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Give Geckos light drone or medium AI as a bandaid fix.

First post
Author
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting
Doomheim
#1 - 2014-08-17 17:09:34 UTC  |  Edited by: NoLife NoFriends StillPosting
Geckos need a different AI. The Gecko was supposed to make up for the loss of bonuses on light and medium drones on the Rattlesnake in PVE, but the heavy drone AI makes it a annoying micromanagement burden. Instead of destroying all the aggroed ships of a type, frigates or cruisers, as light and medium drones would do, the Gecko always wants to return to whatever battleship you are shooting at after it destroys its target, or wants to go pop the BS trigger, whatever it may be, forcing you to lock each individual ship. Its important to note that the Rattlesnake is capable of locking a maximum of 7 only targets. Destroying frigates and cruisers shouldn't be so much of a PITA , having to reassign them constantly and losing DPS.

Because of this, I find the former iteration of the Rattlesnake far more preferable to play. The elimination of creative play via reduction of drone bay from 400m3 to 175m3 was also unappreciated.

Giving Geckos light or medium drone AI should be an easy band-aid fix while we wait for better drone AI improvements.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#2 - 2014-08-17 18:39:56 UTC
1. Geckos are "limited edition" items. Your request is like asking for frigate versions of the Primae or cruiser versions of the Zephyr.

2. You complaint has more to do with the drone AI than anything else. You might want to focus more on that aspect in your request/proposal.

3. Try changing up your tactics a bit? Rather than brawl up close with a Gecko and risk hitting triggers (and be overwhelmed) why not employ a MJD and sentries... picking stuff off at range.


Also... the Rattlesnake is pretty beastly (my drones can't be killed anymore!! Muhahaha!).
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#3 - 2014-08-17 19:06:53 UTC
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting wrote:
The Gecko was supposed to make up for the loss of bonuses on light and medium drones on the Rattlesnake in PVE.

No it wasn't, they were a present.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#4 - 2014-08-17 19:10:01 UTC
All drone AI is the same...
DrysonBennington
Eagle's Talon's
#5 - 2014-08-17 19:44:31 UTC
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting wrote:
Geckos need a different AI. The Gecko was supposed to make up for the loss of bonuses on light and medium drones on the Rattlesnake in PVE, but the heavy drone AI makes it a annoying micromanagement burden. Instead of destroying all the aggroed ships of a type, frigates or cruisers, as light and medium drones would do, the Gecko always wants to return to whatever battleship you are shooting at after it destroys its target, or wants to go pop the BS trigger, whatever it may be. Destroying frigates and cruisers shouldn't be so much of a PITA , having to reassign them constantly and losing DPS.

Because of this, I find the former iteration of the Rattlesnake far more preferable to play. The elimination of creative play via reduction of drone bay from 400m3 to 175m3 was also unappreciated.

Giving Geckos light or medium drone AI should be an easy band-aid fix while we wait for better drone AI improvements.



Fix the Gecko's so they at least have the same bandwidth as Large Drones so that four of them can be used.
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#6 - 2014-08-17 20:02:17 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
All drone AI is the same...

with the exception that drones attempt to agro things based on the signature size they can hit when on aggressive and there are no active aggressive modules on the owner's ship.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp

Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#7 - 2014-08-17 20:23:00 UTC
Geckos are not meant to fill any particular niche. They are one off gifts, and when they are gone they are gone. Unless you start seeing blueprints for them somewhere, your request is pointless
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting
Doomheim
#8 - 2014-08-18 15:13:07 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
All drone AI is the same...


wrong
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2014-08-18 15:31:03 UTC
DrysonBennington wrote:
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting wrote:
Geckos need a different AI. The Gecko was supposed to make up for the loss of bonuses on light and medium drones on the Rattlesnake in PVE, but the heavy drone AI makes it a annoying micromanagement burden. Instead of destroying all the aggroed ships of a type, frigates or cruisers, as light and medium drones would do, the Gecko always wants to return to whatever battleship you are shooting at after it destroys its target, or wants to go pop the BS trigger, whatever it may be. Destroying frigates and cruisers shouldn't be so much of a PITA , having to reassign them constantly and losing DPS.

Because of this, I find the former iteration of the Rattlesnake far more preferable to play. The elimination of creative play via reduction of drone bay from 400m3 to 175m3 was also unappreciated.

Giving Geckos light or medium drone AI should be an easy band-aid fix while we wait for better drone AI improvements.



Fix the Gecko's so they at least have the same bandwidth as Large Drones so that four of them can be used.


Do you know how broken that would be?

wtf.

I had more, but "wtf" is as constructive as I can be,
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting
Doomheim
#10 - 2014-08-18 15:31:37 UTC  |  Edited by: NoLife NoFriends StillPosting
DrysonBennington wrote:
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting wrote:
Geckos need a different AI. The Gecko was supposed to make up for the loss of bonuses on light and medium drones on the Rattlesnake in PVE, but the heavy drone AI makes it a annoying micromanagement burden. Instead of destroying all the aggroed ships of a type, frigates or cruisers, as light and medium drones would do, the Gecko always wants to return to whatever battleship you are shooting at after it destroys its target, or wants to go pop the BS trigger, whatever it may be. Destroying frigates and cruisers shouldn't be so much of a PITA , having to reassign them constantly and losing DPS.

Because of this, I find the former iteration of the Rattlesnake far more preferable to play. The elimination of creative play via reduction of drone bay from 400m3 to 175m3 was also unappreciated.

Giving Geckos light or medium drone AI should be an easy band-aid fix while we wait for better drone AI improvements.



Fix the Gecko's so they at least have the same bandwidth as Large Drones so that four of them can be used.


This would make them preferable to heavy drones in every scenario, making heavy drones obsolete. The Gecko is the only saving grace of CCP Rise shitting up the Rattlesnake so bad. The least they could do is give it proper AI. Geckos are the worst heavy drone choice vs Battleships and they always want to go after them after each frigate or cruiser it kills. It needs to prioritize the ship type they are targeted upon and cruisers given higher priority than battleships. And yes, the Gecko was meant to make up for the loss of bonuses medium drones, lights (albeit poorly), and needs to have the proper AI to match.

I have not seen CCP Rise make one change due to player feedback in the official feedback threads for his balance changes. Disgusting.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#11 - 2014-08-19 00:26:19 UTC
Removed some off topic posts. Keep it on topic, thanks.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#12 - 2014-08-19 00:45:33 UTC
Fabulous Rod alt detected.

Oh, and I have not experienced any issues with the Gecko AI. It requires a bit of micro, but that's the case with all heavy drones, and it's made up for in a large degree thanks to how fast the Gecko is.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

NoLife NoFriends StillPosting
Doomheim
#13 - 2014-08-20 17:31:15 UTC
It looks like none can offer any reason why we shouldn't have this change.

As someone who has trained exclusively for a Torp fit, passive-shield tanked Rattlesnake that primarily uses light and medium drones, this change would go a long way to restoring the playstyle that was ruined for me and no doubht other players by the Rattlesnake changes. It would mean a lot to me if we could have this band-aid fix come Hyperion. It can't be terribly difficult to do and it would go a long way towards making the Rattlesnake less of the heavy micro-management burden that it has become.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#14 - 2014-08-20 17:49:41 UTC
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting wrote:


As someone who has trained exclusively for a Torp fit, passive-shield tanked Rattlesnake that primarily uses light and medium drones,


This is a very poor use of this ship.
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting
Doomheim
#15 - 2014-08-20 18:03:53 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting wrote:


As someone who has trained exclusively for a Torp fit, passive-shield tanked Rattlesnake that primarily uses light and medium drones,


This is a very poor use of this ship.


We already established that you don't know what you are talking about, as per usual.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#16 - 2014-08-20 18:04:49 UTC
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting wrote:


We already established that you don't know what you are talking about, as per usual.


Post that fit and you will be shown how its bad.
Dehval
Ascendance Rising
Ascendance..
#17 - 2014-08-20 18:29:34 UTC
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting wrote:
Geckos are the worst heavy drone choice vs Battleships and they always want to go after them after each frigate or cruiser it kills.

All heavy drones/sentries prioritize battleships over smaller targets (unless the smaller target attacks first) because they are most likely to actually hit these. This is not a unique quirk of the Gecko. This is more of a problem you have with the AI of Heavy Drones in general and you would garner more support if you were to champion for a more robust drone UI.

Quote:
And yes, the Gecko was meant to make up for the loss of bonuses medium drones, lights (albeit poorly), and needs to have the proper AI to match.

Nowhere has it ever been stated that the Gecko was meant to make up for the lack of the smaller drones. Just because it is what you think does not make it true and I am going to need a link of proof to wherever this statement was made.

Finally, the change in drone bay has not hindered the ship as much as you would like to claim. Previously 400m3 was 3 flights of heavy drones and 25m3 to spare. The new 175m3 is... 3 flights of heavy drones with 25m3 to spare.
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#18 - 2014-08-20 18:57:19 UTC
Dehval wrote:

All heavy drones/sentries prioritize battleships over smaller targets (unless the smaller target attacks first) because they are most likely to actually hit these. This is not a unique quirk of the Gecko. This is more of a problem you have with the AI of Heavy Drones in general and you would garner more support if you were to champion for a more robust drone UI.

It is not an issue with any particular AI. The AI all runs the same script, which compares the sig radius of its weapon systems to that of the targets and then decides what to aggro based on that amongst other, more arcane, criteria.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp

NoLife NoFriends StillPosting
Doomheim
#19 - 2014-08-20 19:03:53 UTC  |  Edited by: NoLife NoFriends StillPosting
Dehval wrote:
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting wrote:
Geckos are the worst heavy drone choice vs Battleships and they always want to go after them after each frigate or cruiser it kills.

All heavy drones/sentries prioritize battleships over smaller targets (unless the smaller target attacks first) because they are most likely to actually hit these. This is not a unique quirk of the Gecko. This is more of a problem you have with the AI of Heavy Drones in general and you would garner more support if you were to champion for a more robust drone UI.

Quote:
And yes, the Gecko was meant to make up for the loss of bonuses medium drones, lights (albeit poorly), and needs to have the proper AI to match.

Nowhere has it ever been stated that the Gecko was meant to make up for the lack of the smaller drones. Just because it is what you think does not make it true and I am going to need a link of proof to wherever this statement was made.

Finally, the change in drone bay has not hindered the ship as much as you would like to claim. Previously 400m3 was 3 flights of heavy drones and 25m3 to spare. The new 175m3 is... 3 flights of heavy drones with 25m3 to spare.


CCP doesn't always spell everything out for you, even if some of you desperately need it.

The Gecko seems to fullfill the role of medium drones. It even requires the same bandwidth of 5 medium drones. It also has the highest tracking to be found on a heavy drone, comparable to medium drones.

Equally. How can you prove that the Gecko is not intended for this role? Given the loss of bonuses on light and medium drones, it seems more likely than not. The fact it is a Guristas drone and the Rattlesnake is the only Guristas ship that can use it should be telling you something as well.

The loss of 400m3 drone bay eliminated the ability to use the perfect light or medium drone type for whatever may be encounterd, it also eliminated any possibilities of creative play with heavy utility drones.

You couldn't be more wrong.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#20 - 2014-08-20 19:31:29 UTC
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting wrote:


Equally. How can you prove that the Gecko is not intended for this role?


The fact that its own description states that it is a heavy drone and that it it sold as a heavy drone.
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