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Community Concerns Regarding SOMERblink

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Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#81 - 2014-08-19 04:00:28 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:

Still you.


Next time, say that with more foot stomping, the tantrum might have more of an effect that way.


the basic problem is you're simply not smart enough to participate in this discussion which is why you're only getting dismissive analogies that make clear to all readers why you're wrong (though probably not you, through no fault of the analogy)

any thinking person can realize how you can determine intent through actions (it is indeed the only way to determine intent): by looking at what somer wrote and seeing how carefully it implied X while not saying X and carefully making sure you could do the exact opposite of X, anyone who can reason from actions can see that's intentional

everyone who reads that the first time sees what somer wanted people to see and it's only once you read carefully (or know what somer was doing) you see the clauses that basically reverse the intent of the whole thing

you don't do that by accident, but unfortunately i regret this probably is a little advanced so i hope you have a good night and are a little sharper in the morning
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#82 - 2014-08-19 04:00:41 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:

Still you.


Next time, say that with more foot stomping, the tantrum might have more of an effect that way.

Did you know that words and analogies lose their effect when you use them in situations where they don't apply?


Denial doesn't remove their meaning, but acceptance will lead to you becoming a better person.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#83 - 2014-08-19 04:00:49 UTC
This is like putting together a puzzle which was put into the wrong box, and Remiel here is arguing that until we put every piece of the puzzle together we can't conclude that the puzzle isn't the same as the picture on the box.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#84 - 2014-08-19 04:02:23 UTC
that every puzzle piece is yellow or neon pink is no evidence that this is not the puzzle of saint peter's basilica i purchased

where is the evidence, people
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#85 - 2014-08-19 04:02:31 UTC
Quote:
Blink provides no extra ISK or bonus Blink credit for buying through the link. Instead, we make it easy to sell your PLEX and get your ISK quickly, no matter where you are-- no Jita alt required. This is a service, in keeping with CCP's new guidelines that ETC affiliate link rewards should be service-oriented.

[...]

1. 1. Blink messaging: "Buy your Eve Time Codes through SOMER Blink and we'll buy your PLEX from you! No need to spend time flying to Jita to sell-- we guarantee we'll give you the best price!"

[...]

• Players who want more ISK value from their PLEX than they could get selling it by themselves will be encouraged to spend money on PLEX, since they are guaranteed the best price in the Eve universe


if you cannot see how this ambiguous wording was clearly intended to deceive the reader I have no words

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
S'Way
State War Academy
Caldari State
#86 - 2014-08-19 04:02:35 UTC
A game only holds it's integrity if all are playing by the same rules - whatever the result is of any investigation there needs to be no doubt that everyone is doing so.

Given previous incidents (which don't need to be mentioned), I hope there's as much transparancy as possible once the investigation is over so players can have confidence in it.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#87 - 2014-08-19 04:02:59 UTC
Retar Aveymone wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:

Still you.


Next time, say that with more foot stomping, the tantrum might have more of an effect that way.


the basic problem is you're simply not smart enough to participate in this discussion which is why you're only getting dismissive analogies that make clear to all readers why you're wrong (though probably not you, through no fault of the analogy)

any thinking person can realize how you can determine intent through actions (it is indeed the only way to determine intent): by looking at what somer wrote and seeing how carefully it implied X while not saying X and carefully making sure you could do the exact opposite of X, anyone who can reason from actions can see that's intentional

everyone who reads that the first time sees what somer wanted people to see and it's only once you read carefully (or know what somer was doing) you see the clauses that basically reverse the intent of the whole thing

you don't do that by accident, but unfortunately i regret this probably is a little advanced so i hope you have a good night and are a little sharper in the morning


Your implied insult of my intellect is noted and dismissed on account of your habit of making biased assumptions without knowing a damn about the subject of them. In other words, pot, meet kettle.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#88 - 2014-08-19 04:04:54 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
This is like putting together a puzzle which was put into the wrong box, and Remiel here is arguing that until we put every piece of the puzzle together we can't conclude that the puzzle isn't the same as the picture on the box.


Let's keep it simple, shall we? I'm arguing against making assumptions and jumping to unsubstantiated conclusions. That's all. If you don't like that, then you probably won't like the outcome anyway, regardless of what it may be.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#89 - 2014-08-19 04:05:56 UTC
Andski wrote:
Quote:
Blink provides no extra ISK or bonus Blink credit for buying through the link. Instead, we make it easy to sell your PLEX and get your ISK quickly, no matter where you are-- no Jita alt required. This is a service, in keeping with CCP's new guidelines that ETC affiliate link rewards should be service-oriented.

[...]

1. 1. Blink messaging: "Buy your Eve Time Codes through SOMER Blink and we'll buy your PLEX from you! No need to spend time flying to Jita to sell-- we guarantee we'll give you the best price!"

[...]

• Players who want more ISK value from their PLEX than they could get selling it by themselves will be encouraged to spend money on PLEX, since they are guaranteed the best price in the Eve universe


if you cannot see how this ambiguous wording was clearly intended to deceive the reader I have no words

Actually that first bolded part would seem to be a flat out lie.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#90 - 2014-08-19 04:07:12 UTC
Unsubstantiated. Huh.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Rakshasa Taisab
Sane Industries Inc.
#91 - 2014-08-19 04:07:18 UTC
So when can I start my own ISK bonus for PLEX referral business?

I'll keep it very clean and simple, no fluff like betting schemes or anything.

Nyan
Ohkewl
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#92 - 2014-08-19 04:12:43 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Ohkewl wrote:
That guy pays his freelance writers in isk

Which is allowed

Ohkewl wrote:
and pretty much lives of the money generated by the site he places the articles on. If that's not a business idk what is.

That money comes from ad revenue. Are you seriously suggesting that EVE websites not be allowed to run ads? Because that's absurd.


So all Somer has to do is:
1. everyone buying plex through their site also needs to write an article (lets say min 3 max 20 words)
2. Somer buys these articles for isk and puts them on a websit
3. Markeedragon has a banner on the site and pays Somer for the advertising.

There you go, a legitemate newsite.
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#93 - 2014-08-19 04:14:05 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Andski wrote:
Quote:
Blink provides no extra ISK or bonus Blink credit for buying through the link. Instead, we make it easy to sell your PLEX and get your ISK quickly, no matter where you are-- no Jita alt required. This is a service, in keeping with CCP's new guidelines that ETC affiliate link rewards should be service-oriented.

[...]

1. 1. Blink messaging: "Buy your Eve Time Codes through SOMER Blink and we'll buy your PLEX from you! No need to spend time flying to Jita to sell-- we guarantee we'll give you the best price!"

[...]

• Players who want more ISK value from their PLEX than they could get selling it by themselves will be encouraged to spend money on PLEX, since they are guaranteed the best price in the Eve universe


if you cannot see how this ambiguous wording was clearly intended to deceive the reader I have no words

Actually that first bolded part would seem to be a flat out lie.

you don't get extra isk for buying through the link

you get extra isk through the separate sale back to somer, which is something different under the structure he set up

i think you can make a good argument he got too clever for himself here and that the top line actually controls throughout and that he didn't succeed in getting ccp sanction for his latest rmt scheme, but he's definitely trying and whoever signed off on it definitely didn't read it closely
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#94 - 2014-08-19 04:14:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
Ohkewl wrote:
So all Somer has to do is:
1. everyone buying plex through their site also needs to write an article (lets say min 3 max 20 words)
2. Somer buys these articles for isk and puts them on a websit
3. Markeedragon has a banner on the site and pays Somer for the advertising.

There you go, a legitemate newsite.



except that's not what TMC or other news sites do at all

on the other hand, if TMC offered you ISK for buying yourself a game through their amazon affiliate program, that would most certainly be clear-cut RMT

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#95 - 2014-08-19 04:14:24 UTC
Rakshasa Taisab wrote:
So when can I start my own ISK bonus for PLEX referral business?


Why stop with an ISK incentive?

You could always give a discount for bulk purchases or one of the other incentives that are common with the resellers. This Somer hate is going to (has) open a can of worms. I look forward to seeing how the 3rd party landscape looks when the dust settles.

Mr Epeen Cool
Cherry Yeyo
Doomheim
#96 - 2014-08-19 04:15:38 UTC
Killdeer Okel wrote:
In the end, If this "Lisa" from CCP approved it, which looks possible, then the program will go away, but there will be a slap on the wrist as CCP will need to take the fall for the deception. I guess CCP is no better than a Newbie in Jita. They need more practice watching the scams that are run in the game.

The real question is: why is Somer emailing "Lisa" who is clearly a sales executive about this, and not a Senior GM or something..

.
Voyager Arran
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#97 - 2014-08-19 04:20:02 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
If Somer are in the wrong, then I agree they should face the appropriate measures for bad behaviour. However, when I look down a street and see a swathe of pitchforks and torches, I only hope that whoever pissed them off gets away with it, regardless of what they've done, because that mindless crowd gives humanity a worse name than the perpetrator they are after.


You are edgy and cool and we would all be very happy if you stopped posting.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#98 - 2014-08-19 04:20:21 UTC
Cherry Yeyo wrote:
The real question is: why is Somer emailing "Lisa" who is clearly a sales executive about this, and not a Senior GM or something..


Lisa is with CCP legal, not with sales

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Hendrick Tallardar
Doomheim
#99 - 2014-08-19 04:24:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Hendrick Tallardar
Cherry Yeyo wrote:
Killdeer Okel wrote:
In the end, If this "Lisa" from CCP approved it, which looks possible, then the program will go away, but there will be a slap on the wrist as CCP will need to take the fall for the deception. I guess CCP is no better than a Newbie in Jita. They need more practice watching the scams that are run in the game.

The real question is: why is Somer emailing "Lisa" who is clearly a sales executive about this, and not a Senior GM or something..


Through the magic of "Google" (some arcane thing I know very little the purpose of)

She is the Senior VP of Global Sales for CCP Games.

http://schedule2013.gdconf.com/speaker/bell-cabrera_lisa.29637

Andski wrote:
Cherry Yeyo wrote:
The real question is: why is Somer emailing "Lisa" who is clearly a sales executive about this, and not a Senior GM or something..


Lisa is with CCP legal, not with sales


GDC would disagree mon ami.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#100 - 2014-08-19 04:26:45 UTC
I note how the 'E-mail permission' doesn't have the actual exact details of the permission in it, and how we have no evidence that even the proposal he published was the actual one in discussion in the E-mail.
Especially since the E-mails talk about a May proposal and it would be..... August.
Smoking gun?