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Community Concerns Regarding SOMERblink

First post First post
Author
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#301 - 2014-08-19 16:08:35 UTC
Love all the internet space lawyers.

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.

Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#302 - 2014-08-19 16:09:05 UTC
Edward Harris wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:


Thatt Guy wrote:
Turns out that CCP DID authorize this: http://cogdev.net/blink/lisa.txt (unless this is a blatant lie)

So now we're back to CCP allowing this to go on, but only for their special snowflakes.

Don't worry Somer, I'm sure you get some more limited edition ships, or other goodies outta this.


This was not authorized by our legal department.



That is such an easy way out, isn't it Falcon?
So apparently this was authorized by a VP position in CCP, but you simply refuse to man up and admit a mistake.

This tells me that if I personally were to communicate anything towards CCP and get an "OK, go ahead" from you, there is no way to know for sure if your internal communication will pass the information around.
For me, this is the absolute worst that can happen, since I no longer have any trust whatsoever in anything CCP says.

If anything, this was a huge mistake on CCPs side and it should be seen as such, instead of the usual witchhunt you are actively promoting.


If you actually look at the document that was authorised, what Somer was doing and what Somer said they were doing were two very different things.

Should CCP have asked for definitive clarification of the details? Sure.
Did CCP explicitly authorise what was happening? Hell no.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#303 - 2014-08-19 16:12:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Mallak Azaria
CCP Falcon wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
This could have been dealt with in about an hour today.
Hilmar, or some other delegate of CCP, types a statement in this thread stating that CCP has zero-tolerance for RMT, and any scheme to circumvent the EUALA and TOS will not be tolerated. THEN he can make the comment that CCP is dealing with their lawyers about this.

End of story. People would then know that they are coming down like an anvil on Somer-Blink. And if they did not hammer Somer, there will be zero ambiguity in the fact that CCP would then NOT consider this RMT and the floodgates are open for the cartels to do this, as well as anyone else with a ton of ISK, a web page and a affiliation with a plex seller.


Frankly, you have no idea what you're talking about. You also have no idea how deep we have to dig to investigate this, given the sheer number of transactions that this service generates.


:iceburn:

I'm disappointed that he didn't mention the Nullsec CCP Somer RMT Botting Cartel though

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Koniforous
Tauren Transit
#304 - 2014-08-19 16:12:31 UTC
Again with official posts regarding SOMERblink. How many times is CCP going to have a PR **** storm before they realize allowing SOMERblink to exist is not in the best interest of EVE Online, the playerbase, and CCP.

I think it's time CCP officially bans Somer, his lotteries, and any of his attempts at anything even remotely related to RMT.

If Somer wants to claim he needs money to maintain his "service," then let him earn it some other way than by converting his in-game earnings into the money necessary to operate his "service." His devoted customers, and all of this free advertising could make him plenty enough to support the upkeep of his server fees. The problem is that he's greedy, and he's attempting to turn his 'community service' into a private for profit business.

If he's claiming his income from these GTC partnerships, and that income far exceeds the overhead costs of running his service, then he has unofficially converted all of his related EVE Online accounts into accounts for the purpose of business and real world profit generation, which is officially against the EULA.

Any and all accounts related should be immediately temporarily banned, his "service" temporarily banned, and there should be an investigation into the amount of isk he has paid out to assist in his real world money generation, there should be an investigation into whether or not there are any businesses held by the actual person who owns the Somerset Mahm accounts, and whether or not those businesses are generating income from EVE Online activities.

I don't mind his lottery website, I've played it a few times and it's actually one of the best designed sites there is. But lets not hide behind the guise of a community service website. If he's generating real world income above operating costs of the service by way of advertising or even GTC partnerships, he's shaming himself, he's deceiving the community, and he's a poison to the game itself.
Sketchy Bob
Mother caking corp
#305 - 2014-08-19 16:12:37 UTC
Am I the only one getting annoyed that the only times CSM members or DEV's post is to pat each others backs and tell the world how awesome the other team is?

How about some actual information or response to the legitimate critic in this thread?
Josef Djugashvilis
#306 - 2014-08-19 16:12:42 UTC
I have a horrible feeling that there will be a, 'clarification of the rules going forward' and that no punishment will be meted out.

I hope I am wrong.

RMT = perma ban.

That is how it works, right?

This is not a signature.

Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#307 - 2014-08-19 16:14:20 UTC
Caius Sivaris wrote:


Connecting those two facts, Somer runs a gambling operation, which is heavily regulated about everywhere. There could well a lot worse coming to Somer than an in game ban... It only take a motivated prosecutor wanting to make a name for himself in whatever county he operates...


I'd love to see that trial. The state vs gambling pixels for pixels player group. Though if it was my country I'd be a little upset at the waste of taxpayer money on such a farce.

You people really need to ease up. Most of you don't seem to even know why you should be angry. You just like raging and make up stuff to get noticed on the forum.

I see about six people that actually understand what Somer is doing. The rest of you just make me laugh.

Mr Epeen Cool
Caius Sivaris
Dark Nexxus
S0ns of Anarchy
#308 - 2014-08-19 16:20:39 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Caius Sivaris wrote:


Connecting those two facts, Somer runs a gambling operation, which is heavily regulated about everywhere. There could well a lot worse coming to Somer than an in game ban... It only take a motivated prosecutor wanting to make a name for himself in whatever county he operates...


I'd love to see that trial. The state vs gambling pixels for pixels player group. Though if it was my country I'd be a little upset at the waste of taxpayer money on such a farce.


You may not take it seriously, but as soon as RL money is involved, the taxman does. And he takes a dim view of loopholes used to run an unregulated (read, untaxed) operation.
Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#309 - 2014-08-19 16:24:34 UTC
Caius Sivaris wrote:
You may not take it seriously, but as soon as RL money is involved, the taxman does. And he takes a dim view of loopholes used to run an unregulated (read, untaxed) operation.


markee dragon withholds affiliate payments past $600 in a year if he doesn't have a W-9 on file, and at the end of the year he sends affiliates making more than $600 from the program a 1099-MISC

stop looking for things that simply aren't the case

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Prince Kobol
#310 - 2014-08-19 16:29:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Prince Kobol
Mr Epeen wrote:


You people really need to ease up. Most of you don't seem to even know why you should be angry. You just like raging and make up stuff to get noticed on the forum.

I see about six people that actually understand what Somer is doing. The rest of you just make me laugh.

Mr Epeen Cool



Would that be that Somer came up with a great idea to increase his income via referrals to Markee Dragon by using an isk base incentive and actually got CCP to agree with it.

Again I find no fault with Somer. The fault lies 100% with CCP for accepting his idea.

You may hate Somer, many people here do and still think he has done wrong when he hasn't as he has not deviated from the agreement with CCP.

The plain fact of the matter is that CCP should of said no but they didn't.

Also am I to believe at no pont did anybody from legal speak to any dev for advice regarding this, I would find that very hard to believe.

Yes I believe Somers scheme is wrong but if CCP did not give it the okay then we would not be here now talking about it
Green Gambit
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#311 - 2014-08-19 16:30:02 UTC
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
Except you cannot pay RL money to SOMER and get blinks to play with. You pay them space money for pixel credits you can gamble with - there's no law to prohibit or control this since whole casino/lottery works with imaginary currency. Only thing law applies to is SOMER's income from PLEX referral link but I'm sure he has it nicely sorted as any responsible adult would do.


That's interesting, because there's a document on the Somer Blink site here: https://cogdev.net/blink/affiliate.rtf that states:

Quote:
A large proportion of people who play Blink buy ETC so they can use some of that ISK to gamble.


So yeah, people are turning real-life money into credits to gamble with - at least according to the people who run the site - and they're in the best position to know that. And it's pretty common for real life money to be turned into credits or ships or something else to actually gamble with.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#312 - 2014-08-19 16:30:34 UTC
Sketchy Bob wrote:
Am I the only one getting annoyed that the only times CSM members or DEV's post is to pat each others backs and tell the world how awesome the other team is?

How about some actual information or response to the legitimate critic in this thread?



Please bear in mind that the CSM are bound by NDA on this. Until CCP releases information, we're not free to speak about it.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

TheButcherPete
Thunderwaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#313 - 2014-08-19 16:31:43 UTC
I'm so thoroughly sick of this.

I've been an advocate for this game, and fought hard to keep my friends playing.

Not only have I ceased this, as EVE isn't even exciting me anymore, but I may quit aswell if CCP does anything less than curbstomp the **** out of Blink for its transgressions.

I mean, wtf CCP. You made them stop last time, but then gave them IWS hulls, and then the special edition Stratios too. Blink members and employees have only ever gotten these without buying them.

I refuse to fight every battle for you CCP, especially when you dig your own hole deeper every turn you get.


In closing, I'd like to say that this deal with Somer, if legit, is going to hurt your bottom line more than it will help.

WAKE UP, CCP, ALL OF YOU.

[b]THE KING OF EVE RADIO

If EVE is real, does that mean all of us are RMTrs?[/b]

Prince Kobol
#314 - 2014-08-19 16:32:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Prince Kobol
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Sketchy Bob wrote:
Am I the only one getting annoyed that the only times CSM members or DEV's post is to pat each others backs and tell the world how awesome the other team is?

How about some actual information or response to the legitimate critic in this thread?



Please bear in mind that the CSM are bound by NDA on this. Until CCP releases information, we're not free to speak about it.



Which means all they can do is tell each other how awesome they are.

Great isn't it ☺
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#315 - 2014-08-19 16:34:47 UTC
Green Gambit wrote:
That's interesting, because there's a document on the Somer Blink site here: https://cogdev.net/blink/affiliate.rtf that states:

Quote:
A large proportion of people who play Blink buy ETC so they can use some of that ISK to gamble.


So yeah, people are turning real-life money into credits to gamble with - at least according to the people who run the site - and they're in the best position to know that. And it's pretty common for real life money to be turned into credits or ships or something else to actually gamble with.


People are using RL money to buy PLEX. They CAN sell PLEX and use ISK to buy credits to gamble at SOMER's site but they also can choose not to do that. Buying PLEX from SOMER doesn't automatically grant you credits to gamble. Not anymore at least.

Invalid signature format

Big Lynx
#316 - 2014-08-19 16:35:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Big Lynx
CCP, I have a part time job in real-life. I am not rich, living in 70m² flat with my wife who is actually unemployed.

However, I managed to be trillionaire in your genious game called EvE. Do I have your permission to flip some of my iskies to rl cash to buy a car or some cool stuff like Somer did? Big smile
Argus Sorn
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#317 - 2014-08-19 16:35:29 UTC
This is a thing again?

How surprising since SOMER basically posted on their site after the initial order to cease that they were looking for loopholes.

SOMER is an RMT scam, an RMT scam that has been showered with praise and gifts from CCP and now this backdoor shenanigans goes down.

We told CCP they needed to keep their hands out of SOMER last time - and apparently no one wants to listen. If this was approved by 'someone' that 'someone' needs to be fired this time.

Ace Boogi
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#318 - 2014-08-19 16:36:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Ace Boogi
Koniforous wrote:
Again with official posts regarding SOMERblink. How many times is CCP going to have a PR **** storm before they realize allowing SOMERblink to exist is not in the best interest of EVE Online, the playerbase, and CCP.

I think it's time CCP officially bans Somer, his lotteries, and any of his attempts at anything even remotely related to RMT.

If Somer wants to claim he needs money to maintain his "service," then let him earn it some other way than by converting his in-game earnings into the money necessary to operate his "service." His devoted customers, and all of this free advertising could make him plenty enough to support the upkeep of his server fees. The problem is that he's greedy, and he's attempting to turn his 'community service' into a private for profit business.

If he's claiming his income from these GTC partnerships, and that income far exceeds the overhead costs of running his service, then he has unofficially converted all of his related EVE Online accounts into accounts for the purpose of business and real world profit generation, which is officially against the EULA.

Any and all accounts related should be immediately temporarily banned, his "service" temporarily banned, and there should be an investigation into the amount of isk he has paid out to assist in his real world money generation, there should be an investigation into whether or not there are any businesses held by the actual person who owns the Somerset Mahm accounts, and whether or not those businesses are generating income from EVE Online activities.

I don't mind his lottery website, I've played it a few times and it's actually one of the best designed sites there is. But lets not hide behind the guise of a community service website. If he's generating real world income above operating costs of the service by way of advertising or even GTC partnerships, he's shaming himself, he's deceiving the community, and he's a poison to the game itself.

He is a weasel. Remember, when CCP gave him a bunch of iScorps, he advised the recepients to lay low and slowly sell them off using alts, etc, basically to manipulate the price by people thinking there was less supply. Also, as someone previously pointed out, this could be used to generate even more RMT profit in the future as well as helping corner the Plex market, as basically Somer is just paying for the Plex what they will cost in a month or two, and then he can go ahead and put them back up on market and resell them for what he paid or more and thus make back the isk bonuses he gives out. It's like generating free isk on top of the IRL cash kickback he gets. Then he goes and says this is some kind of 'community service'... lol.

I also love the part where he says something about 'some people sometimes use some of the isk from the Plex they buy to gamble'.... some!? You're preying on degenerate gambling addicts and you know it, don't give me this **** and bull about what people do with 'some' of their isk.

Try sticking around in their in-game channel and just idling for a while. The things said in the comfort of their echo chamber often show that he more or less views eve's playerbase as a bunch of dumb cattle and that the only thing he actually cares about regarding the community is how much money he can extract from them.

The wording on blink last time and this time around is hilarious, he makes it sound like the affiliate money is only to help pay for server costs, implying that he actually uses his own money maintaining the site and that the ETC sales only help out a bit. However, how I remember it someone calculated he had made over 100K USD off this as of the last scandal in 2013, and that was a very conservative figure. I also recall mention of business locations, data centers, etc., being purchased - someone on the forums here had done research into the real-life Somer, including looking at public records, and while I cannot verify the veracity of those claims, they were pretty damning if indeed true.

I view Somer as a con man, a parasite, and a crook. He operates a shady for-profit business which relies on gambling addictions to make him IRL money, and then he has the gall to try and make himself look like some sort of pillar of the community. Gambling addictions literally destroy lives yet this man claims to be doing the community a service. Any stuff he's done like funding events, etc., is done from a business standpoint, not because he actually cares about people. Case in point, I remember very well during the Plex for Good campaign he was kicking/banning people for discussing it in the Somer channel and for trying to help fundraise. He acted arrogantly, accusing them all of being scammers and just came across as a massive ****. He actively suppressed people trying to help. Then, at the 11th hour he comes out with this very loud and public donation of Plex... dude didn't really give a **** about people, he was just concerned with getting the glory for himself and trying to look like a good dude after the massive backlash to Somergate 2013.

Remember how after CCP deemed their previous *redacted* to be illegal, Somer basically spit in their face by cashing out at 1bil a pop for days after everyone else stopped? And now that he gets caught doing shady **** again, what is his response? A snarky and passive aggressive post on Blink which takes a shot at CCP. Way to treat with contempt those who show you favoritism...
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#319 - 2014-08-19 16:38:10 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Please bear in mind that the CSM are bound by NDA on this. Until CCP releases information, we're not free to speak about it.


Ah, NDA. Three letters keeping raging mob of RL psychos at bay.

Invalid signature format

POS Trader
Merchants of Lore
#320 - 2014-08-19 16:38:31 UTC
Green Gambit wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
Man, if only gambling was integrated with the game and players didn't need third party sites for it.


CCP won't do that, as there are specific laws/regulations/taxes/etc that cover gambling in most places in the world. As you can convert real money into credits to gamble, CCPs business is running a MMORPG - not an online casino.

Now third parties, like Somer Blink, who are encouraging people to buy credits to gamble, and actually running online casinos are responsible for making sure that they conform with laws/regulations/taxes/etc covering running an online casino.


Yeah, all the regulations with fake funny-money that cannot be exhcanged for $$$. There is no laws that ban betting with imagine, no-value space pixels. If your country has those, then you are in more serious trouble than you think.