing this to a close.
So I hope this means that just because Somer decided to shut down themselves, the investigation is not over? If they are found "guilty" I still expect actions to be taken. Just because someone decides to cease on their own free will doesn't make it a get out of jail free card for the things done...

I understand that it's a delicate situation and that CCP also do not wish to see players of Somer getting punished (where not needed) because they played a game where the operator did wrong things - but still allowing the bad guys to offload everything to alts and what not is also kinda of a slap on the wrist. Like said, I know it's delicate and hard. But I really don't want to see you drop the ball on this.

/c


You put in nicer words than i did and i absolutly agree with you.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." - Abrazzar
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#758 - 2014-08-20 06:56:14 UTC
Chribba wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Given that we’re unable to provide reimbursements as per section 1.3 of our reimbursement policy, it’s good to see that SOMER Blink is shutting down in a controlled and stable manner, and that players will be able to withdraw their ISK and / or assets.

While we will be monitoring this closely, we have no intention of interfering with this process, as we feel that allowing players to be able to have their assets and / or ISK returned by SOMER Blink of their own free will is an important part of bringing this situation to a solid resolution.

We’ll have more information for you guys tomorrow, once myself and CCP Leeloo get back into the office and speak to the relevant people, including the CSM.

This remains a top priority for the community team, those involved in other parts of CCP, and the CSM.

Thanks for your patience while we work on bringing this to a close.
So I hope this means that just because Somer decided to shut down themselves, the investigation is not over? If they are found "guilty" I still expect actions to be taken. Just because someone decides to cease on their own free will doesn't make it a get out of jail free card for the things done...

I understand that it's a delicate situation and that CCP also do not wish to see players of Somer getting punished (where not needed) because they played a game where the operator did wrong things - but still allowing the bad guys to offload everything to alts and what not is also kinda of a slap on the wrist. Like said, I know it's delicate and hard. But I really don't want to see you drop the ball on this.

/c

KEEP THE PRESSURE ON 'EM.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Tao Dolcino
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#759 - 2014-08-20 06:59:09 UTC
I have played EVE since 2003 with different accounts. Each time there have been a scandal because of CCP i have cancelled my subscription for many months to protest.
I have lost all trust in CCP years ago (Incarna was the final nail in the coffin).
If they again play it "blurry mafia" instead of being clear and straight, i will cancel again, but this time for good. I'd better pay 15€ monthly to people who have a minimum of sense of probity.
By the way, CCP, i'm also watching you on the matter of null sec sov, which for me is another form of mafia issue.
Josef Djugashvilis
#760 - 2014-08-20 07:01:00 UTC
Oddly enough, it would help mittens if CCP were to take a really close look at his operation.

I am one who finds, 'The Ego' as I think of him, rather pompous and tedious, but I do believe he runs a clean operation.

Clear the air and all that class of thing.

This is not a signature.