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SOE ships for pvp rather than exploration
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Reynas Arthie
Doomheim
#1 - 2014-08-18 22:45:00 UTC
I have liked Amarr ships since eve went live. (This is a toon I bought after coming back from a few years break)

I like some Gallente ships like incursus/atron even before they became the FOTM like now.

So looking at the current line up of ships I noticed the SOE ships (Astero and Stratios) and by the looks of it the Amarr/Gallente ship line would see a fair bit of harmony with the skills used i.e. armour/gunnery/drones.

So my question is how good are the SOE ships for dedicated combat rather than sue their bonus for exploration? Not too worried about price and more than happy to lose a fair few basic amarr/gallente ships while I get back into pvp.

Also any sample fits would be a boost.

Cheers

RA o7
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#2 - 2014-08-18 22:57:40 UTC
In a fleet, they are wonderful bricks and take much killing. The lack of a damage bonus hurts them, but the range bonus partially compensates. They also have the mids and cov-ops ability to be great initial tackle in an armor gang which wants to pick its fight carefully.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
Reynas Arthie
Doomheim
#3 - 2014-08-18 23:04:17 UTC
Doesn't the Stratios have a damage bonus to drones? Was kinda thinking it would be decent as an upgraded pilgrim with lasers and drone to put out some decent DPS from a cloaked attack.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#4 - 2014-08-18 23:19:12 UTC
In the right setups with the right equipment, the Astero can tank like a bawss and grind down multiple small targets.

The problem is that neuts make it cry, its price tag attracts people to it, and it is slow (allowing people attracted to it, grab it).

How did you Veterans start?
Reynas Arthie
Doomheim
#5 - 2014-08-19 00:15:47 UTC
ah okies.

So I'll stick with my tormentors, incursus' for general frig pvp muckry and reserve the astero for more ninja gank style.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#6 - 2014-08-19 01:20:47 UTC
Reynas Arthie wrote:
ah okies.

So I'll stick with my tormentors, incursus' for general frig pvp muckry and reserve the astero for more ninja gank style.

Hold on there... even in a "ganking" setup the Astero has problems getting ~200 dps while maintaining some kind of tank and range control (I am tinkering with a *blech* shield setup in EFT).

In a way, it handles like the Incursus (with all its strengths and weaknesses) except it has a cloak and uses drones for damage.
Basically, its stats and bonuses are geared more for "endurance brawling" rather than "gank, and slip to the right."

How did you Veterans start?
Reynas Arthie
Doomheim
#7 - 2014-08-19 01:24:51 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Reynas Arthie wrote:
ah okies.

So I'll stick with my tormentors, incursus' for general frig pvp muckry and reserve the astero for more ninja gank style.

Hold on there... even in a "ganking" setup the Astero has problems getting ~200 dps while maintaining some kind of tank and range control (I am tinkering with a *blech* shield setup in EFT).

In a way, it handles like the Incursus (with all its strengths and weaknesses) except it has a cloak and uses drones for damage.
Basically, its stats and bonuses are geared more for "endurance brawling" rather than "gank, and slip to the right."


Gotya. Think I'll still give it a go although it seems an iskur might be better suited to the job....hmmm might just have to break out a vengeance instead (love the black punisher!)

What about the Stratios? That seems to have a bit more go for combat.
Farrokh Bvlsara
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2014-08-19 07:19:26 UTC
Blaster Stratios seems to work very well, enjoying 600+ DPS and a decent EHP/tank.
While still being able to use a cloak to only fight what you want.
ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2014-08-19 09:05:31 UTC
Full tackle, cap booster, decent tank, 500dps, probe launcher and a cloak.... whats not to love?

No Worries
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2014-08-19 10:14:32 UTC
ChromeStriker wrote:
Full tackle, cap booster, decent tank, 500dps, probe launcher and a cloak.... whats not to love?



If I coudl chose.. I would move 1 mid to 1 low....

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2014-08-19 10:29:24 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
ChromeStriker wrote:
Full tackle, cap booster, decent tank, 500dps, probe launcher and a cloak.... whats not to love?



If I coudl chose.. I would move 1 mid to 1 low....


Na... because then id have trouble shield tanking it Lol

No Worries
Jaari Val'Dara
Grim Sleepers
#12 - 2014-08-19 12:14:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Jaari Val'Dara
Stratios in wormholes is awesome. In my patented shield fit stratios I do 656dps while having neuting power and somewhat decent tank.

[Stratios, shield]

Damage Control II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Republic Fleet Large Shield Extender
Republic Fleet Large Shield Extender
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Sisters Core Probe Launcher

Medium Core Defense Field Extender II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender II
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II


Garde II x4
Hammerhead II x5
Hobgoblin II x5
Hornet EC-300 x5
Bouncer II x4
Gecko x2


If you want to drop the neuts you can increase your dps even more, if you want more tank, go for armor tank with guns.

This is the fit I haven't flown, but seems nice enough. It's a bit more expensive, but does 693dps (more if you dont use lasers) and has 10k more tank, while still having more mids free for good stuff.

[Stratios, armor]

Damage Control II
Imperial Navy Drone Damage Amplifier
Imperial Navy Drone Damage Amplifier
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane

Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Tracking Speed Disruption Script
Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Tracking Speed Disruption Script
Republic Fleet 10MN Afterburner

Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Sisters Core Probe Launcher

Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Anti-Explosive Pump II


Gecko x2


Though in my opinion neuts are better, since you will be going against ratting ships with active tank.
Farrokh Bvlsara
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2014-08-20 05:46:57 UTC
You're not going to cap drain any BS though, so higher DPS might be better.
Jaari Val'Dara
Grim Sleepers
#14 - 2014-08-20 07:53:38 UTC
Farrokh Bvlsara wrote:
You're not going to cap drain any BS though, so higher DPS might be better.

True, but it is more geared at taking down T3s, which it can drain quite easily.
Fenris Orion
Strata Victoria
Of Essence
#15 - 2014-08-20 08:25:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Fenris Orion
Recently started toying with the Astero, myself. I went the unconventional route with a shield tank for the sake of more speed and dps. It flies essentially like a Super Tristan. The bonus to drone hit points helps keep drones on target longer and being able to carry three flights gives you lots of spares. Using an Overdrive-II and an Auxiliary Thrusters rig makes it fly 3,300+ m/s cold to stay well outside web/scram/neut/brawl range.

It makes a fantastic fleet scout/tackle. In the least you can provide a precise warp in for your fleet. Solo I feel comfortable engaging anything that I know to be slower than me, and the worst thing that can happen is I loose drones and have to bail. So far I've racked up kills on several T1 frigs, a Hookbill, several destroyers, and even a Moa today.

[Astero - Ghost]

Covert-Ops Cloak II

Warp Disruptor II
Limited Invulnerability field (optionally a TD or Sensor Damp)
Meta-4 Medium Shield Extender
Limited MWD

Internal Force Field Array
Overdrive Injector II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Core Defense Field Extender
Auxiliary Thrusters
Ancillary Current Router

Hobgoblin-II's, Warrior-II's, and Acolyte-II's
Fenris Orion
Strata Victoria
Of Essence
#16 - 2014-08-20 21:55:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Fenris Orion
Decided to take another look at the Stratios. For ambush-pvp I have always loved my Proteus, and still think the Prote is overall the best for this. The Stratios, however, does seem to have a niche as support-dps from range that no one is talking about. If you want a cloaky neuting boat, why not fly the Pilgrim?

4x Garde-II's + 3x DDAs + 4x Heavy Pulse Lasers with Scorch (or 200mm Railguns with Spike) = 660-700+ dps, more than most Covert-Proteus'. I'd think flying this would be fun, allowing a T3 to engage and tackle first, then decloak, drop sentries, and engage from 30-60km out.

Using Osmium for the first time to see how I might fit this thing:

https://o.smium.org/loadout/11158

Thoughts?
Chessur
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#17 - 2014-08-21 11:25:05 UTC
All of the SoE ships are very lackluster for PvP. In my honest opinion- I would look elsewhere for a PvP ship. While yes, they can kill a few targets- They simply don't have the bonuses to really be a stable solo / small gang PvP ship that is going to provide you with a wide engagement profile.

Suffice it to say, but there are many other ships out there that will do the job better, for a much cheap cost- while at the same time providing you a larger list of viable engage-able targets
Rabe Raptor
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#18 - 2014-08-22 08:17:22 UTC
its not that you can't find a reasonably viable role for them.. its just that other ships do better anything the SOE ships do combat-related.

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Nick Starkey
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2014-08-22 19:57:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Nick Starkey
Here's an overview of SOE ships:

frigate - it sucks. It's the only (non LE) covert cloak capable frigate with actual combat ability, and its bonuses couldn't be any worse. The damage is very underwhelming (around 120dps) since you only have 1 (or possiblly 0) gun slots, it lacks a drone damage bonus and the low slots are competing for both tank and damage output. You can get some solid dualrep setups with a cap booster and a web but you can't help but think why spend 80m on a ship that is subpar to just about any assault frigate out there. It's also worse than a covert ops for what hacking is concerned (cloaking delay bonus, lack of mid slots, slower warp speed, less bonus to hacking). The target decloaking delay also makes it futile to try and gank other people with it since the only things that you can lock fast enough before warping off are going to be cruisers and above which you are unable to kill anyway. It's only really good for ganking other explorers when they aren't paying attention.

cruiser - absolutely amazing. It's the hardest hitting cloaky ganker of the game, even more than a proteus and can mount a comparable tank to a T3 hull. It has an abudance of slots and solid damage output with geckos and medium pulses (which you can replace for blasters for a lulzy 750+ DPS). You can also PVE quite well with it but a tengu or an ishtar is more cost efficient.

battleship - goddamn awful, expensive and useless. it's a design failure that tries to be a lot of things at once but fails at every single one of them. Terrible RR range, awful capacitor stability, extremly slow, has a bunch of useless bonuses like hacking strength (lol) and is ridiculously expensive. Its upcomming buffs are only breaking the ship into more roles which it will continue failing at.

tl;dr stratios is baller, the rest sucks.

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Fenris Orion
Strata Victoria
Of Essence
#20 - 2014-08-24 16:45:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Fenris Orion
Nick Starkey wrote:
Here's an overview of SOE ships:

frigate - it sucks.....The target decloaking delay also makes it futile to try and gank other people with it since the only things that you can lock fast enough before warping off are going to be cruisers and above which you are unable to kill anyway.

cruiser - absolutely amazing. It's the hardest hitting cloaky ganker of the game, even more than a proteus and can mount a comparable tank to a T3 hull. It has an abudance of slots and solid damage output with geckos and medium pulses (which you can replace for blasters for a lulzy 750+ DPS).


There is so much fail in this comment. First of all, the 6 second targetting delay is offset by the Asteros relatively high scan res, and most people are watching d-scan for threats, not expecting something to decloak right next to them. You'll catch the vast majority of what you decide to engage simply because you're not what they're expecting. Second, I've taken a Moa down pretty easily, put top damage on a Hawk, taken several T1 frigates and destroyers solo, and provided initial tackle on an Ashimu and an Ishtar. All but the Minmitar AF's are slowww. Frankly, you shouldn't be brawling in a drone boat, especially a frigate, when you can selectively engage things that can't hit you in a 20km orbit. This gives you all kinds of target opportunities.

Also, the Stratios does seem to be a fantastic ship, but you will never touch the tank/dps combination of the Proteus in one. A "lightly" tanked cloaky Proteus setup for maximum gank can do >700dps and still have >85,000ehp. [Edit: it does do more dps with geckos than with sentries.]

I think those that doubt the Astero either haven't actually tried to make it work, or didn't know what they were doing and failed hard, once, and didn't try again. No, it doesn't have the ridiculous 200% damage bonus that the pirate frigates get, but it has the ultimate target-selection option that the Covert-Ops cloak provides.

Worked up an armor repping kite fit that might be more appealing to the OP. It would fly more like a Slicer but with drones.

https://o.smium.org/loadout/11305
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