These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dev blog: An Update on Bug Reporting, Part 3

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Noriko Mai
#21 - 2014-08-19 17:47:06 UTC
You should ban the devs in this thread for a week or two. So they can think about it :)

"Meh.." - Albert Einstein
Valterra Craven
#22 - 2014-08-19 17:54:35 UTC
Also, on report EBR-14328 I notice that the status is closed, but the new system doesn't really say why it was closed. In your dev blog it was mentioned that the status would be invisible to players, but its not really clear why this is necessary. For example, this particular issue was a graphics issue, and I'm not sure what advantage knowing the resolution of the issue would give me as a player.

Is it not possible in a future update to mark the closed status of the bug as view-able by the customer if the bug being reported ins't an exploit?

The problem with the current implementation is that with a status of closed, I as a player have no idea what I should be doing as a next step. For example you said we should reference the Features and Ideas forums if the bug is closed with a working as intended if we want to try and change the implementation of something. However, without knowing the closed status I would have no idea to even go to the forums to try and make ships not look like poo since the lighting update... (AKA the new lighting system even with max AA makes everything look horribly jagged)
Aryndel Vyst
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2014-08-19 18:02:38 UTC
There's a bug on the forums where one of my posts got deleted should I file a report through the sources mentioned in the OP?
CCP Explorer
C C P
C C P Alliance
#24 - 2014-08-19 18:14:33 UTC
I hope these improvements to the bug reporting website help you in helping us improving EVE Online; I, for one, like them. Big smile

I would like to emphasize a part of the devblog that we still strongly prefer that bug reports be submitted through the in-client bug reporting tool (accessed via the Help menu). It automatically attaches things like logs and also allows you to take screenshots, annotate them, and upload them along with your report. Your submissons from the client will appear on the My Bug Reports page on the website and will be equally interactive.

Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Senior Development Director | EVE Online // CCP Games | @CCP_Explorer
Noriko Mai
#25 - 2014-08-19 18:22:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Noriko Mai
A few minutes ago there were two or three posts above mine (#21) on page two. I would say it's a good start Big smileBig smile

"Meh.." - Albert Einstein
David Laurentson
Laurentson INC
#26 - 2014-08-19 18:44:12 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:

Thanks very much for telling us how you feel. Sorry that you don't think we take Sisi feedback on board, but I assure you the teams are as diligent as possible when it comes to reading the threads and discussing the ideas in them! That being said, the items in the hypothetical list would already have been acknowledged by us to be issues, so does that go some way to mitigating your concerns?


I think his concern is that those issues were acknowledged when they hit TQ, and closed in error on SiSi. Not ignored in threads, Bug Reports were raised, and closed, despite them actually being bugs.

Do you do any investigation of TQ-impacting bugs to see if they were raised on SiSi, and how they were handled? If not, it might be worthwhile: you might have some internal communication work to do, or need to change how you set targets (I can only guess, not working at CCP!).
Che Biko
Alexylva Paradox
#27 - 2014-08-19 20:04:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Che Biko
CCP Goliath wrote:
Additionally, editing a bug once it has been attached or closed will be futile, as we will no longer be checking that report.
Then why not remove the edit option/button for those reportsQuestion People may not know about the futility, and think "The button/option is still there, so it must serve a purpose."

Coordination Channel for Consolidated Space Rescue Cooperation

Open Letter to the Aidonis Foundation Directorate
CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#28 - 2014-08-19 20:10:50 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Goliath
Nicen Jehr wrote:
Why don't you have a Closed resolution, "Fixed" ?

Also, I would use a public bug tracker where I could vote on priorities. But I'd extend it to be feature requests too. And add tags, like 'little thing', this way you wouldn't have to go through the huge hassle of "post little things in thread, parse posts into machine readable format, have CSM put up a voting app", and new suggestions would be immediately votable.


Bug reports don't get "fixed" per se - they either become or are attached to defects, which are fixed, but there is no way currently to relay the state of the defect to the bug report attached to it. Going back over old bug reports to set them to fixed would be very time consuming.

When you say extend the public bug tracker idea to feature requests, do you mean that you would vote on features that we have proposed, or that you would submit features of your own? We already have a place for the latter - in case you aren't aware, it's the Features and Ideas forum.

Tags are great and also come built into Jira. Making them searchable could be good, but making them enterable might not be so good (see Marco Reus and the latest Puma twitter campaign for an example of how that doesn't always work as intended). Definitely a good idea though - thanks for your input!

EDIT: Some guests just came round with CCP Lebowski, so will be answering more posts tomorrow morning! Keep the chat going!

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
Tvashnar Crendraven
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2014-08-19 20:57:42 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:


Bug reports don't get "fixed" per se - they either become or are attached to defects, which are fixed, but there is no way currently to relay the state of the defect to the bug report attached to it. Going back over old bug reports to set them to fixed would be very time consuming.


No doubt. Bugs have costs, and those costs are higher if you ship them to customers.

"'Closed" does not tell me whether I should not be seeing the issue anymore; or whether my understanding is broken and it is not actually a bug or any number of other things which might make me feel that the time I spent to file the bug was not wasted.

Simply closing the issue without comment or a tag like 'fixed', 'not-repro', 'by design' or even 'raised a bug in our real bug tracking system' means that this nice new interface into our bug reports is *useless*.
Circumstantial Evidence
#30 - 2014-08-19 21:04:13 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
Bug reports don't get "fixed" per se - they either become or are attached to defects, which are fixed, but there is no way currently to relay the state of the defect to the bug report attached to it. Going back over old bug reports to set them to fixed would be very time consuming.
Please work on automating this :) I have bugs both attached / "I-know-fixed", and attached / "I-don't-know-anything". I would like to see a column with a one word report / state of the internally-written defect our bug is attached to.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2014-08-19 21:26:16 UTC
We need to be able to see the resolution, not just "closed". This is an improvement, but not by much.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#32 - 2014-08-19 21:37:01 UTC
I like the idea of being able to vote on legacy bugs. But, if you have no way of setting a bug to at status of "fixed" how will this list be populated? You will not know which bugs to include in the list as not a single one will have any indication that it has been fixed!

I would think that if a bug can be attached to a defect, then when that defect has been fixed, that information could automatically flow back to the bug report.

Also the status "closed" is just not informative enough. If something has "insufficient information", I would like to know, so I can try explaining it again. If it cannot be reproduced, I would like to try again, maybe with some other method for repro that might work for you. If its "working as intended" I would like to know so I can do a feature request in F & I.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
CCP Habakuk
C C P
C C P Alliance
#33 - 2014-08-19 21:40:15 UTC
Tvashnar Crendraven wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:


Bug reports don't get "fixed" per se - they either become or are attached to defects, which are fixed, but there is no way currently to relay the state of the defect to the bug report attached to it. Going back over old bug reports to set them to fixed would be very time consuming.


No doubt. Bugs have costs, and those costs are higher if you ship them to customers.

"'Closed" does not tell me whether I should not be seeing the issue anymore; or whether my understanding is broken and it is not actually a bug or any number of other things which might make me feel that the time I spent to file the bug was not wasted.

Simply closing the issue without comment or a tag like 'fixed', 'not-repro', 'by design' or even 'raised a bug in our real bug tracking system' means that this nice new interface into our bug reports is *useless*.


Regarding bugs in "Attached" state: Regardless on what is being shown, you will only know for sure (well in some cases not even then...) that your bug is fixed on TQ, when it will be mentioned in the patch notes (nearly all player-facing bug fixes are mentioned in the patch notes, with the exception of most exploits and some very small issues like spelling fixes). Even if we would show the internal status of the real defect on your bug report it would still cause confusion, as you do not know, when the fix will reach TQ (in some cases this will be the next day, but in some cases it can take a few months (depending in which context it is being fixed) - and no, even the internal information is not as clear.

Regarding bugs in "Closed" state: Old bug reports are unfortunately lacking any further information. I hope that In the future you will often see comments on why a bug report was closed or you will see bug reports with the status "Need more info" with details on what we need.
I had a short check at our stats and most bug reports in the "Closed" state were closed because the report was somehow incomplete and the next category are bugs, which were not reproducible. Both cases should improve alot, if we are able to get further information from the reporter. We are unfortunately still not able to send you an email if we need further information, but we are getting closer. Blink
We want for sure to give you as much information as easily possible on why your bug report was closed, but we don't know yet on how this will look like exactly when everything is in place.

CCP Habakuk | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five 0 | (Team Gridlock)

Bug reporting | Mass Testing
CCP Habakuk
C C P
C C P Alliance
#34 - 2014-08-19 21:41:59 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Habakuk
Vincent Athena wrote:
...
Also the status "closed" is just not informative enough. If something has "insufficient information", I would like to know, so I can try explaining it again. If it cannot be reproduced, I would like to try again, maybe with some other method for repro that might work for you. If its "working as intended" I would like to know so I can do a feature request in F & I.


I totally agree and we will be working on improving this. The only questions are when and how exactly.

CCP Habakuk | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five 0 | (Team Gridlock)

Bug reporting | Mass Testing
Logix42
Taxation Damnation
#35 - 2014-08-19 21:42:52 UTC
Huge thanks to CCP Tier whoever they are!

Go beyond the edge of space... Explore
Hoshi
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#36 - 2014-08-19 22:17:34 UTC
I made a bug report about a month ago about inconsistent use of Agility/Inertia in module descriptions. But the my bug reports page says "You have not submitted any bug reports." (and yes I have checked all account to make sure I didn't submit it on another). Does this mean that there where some error and the bug report never actually reached CCP?. Do I need to resubmit the report?

"Memories are meant to fade. They're designed that way for a reason."
CCP Habakuk
C C P
C C P Alliance
#37 - 2014-08-19 22:23:01 UTC
Hoshi wrote:
I made a bug report about a month ago about inconsistent use of Agility/Inertia in module descriptions. But the my bug reports page says "You have not submitted any bug reports." (and yes I have checked all account to make sure I didn't submit it on another). Does this mean that there where some error and the bug report never actually reached CCP?. Do I need to resubmit the report?



I am also not able to find a bug report about this in your given time frame. The issue itself is known and there is an open defect for it, so there is no need to file a new bug report about it.

CCP Habakuk | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five 0 | (Team Gridlock)

Bug reporting | Mass Testing
asteroidjas
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services
The Possum Lodge
#38 - 2014-08-19 22:27:38 UTC
i am currently not able to submit a bug report, as it keeps saying i need to 'fill out all fields' yet gives me no options to select in the 'category' drop-down.
CCP Habakuk
C C P
C C P Alliance
#39 - 2014-08-19 23:31:03 UTC
asteroidjas wrote:
i am currently not able to submit a bug report, as it keeps saying i need to 'fill out all fields' yet gives me no options to select in the 'category' drop-down.


Hmmm, this is from the client on Tranquility or where do you see this problem? I just tried it and for me it worked fine. It would be helpful if you could get logs from logserver (more info can be found on in the bug reporting page, which is linked in my signature) and create a bug report through the web site. Oops

CCP Habakuk | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five 0 | (Team Gridlock)

Bug reporting | Mass Testing
Noriko Mai
#40 - 2014-08-20 00:09:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Noriko Mai
To be honnest, I stopped writing new reports because I thought no one looks into it. After a few months I could not remember what my report was about, just that I've written one. I just checked my bugreports and most of them are attechend to a defect. So someone actually looked at it and something may/will happen. It's is so satisfying. (No joke or sarcasm) *hugs* will write bugreports again. Sorry for not believing Smile

EDIT: I just checked all of them and some are fixed or never made it from SiSi to TQ.

  • EBR-15230 is fixed.
  • EBR-16144 is fixed.
  • EBR-16465 is fixed.
  • EBR-19126 is fixed.

So if I'm not mistaken or my reports are only a small part of a bigger defect, all of them can be closed.

"Meh.." - Albert Einstein