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Somer Blink

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Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#241 - 2014-08-18 18:18:12 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
E1 was never banned retrospectively or for any in game activity. He was banned because he posted the recordings of those who he scammed in order to humiliate them, plan and simple. As far as CCP was concerned, he broke the EULA/TOS in regards to harassment. Yes you can argue that those rules are vague, yes you can argue that it happened out of game, however he was not banned retrospectively.
Which wasn't against the EULA/ToS. Technically, it still isn't. the EULA/ToS does not extend beyond the bounds of the game, and people post things ALL the time to humiliate people. Not to mention that the other people involved in producing and recording that (afaik, E1 didn't even record or post it) were not banned. He was banned after the fact, with even the victim calling for him to be left alone. THAT was a witch hunt. A guy RMTing, getting told to stop, then RMTing again is certainly not.

Prince Kobol wrote:
Of course people are going to try and engage in RMT, just like people will always push the rules to breaking point and will happily break rules.

You can not have a game like Eve and not expect people to break the rules and try and get away with it.

Even if CCP made it so that if you are caught involved in RMT you will receive a lifetime ban on all of your accounts, people will still do it.

You can not say that if you approach CCP with an idea and they consider it to be a method of RMT that you will banned. If anything you want to encourage people to go to CCP in the first instance to see if their idea is okay. In this instance it appears that this is the case.
If they don't get banned, all that shows is that if you can come up with a convoluted way to run RMT, then the rules don't apply to you and it doesn't matter that the act of RMTing itself is against the rules. That's really not the type of thing I would expect to see from a serious MMO developer.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#242 - 2014-08-18 18:27:24 UTC
Rayo Atra wrote:
Really though, i do take issue with "rigged" and "losing all the iskies"


I am currently 928.75% ahead of my initial investment over the last 12 months.
You realise that being rigged doesn't mean noone ever wins from the system, right? They run shill accounts, accounts that take credit out of the excess pool. These accounts will win more often than the average player, then extract that isk. If previous claims are to be believed, they then RMT the isk from some shill accounts, burning the shill account in the process and maintaining a degree of separation.

Actual players being actual winners are a requirement, as that's how they sell themselves. Amusingly they show the total isk won vs total deposited to confuse the idiots into thinking they've won more than they have, since they reinvest their winnings, so a 100m deposit might win billions of isk, yet only pay out 80m, since it was cycled.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#243 - 2014-08-18 18:32:16 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
E1 was never banned retrospectively or for any in game activity. He was banned because he posted the recordings of those who he scammed in order to humiliate them, plan and simple. As far as CCP was concerned, he broke the EULA/TOS in regards to harassment. Yes you can argue that those rules are vague, yes you can argue that it happened out of game, however he was not banned retrospectively.
Which wasn't against the EULA/ToS. Technically, it still isn't. the EULA/ToS does not extend beyond the bounds of the game, and people post things ALL the time to humiliate people. Not to mention that the other people involved in producing and recording that (afaik, E1 didn't even record or post it) were not banned. He was banned after the fact, with even the victim calling for him to be left alone. THAT was a witch hunt. A guy RMTing, getting told to stop, then RMTing again is certainly not.

Prince Kobol wrote:
Of course people are going to try and engage in RMT, just like people will always push the rules to breaking point and will happily break rules.

You can not have a game like Eve and not expect people to break the rules and try and get away with it.

Even if CCP made it so that if you are caught involved in RMT you will receive a lifetime ban on all of your accounts, people will still do it.

You can not say that if you approach CCP with an idea and they consider it to be a method of RMT that you will banned. If anything you want to encourage people to go to CCP in the first instance to see if their idea is okay. In this instance it appears that this is the case.
If they don't get banned, all that shows is that if you can come up with a convoluted way to run RMT, then the rules don't apply to you and it doesn't matter that the act of RMTing itself is against the rules. That's really not the type of thing I would expect to see from a serious MMO developer.


I guess I shouldn't be surprised that people try to draw parallels between a sick psychopath and a clever businessman. Still, it's scrapping the bottom of the desperation barrel.

Mr Epeen Cool
Prince Kobol
#244 - 2014-08-18 18:35:07 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Which wasn't against the EULA/ToS. Technically, it still isn't. the EULA/ToS does not extend beyond the bounds of the game, and people post things ALL the time to humiliate people. Not to mention that the other people involved in producing and recording that (afaik, E1 didn't even record or post it) were not banned. He was banned after the fact, with even the victim calling for him to be left alone. THAT was a witch hunt. A guy RMTing, getting told to stop, then RMTing again is certainly not.


As far as CCP were concerned what he did was against the EULA/TOS. Sure they are vague and can be interpreted a number of different ways, but they are meant to be like that for a reason.

That is why he was not banned after the fact. It could only be after the fact if CCP changed the EULA/TOS in a direct response to what he did and as far as I am aware, they haven't.

I do agree that it was a witch hunt and as much as I dislike the guy, he should not of been banned. The right course of action would of been for CCP to speak to him and tell him that he could continue with his in game activities but not to post the recordings.

I must admit I do find it slightly ironic you talking about a witch hunt when this thread is also starting to be a witch hunt as well.

Lucas Kell wrote:
If they don't get banned, all that shows is that if you can come up with a convoluted way to run RMT, then the rules don't apply to you and it doesn't matter that the act of RMTing itself is against the rules. That's really not the type of thing I would expect to see from a serious MMO developer.


Once again, you can not ban somebody when you have given him permission. The part you keep missing is that if Somer is to be believed, he was given the okay by CCP. What you should of written is

"all that shows is that if you can come up with a convoluted way to run RMT and get CCP's permission"

It is total crap but it is 100% CCP's fault. I would be totally against any player receiving any type of punishment when CCP have given them clearance simply because you are setting one hell of a precedent.

I have never heard of any developer ever punishing a player when they have explicitly told them the action they are taking is okay.

Of course if this isn't the case and CCP did not give him the okay then they better had ban all of his account and confiscate everything on all those accounts including any wallet he has access to.
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#245 - 2014-08-18 18:35:48 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:

I guess I shouldn't be surprised that people try to draw parallels between a sick psychopath and a clever businessman. Still, it's scrapping the bottom of the desperation barrel.

Yes, Ero was a clever businessman and a talented show master. But it is a bit far fetched to call the SOMER guys psychopaths

Evil RatKid
Prince Kobol
#246 - 2014-08-18 18:42:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Prince Kobol
The thing is Mr Epeen, which ever way you swing it, its RMT. Sure it maybe a great idea, but it is still RMT.

Now apparently CCP do not think so which I completely disagree with.

The problem is it now it gives a license to anybody with a large amount of isk, of which there is plenty, to effectively RMT it all.

Its a dream come true to the likes of Goons, PL. NC.Dot and many individuals who have trillions of isk in their wallets to turn it into RL legitimately.

All a Major Alliance needs to do is set up a simple website for its members, become an affiliate and then earn RL money just like Somer Blink.
Dr Bluntman
Black Wind.
#247 - 2014-08-18 18:48:00 UTC
Gambling is bad anyway
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#248 - 2014-08-18 19:03:32 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
I guess I shouldn't be surprised that people try to draw parallels between a sick psychopath and a clever businessman. Still, it's scrapping the bottom of the desperation barrel.
Everyone that trolls people in a game is a sick psychopath. True story bro.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Cherry Yeyo
Doomheim
#249 - 2014-08-18 19:11:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Cherry Yeyo
Dr Bluntman wrote:
Gambling is bad anyway

Gambling addiction is a treatable disease just like diabetes, alcoholism or schizophrenia. The people that prey upon gamblers and their weaknesses are the scum of the earth. Talking about casinos and websites like Somer Blink. Shameful

.
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#250 - 2014-08-18 19:15:04 UTC
Quote:
My take? If CCP is actually going to allow players to offer bonus isk kickbacks to purchase PLEX from a given affiliate, then they should just throw the gates open and dispense with all the tortured casuistry - the new Somer 'plex credit' scheme is a fig leaf that everyone can see through. Also, this new policy should be available to every player, not a CCP-granted monopoly which Somer lucked into due to various devs enjoying isk gambling too much. I'm sure that the blocs could do a better job than Somer in a heartbeat, and we'd be absolutely delighted to get in on this action.

http://themittani.com/content/mittens-mailbox-blinky-battlemints

well that's sure interesting
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#251 - 2014-08-18 19:18:17 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
As far as CCP were concerned what he did was against the EULA/TOS. Sure they are vague and can be interpreted a number of different ways, but they are meant to be like that for a reason.

That is why he was not banned after the fact. It could only be after the fact if CCP changed the EULA/TOS in a direct response to what he did and as far as I am aware, they haven't.

I do agree that it was a witch hunt and as much as I dislike the guy, he should not of been banned. The right course of action would of been for CCP to speak to him and tell him that he could continue with his in game activities but not to post the recordings.

I must admit I do find it slightly ironic you talking about a witch hunt when this thread is also starting to be a witch hunt as well.
Well rules didn't exist, or more accurately, the rules explicitly excluded third party services. Then CCP made a post that it's no allowed, then he was banned... Seems pretty retroactive.

In this case, no matter what other facts there are, this is RMT. The only way it could be a witch hunt is if RMT was allowed, which clearly it isn't. Are you saying it is? Even is someone at CCP gave misinformation, the fact is still that RMT is against the rules.

Prince Kobol wrote:
Once again, you can not ban somebody when you have given him permission. The part you keep missing is that if Somer is to be believed, he was given the okay by CCP. What you should of written is
Sure you can. They can ban whoever they want. And I literally don;t care who said it was OK. It's RMT. That is simply not OK.

Prince Kobol wrote:
It is total crap but it is 100% CCP's fault.
I disagree. RMT is never OK. The end.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#252 - 2014-08-18 19:26:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Indahmawar Fazmarai
Chribba wrote:
No worries, even if CCP decides this is wrong and tells Somer to stop, I'm sure they'll give them some unique ships as a consolidation for lost revenue. I mean CCP can't let Somer go empty handed out of this, that would just be wrong.

/c


And this is exactly as low as CCP can fall to players' eyes.
Anslo
Scope Works
#253 - 2014-08-18 20:18:13 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Chribba wrote:
No worries, even if CCP decides this is wrong and tells Somer to stop, I'm sure they'll give them some unique ships as a consolidation for lost revenue. I mean CCP can't let Somer go empty handed out of this, that would just be wrong.

/c


And this is exactly as low as CCP can fall to players' eyes.


Confirming that **** is going down when Chribba is taking a jab. Holy crap Shocked

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Enaris Kerle
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#254 - 2014-08-18 20:23:28 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
I'll be meeting with a few departments within CCP this afternoon (UTC) then I'll come back to you this afternoon with some clear and concise answers.

Since apparently you weren't talking about the afternoon of August 18, which date should we expect?

Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm.
Anslo
Scope Works
#255 - 2014-08-18 20:24:41 UTC
Enaris Kerle wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
I'll be meeting with a few departments within CCP this afternoon (UTC) then I'll come back to you this afternoon with some clear and concise answers.

Since apparently you weren't talking about the afternoon of August 18, which date should we expect?


Why give a deadline for a response that'll be a rushed product when you can take your time to craft a logical response based on all the facts? I'd rather wait and get quality then rush just to get something.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Thatt Guy
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#256 - 2014-08-18 20:27:31 UTC
For the SECOND time now.....

We will see if CCP does more than talk this time around.

Haters gonna hate, Trolls gonna troll.
Enaris Kerle
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#257 - 2014-08-18 20:27:58 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Why give a deadline for a response that'll be a rushed product when you can take your time to craft a logical response based on all the facts? I'd rather wait and get quality then rush just to get something.

I'd rather get a quality response as well, but my experience from the Alliance Logo thread leads me to believe that it's more likely we'll get no response at all.

Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm.
Anslo
Scope Works
#258 - 2014-08-18 20:28:54 UTC
Enaris Kerle wrote:
Anslo wrote:
Why give a deadline for a response that'll be a rushed product when you can take your time to craft a logical response based on all the facts? I'd rather wait and get quality then rush just to get something.

I'd rather get a quality response as well, but my experience from the Alliance Logo thread leads me to believe that it's more likely we'll get no response at all.


I dunno dude vOv they said they're working on it, not much more they can rush. While CCP has issues responding to crap like this, I agree, Eve's player base can be pretty demanding at times. Unrealistically so.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
TheMercenaryKing
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#259 - 2014-08-18 20:29:18 UTC  |  Edited by: TheMercenaryKing
Anslo wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Chribba wrote:
No worries, even if CCP decides this is wrong and tells Somer to stop, I'm sure they'll give them some unique ships as a consolidation for lost revenue. I mean CCP can't let Somer go empty handed out of this, that would just be wrong.

/c


And this is exactly as low as CCP can fall to players' eyes.


Confirming that **** is going down when Chribba is taking a jab. Holy crap Shocked


CCP, you really needs to step up. Chribba just took a jab at you! That's like a Jedi saying someone deserved to be raped.

Honestly, I am looking for a new game, might buy a $40 ship in Star Citizen to see what it's like. Too much ****** up around here. I love Eve, but damn so much is just wrong and being boring on top does not help.

It is time to drop the "will not tell other players about issues", we want you guys to be open. we want to know why they are able to do what they do, we want to know why they get what they do. I want my free **** too!
Sion Kumitomo
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#260 - 2014-08-18 20:40:05 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Hey guys,

I'm just dropping a blue barred post in this thread, so that you know that we're not ignoring you.

I'm speaking with people internally to find out what's up with this, and myself and CCP Leeloo have already sat down this morning with the CSM for a preliminary meeting about what's gone on here.

I'll be meeting with a few departments within CCP this afternoon (UTC) then I'll come back to you this afternoon with some clear and concise answers.

Sorry for the silence thus far, but I was only made aware of this late last night.

I'll have more for you guys once I'm up to speed Smile

- F


Was community consulted about this at all ahead of time?

On twitter @siggonK